Round 12 Carlton V Hawthorn With Live Chat

[Spook]

Has half the frees against average as Lance Franklin. Yet another cheap shot with no substance. Just buying into the media crap because you don't want to look it up for yourself. It was a desperate tackle, that's all. He never tried to bury the bloke

Are you serious? Do you really think Waite didn't try to bury him? FFS mate, I liked your passion but if you honestly think that you are seriously one f'ing eyed

 

[romeoh]

Yeah 'great' was probably not the best choice of words but Im comfortable with it. The point stands.

Care to point out which hawthorn performance this year you thought was worse?

If you win 3 flags in the next 5 years you can start talking 'great' chunky!
Ofcourse I can't tell you when Hawks have been worse-don't see that much of you, you're not that interesting old chap. The point is that I see that claim made a fair bit and on the evidence in front of me, it is rarely true. Sometimes teams don't play their best footy for whatever reason, but more often than not, their play is not good becasue the opposition makes them look less good. Carlton were very good at some points last night, then very ordianary-so did they drop off or did Hawks lift? Or bit of both? Do you think Carlton played their best football-because I doubt it on what I saw.
And it it is disrespectful to your opposition.
.

 

[Hodge is God]

LOL re 'worst game' -'the last refuge of the scoundrel!'
ps tickets on self or what-Hawks are a very good team, not yet convinced you have the right to classify yourself as 'great'. Let's see over the next couple of years if you can justify such a claim?

This year we are 10-1.

I, at risk of being arrogant, cocky etc, consider Hawthrn a great team at the moment. And we haven't been playing that good a footy.

The only games I have been impressed with has been the Swans and the Eagles game.

If players like Lewis, Burgoyne, Sewell and to a lesser extent Smith play like we know they can , Hawthorn will be a much better team heading into the pointy end of the season.

 

[QS]

Aside from a couple of ludicrous HTB decisions, not much issue with the frees paid against us, more the blatant ones not paid against Hawthorn IMO. Apparently you can just drop the ball while being tackled now

Those were rife all night, but I agree they are annoying. You may go "eagles fan hurr hurr" but we hardly get paid any of them either. I think they have some directive to provide the players with a large window of prior opportunity in that it must be blatant. Who knows.

 

[laminex]

lake can't chase.

He don't need to the umps took care of how the game was going to finish.

 

[laminex]

I didn't know Jesus played for Carlton...

Got him via father son rule.

 

[laminex]

Those were rife all night, but I agree they are annoying. You may go "eagles fan hurr hurr" but we hardly get paid any of them either. I think they have some directive to provide the players with a large window of prior opportunity in that it must be blatant. Who knows.

I noticed this when we played Collingwood if you watch them they just throw the ball forward at ever chance, not having a go at them because they have worked it out and play it smart. the Hawks last night played rugby but all were forward passes

 

[laminex]

Carlton back in front. Mr Chamberlain, Mr Nicholls. It's your time to shine!

they will get the 3 and 2 votes brownlow night for sure.

 

[QS]

I noticed this when we played Collingwood if you watch them they just throw the ball forward at ever chance, not having a go at them because they have worked it out and play it smart. the Hawks last night played rugby but all were forward passes

To be honest, I don't really blame the umpires. There is no consistency with rules, interpretation from year to year.. it must be bloody difficult, what would have been HTB or a throw in 2012 is no longer in 2013. I think the issue is higher up but that discussion is beyond the scope of this thread methinks.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Are you serious? Do you really think Waite didn't try to bury him? FFS mate, I liked your passion but if you honestly think that you are seriously one f'ing eyed

No, I think he tackled him with momentum to try to affect the kick and that momentum caused Waite's body to go over his upper body and push it into the ground. Given where it happened and the desperation involved to reach him, I'm not sure how you can categorically say his intent was to bury him. The result does not necessarily equate to the intent.

I do appreciate your tone though. Conducive to discussion and all that.

 

[Monkey King]

LOOK! Hawks were flat, Carlton played a ripper game, but you still lost /off!

Yes yes yes. A lot of teams that play Carlton seem to have been "flat" this season. And despite having never put 4 quarters together or even having their players all fire together, apparently Carlton play out of their skins every week. It's a common theme this season from the supporters of the teams we play. Must be some eerie coincidence

 

[Monkey King]

Losing Murphy obviously hurt but Carlton are a middle of the road, plodding team who played with real grunt tonight. The fact it felt they were killing it but were never more than 3 goals up says it all.

A bit of misnomer for mine. We've played the top 2 teams and have not lost any match by more than 3 goals. Until the umps got involved last night we had your measure. I wonder if we perform as well against the Swans how this opinion will be sustainable; or I guess they will have just had an off night like the rest of the top 4 teams we've played.

As a Hawks fan who has seen every game, it was the worst they have played this year.

Carlton have a tendency to induce opposition teams into this state. I wonder what that's all about

 

[Brown Bottle]

No, I think he tackled him with momentum to try to affect the kick and that momentum caused Waite's body to go over his upper body and push it into the ground. Given where it happened and the desperation involved to reach him, I'm not sure how you can categorically say his intent was to bury him. The result does not necessarily equate to the intent.

Have to say it looked intentional to me. Made me lol. Poor old Jarrod... he just does seemingly dumb things when you can least afford for him to.

 

[laminex]

To be honest, I don't really blame the umpires. There is no consistency with rules, interpretation from year to year.. it must be bloody difficult, what would have been HTB or a throw in 2012 is no longer in 2013. I think the issue is higher up but that discussion is beyond the scope of this thread methinks.

If i was coach of the umps i would say watch last Fridays game and jst say this is how you umpire, you are not part of the show. Razor mouth of again and your out the ****ing door.

 

[laminex]

Hang on Hawks

Oh you held on so did your runners the umps and hodge who should miss the rest of the year for 70's style game play.

 

[laminex]

Have to say it looked intentional to me. Made me lol. Poor old Jarrod... he just does seemingly dumb things when you can least afford for him to.

He does and he's a goose but i really didn't mind what he did. it was never a down field free.

 

[Spook]

No, I think he tackled him with momentum to try to affect the kick and that momentum caused Waite's body to go over his upper body and push it into the ground. Given where it happened and the desperation involved to reach him, I'm not sure how you can categorically say his intent was to bury him. The result does not necessarily equate to the intent.

I do appreciate your tone though. Conducive to discussion and all that.

I just watched it again, 2 motion tackle; first parts as you say was his momentum and desperation, second part was him drive him into the ground and landed on his head after he kicked it. If you can't see that, I am flabbergasted.

 

[bourbons]

To be honest, I don't really blame the umpires. There is no consistency with rules, interpretation from year to year.. it must be bloody difficult, what would have been HTB or a throw in 2012 is no longer in 2013. I think the issue is higher up but that discussion is beyond the scope of this thread methinks.

Agree on HTB, they've royally fooked up that interpretation and made it very hard for them to umpire it consistently. The relaxing of the throw or incorrect disposal is unforgiveable though, as far as I know there's been no directive to alter the way that is called? Maybe being caused by the modern general spirit of continuous play and keeping the ball moving.

Its just wrong though. Not only last night - its my number 1 umpiring whinge whenever I watch footy involving any team. If a bloke has prior opportunity, is tackled and just drops it, or attempts to handball or kick but doesn't make contact, that is a free every time, pay it FFS. Probably the most black and white decision our game has yet they continually let it go. Bull droppings.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I just watched it again, 2 motion tackle; first parts as you say was his momentum and desperation, second part was him drive him into the ground and landed on his head after he kicked it. If you can't see that, I am flabbergasted.

Yes he rolled over his head. That doesn't mean that is what he intended to do. He had a fair bit of momentum behind him and you expect that momentum to stop as soon as he reaches him? He also had to tackle him hard enough to affect the kick. Surely you can recognise the state of the play and the need for that desperation, rather than a premeditated attempt to hurt a player late in the match. Did he flop down on his head when he had another option? Did he place hands on the back of the head and push down aggressively? Did he have another option given the ground he had to make up and the situation of the game?

Happy to disagree and move on.

 

[Spook]

Yes he rolled over his head. That doesn't mean that is what he intended to do. He had a fair bit of momentum behind him and you expect that momentum to stop as soon as he reaches him? He also had to tackle him hard enough to affect the kick. Surely you can recognise the state of the play and the need for that desperation, rather than a premeditated attempt to hurt a player late in the match. Did he flop down on his head when he had another option? Did he place hands on the back of the head and push down aggressively? Did he have another option given the ground he had to make up and the situation of the game?

Happy to disagree and move on.

Yes he did have another option: don't go on with the tackle after Duryea kicked the ball. When you normally tackle a like who is in the act of kicking the ball you roll them back as the kickers momentum is leaning back, but Waite decided to lift his own feet up and let his momentum land right in his back and head.

Also, what does the "situation of the game" have to do with it? You should be at your most intense hunting to tackle from the 1 sec mark until the final siren....... Might say something a Waite as he can't control him self..... There is controlled aggression and not controlled.... Example is Hodge; controlled when trying to pick up the ball vs Murphy then un controlled when he got Henderson with an elbow, which he will get a week for.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yes he did have another option: don't go on with the tackle after Duryea kicked the ball. When you normally tackle a like who is in the act of kicking the ball you roll them back as the kickers momentum is leaning back, but Waite decided to lift his own feet up and let his momentum land right in his back and head.

Did he see the ball go and could he stop? No doubt he was set to make a forceful tackle. The game was hot, the situation intense, the ramifications great, and the Hawks were heading deep inside 50. Asking a lot for a player to back off when everybody was throwing themselves all over the place in that last quarter. It was a willing contest and kudos to both sides. Unfortunately there were casualties.

 

[romeoh]

This year we are 10-1.

I, at risk of being arrogant, cocky etc, consider Hawthrn a great team at the moment. And we haven't been playing that good a footy.

The only games I have been impressed with has been the Swans and the Eagles game.

If players like Lewis, Burgoyne, Sewell and to a lesser extent Smith play like we know they can , Hawthorn will be a much better team heading into the pointy end of the season.

Hawks are certainly a very good team and may prove to be 'great' but yr kidding yourself if you think you are there yet.
Geelong is also 10-1 and I don't consider our team to be great, and yes they can also play a lot better, and even should they win the flag I might only see them as vg. The current Geelong team is not of the calibre of the 2007 one- a different and evolvong team that may also prove to be great. But hold yr fire on these teams I would have thought.
Maybe we are both 10-1 because of the weaknesses in the opposition. If you go below the top 4, it does drop off.
Perhaps our definitions of greatness vary?

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

..lost the game, but i think blues still showed some insight into how to play vs hawks, better teams than ours have taken note.. ..as hawks likewise would have seen that they need to try harder to not allow opposition to dictate a more man on man style of footy against them..

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Carlton have a tendency to induce opposition teams into this state. I wonder what that's all about

Dont be so sensitive. I never said the poor performance was not due to Carlton's rabid pressure. All I said was it was hawthorns worst performance.

Full credit to Carlton, a better side with more polish would of won.

 

[QS]

If i was coach of the umps i would say watch last Fridays game and jst say this is how you umpire, you are not part of the show. Razor mouth of again and your out the ******* door.

Problem is then they run the risk of not paying legitimate free kicks and then having criticism levelled at them for that... the rules need to just stay the same, stop changing them to change the game; it's great as it was a few years back.