Autopsy Round 15: Brisbane 42-34 Collingwood

[Apples]

Dear jathanas
I don't want to labour the point, but I don't like being misrepresented.
My first post in replay to to you:
"When even moderators can make really disappointing comments like these about Phillips, then perhaps I should remind myself to stay away from here after a loss. Embarrassment to the jumper? You've played how many for Collingwood? That's really disappointing and you should be embarrassed."
And later:
"Phillips had a poor one, and he's had plenty this year. He should have been dropped weeks ago and maybe would have been, but for a truckload of injuries to deal with..........
I stand by my opinion that suggesting Phillips was a disgrace to the jumper was completely unnecessary and yes, forgive my surprise that a moderator would make such an appalling comment. I stand by my comments too."

I did not suggest that moderators can't voice opinions obviously; you're perfectly entitled to post what you want. Mods have a thankless job and not many would want it. It's not that I think a Moderator shouldn't make comments, but that I don't think anybody should make comments like that. Embarrassment to the jumper. Way over the top in my opinion. That a moderator said it, somehow disappointed me more.
Neither did I pounce like a "morality vulture" as somebody else suggested, and that's obvious by reading the above.

That should clear it up. We agree to disagree. Thank you for your efforts on our behalf, and that goes to all of the Mods.

 

[BEEG]

Grundy has to be one of the most ineffective players on 900k plus per year that you'll ever see.

Moore pull your head in when kicking out of the backline, feels like he was a very good kick and as the season has gone on has become average.

Stevo dead set he might be traded because he doesn't have a crack and is coming across as soft.

Brown and Phillips did not help our chances.

Miocheck I will let you off but you could possibly have cost us the game.

Cox is trying but awful.

We might not be a chance this year but I tell you this we really could have went close with a forward and some luck with injuries.

 

[sr36]

Faz was inconsistent but always gave a contest never once thought of him as soft and Leon was Mercurial and would go missing but again was not soft no way. Stevo really only puts in a bare minimum of effort if not in a contest and as for getting a hard ball forget about it. It’s not just me saying it look at Bucks comments about him this year.

Did you see the early years of Neon Leon?

 

[sr36]

Should they rest him? Thats what they get paid the big bucks for....making those decisions. Will they? Probably not.

Just a sidebar....just imaging the melts by some folk in here if Grundy (you know the richest man in the world) was rested!!!
Some of the vultures in here would be demanding he plays every minute of every game and dominates every other ruckman, simply because he got a contract!

I think he hurt his knee in the second quarter of the Richmond game. And neither he or we have fully recovered since.

My money is on him going in for surgery at the end of the year and that a rest isn't going to make a difference.

All guesses on my behalf.

 

[Finnishpie]

Did you see the early years of Neon Leon?

Yep SR. He wasn’t soft. you forget how, especially in Those days when you had To stay in the forward line a lot more, it could be a graveyard. He always had good games and quiet ones. As a forward. That was just something he had as a forward. When he played in the middle for a year, he was excellent, then again as a half back.

 

[Finnishpie]

Faz was inconsistent but always gave a contest never once thought of him as soft and Leon was Mercurial and would go missing but again was not soft no way. Stevo really only puts in a bare minimum of effort if not in a contest and as for getting a hard ball forget about it. It’s not just me saying it look at Bucks comments about him this year.

Exactly.

and I have no idea what to do with Stephenson. Can he play as a defender In the scratch matches? His runs on the wing this year have been unspectacula.

 

[Finnishpie]

Leon routinely disappeared when it mattered in the finals, which combined with his elite skill made him either jaw-dropping or maddening

Not every final. He played a few good ones. Even in that last GF he was okay (apart from letting Varcoe get that first goal, but he was backing himself to get the ball so I guess I can see how it happened). It is true that only once did he reach the elite level that he often did in the home and away though.

 

[Finnishpie]

To be fair Phillips is making it pretty hard not to be.

He's such an epic panic merchant who so frequently sells team mates into more trouble than he was in nowadays that he's an absolute liability - and that's not even accounting for his astounding lack of defensive anything in a team ethos that's supposed to be built on defensive pressure.

Virtually useless in any sort of contest and now mostly useless in uncontested situations - is there anyone who can remember a Phillips' possession making them think "wow that was a really nice bit of play from him there"?

Bloke needs to rediscover some of that 2018 form he has been dining out on for the past coupe of years in a big hurry, or it's not going to work out well for him (or the club).

I met the bloke at training last year and he was really nice. I’ll never be happy he’s injured.

AS a player, he is suited to playing as a wingman in a fullength game, when his only elite attribute - running - really makes itself felt. The changes this year, shortened game, and his move to half-forward (what?!?) have removed what he does best And highlighted his weaknesses.

 

[Finnishpie]

Leon routinely disappeared when it mattered in the finals, which combined with his elite skill made him either jaw-dropping or maddening

just as an example. In 2011, in the two finals before the GF, his stats were:

In order, Goals, behinds, kicks, handballs, disposals, jumper number.

Qualifying Final	West Coast	W	0	0	23	10	3	33	1	View match >
Preliminary Final	Hawthorn	W	1	0	21	2	2	23	1	View match

 

[gouki88]

Not every final. He played a few good ones. Even in that last GF he was okay (apart from letting Varcoe get that first goal, but he was backing himself to get the ball so I guess I can see how it happened). It is true that only once did he reach the elite level that he often did in the home and away though.

Yeah, that's more the point - he was almost never the finals performer that he could and should have been

 

[partypie]

I met the bloke at training last year and he was really nice. I’ll never be happy he’s injured.

AS a player, he is suited to playing as a wingman in a fullength game, when his only elite attribute - running - really makes itself felt. The changes this year, shortened game, and his move to half-forward (what?!?) have removed what he does best And highlighted his weaknesses.

Don't get me wrong - I don't wish injury on any player either and I was more playing devil's. advocate there.

The point I was trying to make is that when a coach and a selection committee stubbornly persist with something that is clearly not working then sometimes it requires another catalyst to make them look at other options.

Personally I'm hoping that during Flippa's time on the sidelines we find another "solution" for a high half forward and he can slot back into the link man role on a wing that he does do well. Daicos running up and down one wing and Flippa running up and down on the other all day would work for me.

I see Tom's predicament as being symptomatic of our coaches and game plan stifling players a little and pulling them away from what they are good at - players like Flippa, Stevo and WHE are struggling to make an impact now and a lot of our boys now don't seem to be play with the freedom and energy they were a couple of years ago.

It's well past time Buckley and co moved on from their mindset of "defense is the primary focus and hopefully scoring will take care of itself enough for us to win" and started focusing more on what our players actually bring to the table offensively and how we can leverage those points of difference better.

 

[No SPIN]

So your point is what? Next time we won't make mistakes and we will beat them? We lost and we did so convincingly. There is no reason why we will not do much the same again. They smashed us with 5 goals in one quarter and we butchered almost every delivery into the forward 50 and our forwards were also unimpressive. We will not finish top 4 and our chances of premiership success this year have been significantly affected by this loss. Let's not forget we had momentum going into this game generated from our second half against the Blues and felt we were once again re surging as a team. Instead we were soundly defeated. I wish I could see the silver lining to the cloud but I can't.

I’m tipping that Fagan did not think they beat us either “convincingly” or “soundly“. So you’re way off the mark.
He’d be thinking they got lucky.

 

[Finnishpie]

Yeah, that's more the point - he was almost never the finals performer that he could and should have been

totally agree with that!

 

[foreigner]

JUST REMEMBERED MIHOCEK’ DROPPED MARK AND I WANT TO CRY

If he could have been a bit more terrible and not touch the ball at all, it would have been a goal

 

[soreplums]

They kicked four goals from direct turnovers, three of which were between 20-40m of their goal.

 

[loki04]

Defensive coaching we are exceptional.

We outplayed a premiership fancy on their own dung heap.

Stupid errors in Q2 cost us a win.

Put DeGoey up forward for a bit of a spark and we can challenge any team.

Everythings always about defense, even when we lose games because we can't score.
Well at least we kept them scoreless in 2 quarters some how consoles you?

I remember when only shit sides flooded in early 2000s.

 

[manicpie]

We have so many deficiencies in our team atm, the only thing that excited me was everytime Daicos and Quaynor got the ball I felt confident that they would do something creative. I would love to see the both of them play in the middle at centre bouncers so they can learn their craft there for the remaining matches. Nothing to lose and everything to gain

 

[stormskye]

Everythings always about defense, even when we lose games because we can't score.
Well at least we kept them scoreless in 2 quarters some how consoles you?

I remember when only sh*t sides flooded in early 2000s.

Our game plan is defence and possession at ALL cost. Instead of kicking to a contest our coaching is handball the ball 5 times, hot potato maintain possession. It doesn’t work. Creates pressure and leads to turnovers in our back half. Its horrible football, and the reason we are playing so poorly. the good teams take the game on and kick long, they don’t overuse the ball by hand.

 

[Darkyprotector]

I think he hurt his knee in the second quarter of the Richmond game. And neither he or we have fully recovered since.

My money is on him going in for surgery at the end of the year and that a rest isn't going to make a difference.

All guesses on my behalf.

My bet is with so much time between round 1 and round 2 he's been found out
Gotta love how the opposition sharks the tap at his feet time after time
Gotta love how they now he movable in the defensive 50 conceding goals and free kicks
Amateur hour

 

[Darkyprotector]

They kicked four goals from direct turnovers, three of which were between 20-40m of their goal.

Yep
And apparently crisp and noble we're our best

 

[jathanas]

Thank you Apples, we agree to disagree on Flippa.

I was not happy that my words upset you, because you are one of our most valuable and respectful posters.

Peace mate.

Dear jathanas
I don't want to labour the point, but I don't like being misrepresented.
My first post in replay to to you:
"When even moderators can make really disappointing comments like these about Phillips, then perhaps I should remind myself to stay away from here after a loss. Embarrassment to the jumper? You've played how many for Collingwood? That's really disappointing and you should be embarrassed."
And later:
"Phillips had a poor one, and he's had plenty this year. He should have been dropped weeks ago and maybe would have been, but for a truckload of injuries to deal with..........
I stand by my opinion that suggesting Phillips was a disgrace to the jumper was completely unnecessary and yes, forgive my surprise that a moderator would make such an appalling comment. I stand by my comments too."

I did not suggest that moderators can't voice opinions obviously; you're perfectly entitled to post what you want. Mods have a thankless job and not many would want it. It's not that I think a Moderator shouldn't make comments, but that I don't think anybody should make comments like that. Embarrassment to the jumper. Way over the top in my opinion. That a moderator said it, somehow disappointed me more.
Neither did I pounce like a "morality vulture" as somebody else suggested, and that's obvious by reading the above.

That should clear it up. We agree to disagree. Thank you for your efforts on our behalf, and that goes to all of the Mods.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Teams seem to have perfected the process of getting a defender between a forward and the incoming footy allowing a team mate to take what all too often ends up being an uncontested mark. Not just against Cox, it’s league wide. I’m not sure why forwards aren’t shoving the defender with force into their team mate. If it’s going to be a turnover anyway then at least send the message to the defender what will happen whenever he does that.

Once upon a time
You got smashed if you filled a hole

Hence why we need some hardness up forward
Cox needs a foil

At least I know
Mark Keene is quick
Big and tough
Can't do worse than Cameron lol and Lynch at least he would let the opposition know it's a physical game
Rekin her create space, fear and our blokes would walk a little taller

Obvious his aggression is what we need

 

[Darkyprotector]

In a game that had ramifications and implications to play finals, Collingwood squandered a huge opportunity to qualify for the 2020 Finals Series to fall narrowly short against the Brisbane Lions by 8 points. The Magpies had periods of control throughout the night, but failed to maximise any dominance that it gained when they had possession. The Lions had two rotations to play with in the last quarter, yet the Woods could not exploit that factor to their advantage, and paid the price for it in the process. Cohesion from Collingwood's forwards was severely lacking, while the Lions found enough time and space for their forwards to take marks or score simple goals. That was the game in a nutshell.

Collingwood won their statistical categories from disposals by +43 (329 - 286), handballs were won by +53 (160 - 107), while contested possessions had a margin of +22 (135 - 113), and uncontested possessions were +21 (199 - 178). Hit-outs had a differential of +10 (31 - 21), Contested Marks were +6 (11 - 5), Tackles Inside 50 were won by +9 (14 - 5), and Inside 50s had a differential of +8 (41 - 33). Brisbane got their ascendancies from kicks by +10 (179 - 169), marks were +7 (82 - 75), with uncontested marks won by +13 (77 - 64), +3 for Marks Inside 50 (8 - 5), and intercept possessions had a differential of +1 (64 - 63). Clearances (29 each), centre clearances (7 apiece), stoppage clearances (22 all), and tackles (all square at 57) were all evenly split.

Scott Pendlebury (29 disposals @ 66%, 548 metres gained, 12 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 17 kicks, 12 handballs, 3 marks, 6 tackles, 2 goal assists, 5 score involvements, 8 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 6 stoppage clearances, 7 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) was the only midfielder that threatened to win the game for the Woods. There was not much more he could've done to turn the game when the points were on the line and for the taking. Heavy reliance on Pendlebury took its toll on the team, and it was evident.

Josh Daicos (25 disposals @ 68%, 471 metres gained, 12 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 14 kicks, 11 handballs, 5 marks, 4 score involvements, 6 clearances, 6 stoppage clearances, 4 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) played solidly, without dominating the game as he would've liked.

Taylor Adams (23 disposals @ 65%, 322 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 10 kicks, 13 handballs, 3 marks, 7 tackles, 3 score involvements, 2 clearances & 3 Inside 50s) was below par for a player of his standards. Won enough disposals, but clearance and score involvement numbers were inadequate and abysmal, which was very disappointing. Expect a response from you after the bye, Taylor. Clear the way forward in your next game by taking control and impacting the contest as you've done for the bulk of 2020.

Jack Crisp (30 disposals @ 67%, 438 metres gained, 11 contested possessions, 19 uncontested possessions, 10 intercept possessions, 16 kicks, 14 handballs, 8 marks, 6 tackles, 4 score involvements & 4 Inside 50s) provided plenty of drive off half-back, and was immense with his ability to thwart attacking entries at will.

John Noble (23 disposals @ 87%, 218 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 16 uncontested possessions, 7 intercept possessions, 14 kicks, 9 handballs, 2 marks & 4 Rebound 50s) showed his flair once again to use the ball effectively, aside from a couple of handpasses that subsequently resulted in goals to the Lions.

Jack Madgen (19 disposals @ 84%, 138 metres gained, 10 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 9 intercept possessions, 9 kicks, 10 handballs, 6 marks, 2 tackles & 5 Rebound 50s) is proving that he can play at AFL level with a high level of comfort and confidence that he has displayed in recent weeks.

Brayden Maynard (14 disposals @ 71%, 190 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 12 kicks, 2 handballs, 5 marks, 2 score involvements & 4 Inside 50s) was very subdued, but showed aggression when he had the chance with and without the footy in his hands.

Will Hoskin-Elliott (16 disposals @ 81%, 135 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 11 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 5 kicks, 11 handballs, 6 marks, 2 tackles, 3 score involvements & 3 Inside 50s) provided an outlet on the wing again with his marking game. I believe Hoskin-Elliott is pushing up a bit too high up the ground, as he would be of better value closer to goal. Look to create or kick goals from your marks, Will.

Callum Brown (14 disposals @ 64%, 225 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 8 uncontested possessions, 7 kicks, 7 handballs, 2 marks, 6 tackles, 3 Tackles Inside 50, 3 score involvements, 3 Inside 50s & 1 goal) worked hard in attack with his tackling pressure being a hallmark of his game. Ball use was a problem, and needs to corrected so that he can keep his spot.

Brody Mihocek (7 disposals @ 57%, 209 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 3 uncontested possessions, 6 kicks, 4 marks, 2 Contested Marks, 3 Inside 50s & 1 goal) kicked an early goal, before drifting out of the game. Dropped an absolute soda in the goal square during the last quarter, which ultimately denied the Woods any meaningful chance of having the wood over the Lions.

Mason Cox (7 disposals @ 100%, 5 contested possessions, 2 uncontested possessions, 4 kicks, 3 handballs, 3 marks, 2 Contested Marks, 2 Marks Inside 50, 2 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 3 score involvements & 2 goals) managed to eke out a couple of goals that kept Collingwood in touch, but poor ball use prevented him from being a viable target for the entire game.

Collingwood's next game will be against Gold Coast on September 14 at the Gabba. Finals implications on the line for the Woods. Now or never in this game, and the biggest conundrum for the Magpies is having a cohesive group of forwards that are able to take marks, win the ball at ground level, and most importantly, convert goals. Now's the time to ensure the Suns do not rise above the horizon at night and burn them off after the sun has set.

67% disposal efficiency

As a backman
Ouch

As I've said crisps performances last 3 weeks have been typical of this stat
Even more obvious if you look closely
8 marks (how many switch kicks)
Not much pressure on those
11 intercepts
So Fair to assume the 19 uncontested disposals were including intercepts


67%
22 possessions less marks
That means10 we're turnivers

Hard to understand how hot potato noble went at 87%
Those stats are alarming as a senior player

Now if you rewatch the second quarter

I'm not saying he's a dud
I'm saying he's down on form dramatically

Oh and guess what
He's not Bambi
Let's hope the comp doesn't realise we don't like pressure ,panic and turn it over

 

[Darkyprotector]

His last quarter was sensational. Give me a break.

67% disposal efficiency
8 marks
7 switch possession s marked ( no pressure)
30 disposals so 1 in 3 as turnover
Defender

We lost because of turnovers

So give me a break

 

[Darkyprotector]

This is a poetic form I haven't encountered before.

Does it have a name?

It intrigues me

Lot of people simply are delusional
Crisp went at 67% efficiency on 30 posession

8 marks
There fore 22 possessions at 67%
Therefore he gave it up?
That's right every second time