Autopsy Round 11, 2023: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[gringo2011]

Just about to settle in and watch the replay.

Main thing I'll be trying to figure out is how APPARENTLY we are so s***, how so many of our players are totally useless, how the game plan is shot, how come the coaching staff can't the obvious solutions that everyone on here can see and that the administration from the President down are totally incompetent and yet



and yet




and yet



we were 20 points up early in the last and dropped mark away from pretty much sealing the game


and yet


we are 5th on the ladder sitting 7/4 and with a very healthy %.

No need to patronise everyone. We were properly uncompetitive against a bottom 4 side and never really tried, that score line flattered the reality of how well they played compared to us.

You are only as good as your last game and that was a humiliating capitulation. We looked good last year too at the same point but the coach was sacked by the end of the year.

 

[gringo2011]

Mind boggles when they say Windhager needs to work on some things but senior players can go weeks of poor performances. Meanwhile Hawthorn, Suns, Kangas etc are pumping AFL games into high end young talented mids

They don't have the conviction to drop Seb because he is in the leadership group and probably a good on field leader with his voice because Steele doesn't say anything. We desperately need a new look midfield. Our midfield have cooked Brett Ratten and they will cook you too RTB if you dont have some balls.

They are in a different development period to us. If we all of a sudden dropped out of the finals race playing kids most fans would crack it.

 

[StCicatriz]

People can't be unhappy with the body of work for half a season. It's well beyond anything we had hoped for

 

[EddieMurphy]

No need to patronise everyone. We were properly uncompetitive against a bottom 4 side and never really tried, that score line flattered the reality of how well they played compared to us.

You are only as good as your last game and that was a humiliating capitulation. We looked good last year too at the same point but the coach was sacked by the end of the year.

Surprised you bothered to reply, that poster is in lala land on their own.

 

[Remboy]

Just about to settle in and watch the replay.

Main thing I'll be trying to figure out is how APPARENTLY we are so s***, how so many of our players are totally useless, how the game plan is shot, how come the coaching staff can't the obvious solutions that everyone on here can see and that the administration from the President down are totally incompetent and yet



and yet




and yet



we were 20 points up early in the last and dropped mark away from pretty much sealing the game


and yet


we are 5th on the ladder sitting 7/4 and with a very healthy %.

It's a Festivus miracle!

 

[pebblesofsand]

No need to patronise everyone. We were properly uncompetitive against a bottom 4 side and never really tried, that score line flattered the reality of how well they played compared to us.

You are only as good as your last game and that was a humiliating capitulation. We looked good last year too at the same point but the coach was sacked by the end of the year.

Not patronising - just pointing out that apparently we played really poorly AND YET we were still 20 points up early in the last.

People think there's a vast gulf between the teams - there isn't.

Don't bring maximum effort to every game then you are trouble - ask Melb, Geelong and Doggies.

My take on the season so far - we over trained in the pre season - cost a lot in injuries but brought a fitness level ahead of other teams. They are now catching up and we are struggling just at a time when we are starting to chop and change our squad with players coming back and others struggling with injuries.

Bye has come at the perfect time for us because we aren't s***.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Surprised you bothered to reply, that poster is in lala land on their own.

I love la la land - 5th on the ladder with 7 wins and 117 %.

Yet apparently we're totally useless team.

Go figure!!!!

 

[Simon Templar]

Kick it to Sicily,​

Kick it to Sicily​

Kick it to Sicily​

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results​

 

[gringo2011]

Not patronising - just pointing out that apparently we played really poorly AND YET we were still 20 points up early in the last.

People think there's a vast gulf between the teams - there isn't.

Don't bring maximum effort to every game then you are trouble - ask Melb, Geelong and Doggies.

My take on the season so far - we over trained in the pre season - cost a lot in injuries but brought a fitness level ahead of other teams. They are now catching up and we are struggling just at a time when we are starting to chop and change our squad with players coming back and others struggling with injuries.

Bye has come at the perfect time for us because we aren't s***.

Like bashing a sleeping homeless guy, had him nearly knocked out but he jumped up and king hit us. Not sure if it's a point of pride.

 

[gringo2011]

I love la la land - 5th on the ladder with 7 wins and 117 %.

Yet apparently we're totally useless team.

Go figure!!!!

I think we all know who didn't actually have to sit through the game in a cold Melbourne winter..... easy to say sitting around a pool with an aperol spritz and a no recurring visions of that shit sandwich match.

 

[PostmanBish]

Caminiti works like a small with his pressure. I don't look at them either but just from attending games I'd say that's how he plays.

He definitely tries to apply pressure, and has a great burst of speed ... most talls would have let that Gresh snap fall short and hope for the bounce to be kind, but he put the jets on to mark and make it a certainty. Impressive ... I really can't wait to see how he goes after a proper pre-season.

Also, in the cold light of day, I think we'll ultimately learn more from having lost that game, than if we'd scrambled the win - gives the team a lot to think about, and work on over the next couple of weeks, and we can hope they will come out a bit healthier (Steele, Owens, Membrey etc.) and keen to slay the SGC demons.

 

[Rockhead]

Pathetic effort from the mids.

Kicked it to Sicily all day.

Unfortunately we have c grade mids and no ruckman... we need a paddy ryder type...Marshall is not a ruckman ; has no ruck craft

 

[Joffaboy]

People can't be unhappy with the body of work for half a season. It's well beyond anything we had hoped for

In context yes, but considering the great start, and two out of the past three games have been very poor and uncompetitive, 7-4 is a bad return after 4-0 and the way we have started to play.

Yesterday was extremely worrying watching live. Early in the season we covered the switch and spread easily. Yesterday, the Hawks always seemed to have the extra man on the fat side, and would win the ball and run it from defensive 50 to attacking fifty without any pressure.

I lost count of the easy chest mark the Hawks took in forward fifty. Yes bad kicking is bad football, but if Hawks had have kicked straight, we would have been beaten by 6 goals.
Soundly beaten, they looked like a top 8 team and we looked bottom four. You could feel the lack of energy from the start, the porous midfield, the lack of contest around the ball.
As bad as anything we put up under Richo or Ratts. Extremely worrying. Another false dawn.

 

[The_Steadier]

What's happened to our run and gun?

Non *ing existent

Very true.
That's the most glaring thing for me.

In the first month or so we we're doing as ross had them doing in preseason- which is getting rid of the ball within 3 seconds.

(Basically what hawthorn did all day)

Haven't seen that in at least a month.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Someone noticed on the broadcast they when Impey kicked a behind with 12.25 to go in the last they added the behind to St Kilda's score.
Im guessing they corrected it sometime after.

 

[luca77]

Someone noticed on the broadcast they when Impey kicked a behind with 12.25 to go in the last they added the behind to St Kilda's score.
Im guessing they corrected it sometime after.

Yeah, I noticed on my rewatch. Was skipping to our scores and took 3 tries before I realised we didn't score at that time. I think they added a point to both teams when the hawks scored a behind. Not sure if/when it was corrected.

 

[Ads734]

AAlso is Ollie Hotten a goal kicking mid?

Yes most Definitely. Was my second favourite player in the draft after Pou. Has blistering speed and power and good overhead. He was building towards the end of last year. Very excited to see what spark he can add. Think Shuey.

 

[StFly]

Not patronising - just pointing out that apparently we played really poorly AND YET we were still 20 points up early in the last.

People think there's a vast gulf between the teams - there isn't.

Don't bring maximum effort to every game then you are trouble - ask Melb, Geelong and Doggies.

My take on the season so far - we over trained in the pre season - cost a lot in injuries but brought a fitness level ahead of other teams. They are now catching up and we are struggling just at a time when we are starting to chop and change our squad with players coming back and others struggling with injuries.

Bye has come at the perfect time for us because we aren't s***.

We did the Port and Essendon thing of fast movements and never second guessing both ways, as if you have support around you then you can always work out a solution regardless of what is faced. Early doors this blitzes teams as they just don't have the body of work to unify and combat it so you can isolate a fair bit which is why teams generally settle around round 7 into a niche of how their seasons will go.

We did play poorly in this match, we half chased, few didn't even bother to keep workrate up ahead of the ball, we regressed to just expectations that moving away from what we did previously would be enough to surpass as long and strong, and it almost was until it wasn't.

Is a theme with us though, we get into positions where we can stand on our own two feet and state we demand this ladder position, come up against a battler or mid table operator that haven't figured things out yet and almost immediately default to "I don't want tat responsibility, lets rely on results". Will be telling about how mentally strong this team is if after the bye they revert to kind and we settle at battling for 8th at the end and relying on other results or not.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

Just on Higgins.I haven’t been to a game this year to see live, but when he kicks a goal no one seems to go to him and and get around him .
Is he on the nose within the group , or am I limited from the small screen ?

 

[jwikked]

Just on Higgins.I haven’t been to a game this year to see live, but when he kicks a goal no one seems to go to him and and get around him .
Is he on the nose within the group , or am I limited from the small screen ?

It was similar last year. It was awful to watch him kick a ripper goal that we sorely needed and not one player looked excited

 

[Diehard Saint]

And it’s the same senior and leadership players that went missing last year

Ben Dixon on First Crack now - now I don’t really like him, but he was spot on here…
where are our vocal leaders? There are kids out there who need direction. RTB can’t be out there during playing time. We have none. No one out there yelling, pointing, guiding.

I mean, just what has BJ been teaching them?

 

[ScrappyDo]

Interesting 5 of tge 8 games this week were upsets. Not that the Saints weren't rubbish bit maybe something in the air.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Phillipou was attending centre square bounces

What game were you watching??

Centre bounce attendances by team (mids only)

Saints (9 centre clearances for mids)

18: Steele (0 centre clearances)
17: Sinclair (2)
16: Crouch (4), Ross (0)
15: Gresham (3)
...
1: Clark (0), Phillipou (0)

Hawks (7 centre clearances for mids)

24: Nash (0)
23:
22: Day (2)
21:
20:
19: Newcombe (3)
18:
17:
16:
15: Worpel (2)
...
4: Mackenzie (0)


So it's interesting, we actually ran more numbers through there than they did. They had a four man rotation and we had five, and both had just a handful for others.

Not sure what conclusion to draw from that but imo that's where our problems start so it needs to get fixed.

 

[Premium]

Didn’t watch yesterday but it’s been evident that the list on the whole lacks dynamism and we’re somewhat soft.

The wheels fell off last year when we lost d-Mac and we look a completely different outfit without Mitchito.

Our biggest issue right now is our midfield. Not one of them is a match winner.

Club needs to make the call on Seb & start playing Owens, Phillipou and Windhager more.

I’d be inclined to do the same with Crouch and give Bytel his minutes but for Crouch’s solid numbers this year.

Out of our 3 experienced midfielders - Steele , Crouch and Ross - only Crouch is the only one that can say has been consistent.
Steele is a shadow of his former self and Ross is really just filling the numbers.
I would keep Crouch as the lead mid and have Owens , Windhager the other main mids , Steele rotates and if he gets his mojo back - well he becomes the midfield leader , so Steele needs to produce more to get his mantle back as our best player because atm he is very average.
In saying this Sinclair is class and could easily transition to be our best potent midfielder but it all comes down to the selectors and if they have the balls to drop a couple of the midfield mainstays that have been our Achilles heal for years now.
We all know if you can't win the ball out of the middle your chances of winning against anyone is slim.
Hawthorn proved this.

I'm devastated how poorly Steele has been playing , what has happened to him - he seems to be no where near him old self , is there any reason for it - is there conflict and it has unsettled him I don't know and Gresham is not showing enough and just looks like a over rated player , Membery is battling to get a kick in the 2s and Billings is no where near knocking the door down to get a game.

To me we have to bite the bullet and play Owens as a midfielder and not as a ruck , Windhager comes straight in to replace Ross - time to rattle the cage.

We have the players to cause a dent in the finals but if they don't sort out our midfield we will be lucky to stay in the 8.

The hunger and contested work of Owens and Windhager should totally change our midfield.

 

[Premium]

What game were you watching??

The guys on the outside killed us Amon and Impey - some how they were getting the ball and they used it well.