Toast Round 1 = St Kilda 85-102 Collingwood

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I’m hoping Daicos spends his whole career off HB because it would mean our midfield is absolutely stacked! I wasn’t referring to last year I was referring to the entirety of his career and whilst I don’t think Macrae is the solution right now he has shown more at both levels already.

Fair enough, I’m not going to bicker over who should be the 22nd player selected ( macrae wasn’t so that’s it.., time to put the head down) except to repeat that once you pick a young or fringe player you should give them a decent run at it if possible.

 

[Scodog10]

Fair enough, I’m not going to bicker over who should be the 20th player selected ( macrae wasn’t so that’s it.., time to put the head down) except to repeat that once you pick a young or fringe player you should give them a decent run at it if possible.

EFA. Bianco and Madgen are lower in the pecking order and whilst it’s a changes thread that’s designed to bicker over the last spots in the 22 I don’t see either of us conceding.

Edit: Sorry not to drag the discussion further, but I agree with the theory of giving young fringe guys an extended crack. Where I differ though is that it has to be on the back of some type of form. The one I immediately think of is Henry who wasn’t ready, went back, built into some form, returned to the seniors, received an extended crack despite being a little off the pace and is now starting to blossom.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

EFA. Bianco and Madgen are lower in the pecking order and whilst it’s a changes thread that’s designed to bicker over the last spots in the 22 I don’t see either of us conceding.

Happy to agree that we have different views on Tyler brown. To my mind he was underage in his first year, had some injury interruptions in his second and third, and lost most of last year. Plus no VFL due to Covid in his formative development years. Deserves a shot with a new coach and fresh approach.

At least we aren’t throwing petty insults at each other about salty tears and irony…..

 

[sr36]

No point in arguing with the sycophants that act like the club is incapable of making the wrong calls mate, you may as well be banging your head against a brick wall.

Don't think I've ever been called a sycophant before - I quite like it.

 

[magpies42]

'Chaos ball' does not require elite ball use, it requires outnumbering with and without ball. Notice how we closed space without it, that's a deliberate ploy.

This style is somewhat similar to 2018, swarm and spread. You would be right in saying we had better ball users then, but that was our system that enabled us to be a better team than the sum of its parts.

In my view the chaos ball is only used when you aren’t able to make a decision or if you’re outnumbered forward of the ball. In order to transition directly and efficiently you need elite kicking skills, I suspect the preferred option will be to hit a leading forward lace out and to enter the corridor with a kick to advantage.

The chaos ball is the back up option.

 

[sr36]

Totally agree, can anyone recall the last time we had a hungry small forward prior to Gini?....A guy called Peter Daicos is my guess.

Dids

 

[doppleganger]

Let’s have a football discussion on that point. Specifically what does time at the top level provide him beyond what we’ve seen already? He’s a guy that has the tempo because he looks fine when he get’s it, his shoulder injury (not one that requires extensive fitness work unlike Murphy’s will) was 10 months ago and he’s year 5. Year 5 midfielders don’t make it to year 6 or get a significant block of games without being named Brayden Sier…

What have we seen at top level?? Coming into 2022 TB only played 16 AFL games with some as medi sub in that too.

His first two years 2018-19 was well behind plenty of strong senior mids when we were playing deep in finals.

2020 the COVID year
2021 he popped his shoulder

And yes, agree that his physical traits the 193cm potential big clearance mid (silly early phyical comparison to a skinny Fyfe) who looks comfortable at the level will give him a few more chances.

Going to Macrae even though I don’t think he’s the solution right now he has shown more at both levels already. The problem for Macrae is the bar is very low up against T Brown who’s probably one of our worst performed midfielders at any level this past decade…

Hopefully, Fly just coming at it with a clean set of eyes.

If Fly and the coaches liked T.Brown's pre-season and have him currently slightly ahead of Macrae, it appears to be the case, then hopefully they give him a block of games at AFL level...his performance since Fly, Leppa and Bolts came to the club more important than those handful of games last year.

 

[doppleganger]

Dids

Medhurst was HUNGRY!!

 

[Apex36]

Don't think I've ever been called a sycophant before - I quite like it.

Since when are you in the ‘club can do no wrong’ camp? I’ve seen plenty of instances where you’ve questioned the wisdom of selection etc.

 

[Carringbush2010]

In my view the chaos ball is only used when you aren’t able to make a decision or if you’re outnumbered forward of the ball. In order to transition directly and efficiently you need elite kicking skills, I suspect the preferred option will be to hit a leading forward lace out and to enter the corridor with a kick to advantage.

The chaos ball is the back up option.

Dunno if you watched the game last night but we were intent on handball, zone defence and move it forward at speed when we had ball. To me the 'chaos ball' game was a deliberate ploy.

 

[legendstatus]

No irony, just immaturity on your behalf. Don’t like someone disagreeing with you, try your typically overly aggressive slap down and when that doesn’t work get personal. Just weak. Grow up.

He is right Apex you do like a good slap down


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Quicky]

production - not getting his hands on it enough. (7 disposals)
kicking - not using it well when he gets it, (missed some getable shots)
size/physically - not putting enough pressure on when they have the ball.

Bianco's not very quick either. My biggest knock is his decision making though. Doesn't look peripheral and is slow to take his kick. I did think his tackling pressure was good last night. Surprised me.

 

[Quicky]

I don’t count Madgen in my list of senior players who had almost games….because he’s a fringe player. He did ok and he’s more than adequate depth.

I was really concerned about Madgen's selection and while he had a few moments I thought he stood up for the most part.

 

[Bianconeri]

They have more information on which to base their decisions than we do so I’m guessing they get more right than us mug punters. We have a very different looking selection committee this year so happy to give them some time. We’re 1-0 at this stage so hard to knock their effort to date.

Happy to give them time as well I just don’t think the attitude of they must know better conducive to creating quality discussion on a forum where “mug punters“ discuss their opinions.

 

[sr36]

Since when are you in the ‘club can do no wrong’ camp? I’ve seen plenty of instances where you’ve questioned the wisdom of selection etc.

Sorry misread the thread. Thought you'd quoted a Sco comment to me about coaches making shit decisions

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Happy to give them time as well I just don’t think the attitude of they must know better conducive to creating quality discussion on a forum where “mug punters“ discuss their opinions.

Surely “ let the new coaching staff make their own decisions” a reasonable argument in a rational discussion, especially after just one game.

 

[Scodog10]

What have we seen at top level?? Coming into 2022 TB only played 16 AFL games with some as medi sub in that too.

His first two years 2018-19 was well behind plenty of strong senior mids when we were playing deep in finals.

2020 the COVID year
2021 he popped his shoulder

And yes, agree that his physical traits the 193cm potential big clearance mid (silly early phyical comparison to a skinny Fyfe) who looks comfortable at the level will give him a few more chances.

Hopefully, Fly just coming at it with a clean set of eyes.

If Fly and the coaches liked T.Brown's pre-season and have him currently slightly ahead of Macrae, it appears to be the case, then hopefully they give him a block of games at AFL level...his performance since Fly, Leppa and Bolts came to the club more important than those handful of games last year.

To answer your first question nowhere near enough to justify an extended run as a senior midfielder. I’m also confused on one hand we have everyone getting a clean slate and the other excuses for T Brown’s lack of development. Which is it? If he’s getting a clean slate then he’s judged only on performance which has been shit to this point of 2022 after 4 hitouts. If it’s the excuses then we go back to past performance which he doesn’t have.

To be clear if you read my comments in their entirety you would see that I’m not keen to see Macrae in the seniors and would prefer Callum>Tyler. I think Macrae is still a fair way off it, but in this context I referenced him only to highlight that despite more opportunities over an extended period of time T Brown has fallen short by comparison.

Sorry misread the thread. Thought you'd quoted a Sco comment to me about coaches making sh*t decisions

Keep me out of that stuff! Since the dearly loved Baltimore Jack wandered off into the distance I’ve only ever felt Spinny was sychophantic and it’s not a term I’d throw around. I think that often gets confused with people not wanting to drill down analytically so they leave that to the people employed to do it.

 

[doppleganger]

To answer your first question nowhere near enough. I’m also confused on one hand we have everyone getting a clean slate and the other excuses for T Brown’s lack of development. Which is it? If he’s getting a clean slate then he’s judged only on performance which has been sh*t to this point of 2022 after 4 hitouts. If it’s the excuses then we go back to past performance which he doesn’t have.

It is both.

There are reasons for lack of development and much AFL impact.

For mine would hope that Fly, Leppa, Bolts and the coaching and match committee staff gave the under exposed blokes a clean slate and are basing current evaluation on performance in the pre-season in its entirity to date.

To be clear if you read my comments in their entirety you would see that I’m not keen to see Macrae in the seniors and would prefer Callum>Tyler. I think Macrae is still a fair way off it, but in this context I referenced him only to highlight that despite more opportunities over an extended period of time T Brown has fallen short by comparison.

Cal...no thanks.

He has had what Ty hasnt to date, and that is a good consistent go at AFL level...60+ games now and he hasnt got the tricks to make it as anything but a scrapper at AFL level.

Ty and Macrae both bigger upside, and hopefully both played ahead of Cal....unless Cal suddenly starts getting 30+ at VFL level and demands a game on form

 

[grayza2018]

Great showing by the boys! Loved the game style, and the way we skipped out to that 6 goal lead. And then when headed, how we saw it out! Going to be a good ride this year I think, some ups and downs but a generally sunny outlook!

 

[Scodog10]

It is both.

There are reasons for lack of development and much AFL impact.

For mine would hope that Fly, Leppa, Bolts and the coaching and match committee staff gave the under exposed blokes a clean slate and are basing current evaluation on performance in the pre-season in its entirity to date.

Cal...no thanks.

He has had what Ty hasnt to date, and that is a good consistent go at AFL level...60+ games now and he hasnt got the tricks to make it as anything but a scrapper at AFL level.

Ty and Macrae both bigger upside, and hopefully both played ahead of Cal....unless Cal suddenly starts getting 30+ at VFL level and demands a game on form

Maybe get around a game or two and you might surprise yourself considering that’s exactly what he did in 2021

One things for sure it’s something we’ll never see from Tyler.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Happy to give them time as well I just don’t think the attitude of they must know better conducive to creating quality discussion on a forum where “mug punters“ discuss their opinions.

As I’d previously stated IMHO Macrae didn’t merit selection for the game against the Saints based on his preseason form thus far, and that there was nothing coming out of the limited VFL match reports or video to suggest that that had changed. But apparently stating that selectors agree with me isn’t conducive to creating quality discussion. Forgive me if I’m finding little of quality in the discussion suggesting Macrae has earned a senior game ahead of any of the 22 who played against the saints, or has subsequently done enough to usurp them, because there’s no evidence this year to support that.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Dunno if you watched the game last night but we were intent on handball, zone defence and move it forward at speed when we had ball. To me the 'chaos ball' game was a deliberate ploy.

Our kick to handball ratio was nearly 1-1 early. Improved slightly by games end but that’s extremely low. Not sure that’s sustainable.

 

[doppleganger]

Maybe get around a game or two and you might surprise yourself considering that’s exactly what he did in 2021

One things for sure it’s something we’ll never see from Tyler.

As I said, would hope Fly and the new coaching crew told the young / fringe blokes that it is a clean slate for them, 2020/21 should mean very little in terms of which developing fringe guys woukd be in Fly's best 22 for 2022.

Now that Ty was picked with a pretty healthy list, would be keen on seeing Ty be given a decent crack at it (he needs to come to the party too) as we havent seen enough of him at AFL level (IMHO).

Cal much more exposure at AFL, doesnt have tricks, is a scrapper who gives his all but vanilla. If he is banging the door down in the VFL, I would be fine with him being rewarded and brought into the AFL team again...but do we play Cal in rd2, nope.

 

[Bianconeri]

As I’d previously stated IMHO Macrae didn’t merit selection for the game against the Saints based on his preseason form thus far, and that there was nothing coming out of the limited VFL match reports or video to suggest that that had changed. But apparently stating that selectors agree with me isn’t conducive to creating quality discussion. Forgive me if I’m finding little of quality in the discussion suggesting Macrae has earned a senior game ahead of any of the 22 who played against the saints, or has subsequently done enough to usurp them, because there’s no evidence this year to support that.

It’s the snide remarks like “you know better than the selectors…” I take issue with. If everything devolved into the selectors did this so they must be right attitude then there would be no point to this forum.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Our kick to handball ratio was nearly 1-1 early. Improved slightly by games end but that’s extremely low. Not sure that’s sustainable.

Doesn't change the fact that the team is intent on 'chaos ball',Pendles and fly admitted as much.

Regardless if it's sustainable >now< is not the question, it's how we develop going forward.

And it doesn't change the intent regardless of kick handball ratio.