Autopsy Round 16, 2022: Carlton v St.Kilda

[phantom13]

Harsh. Just an opinion from one of the most level headed posters on here.

He quoted me and another poster saying the umpiring wasn’t horrendously one sided, then did it with another.

He’d be the only poster in this or the game day thread, saints supporters or otherwise saying it.

I genuinely assumed it was a troll when he said “if Max copped what McKay copped we’d all be up in arms” like that DOESNT happen every single week.

If he’s not trolling and he genuinely thinks the umpiring should have been more in carltons favour then he’s wrong.

So wrong or trolling. Nothing harsh about it.

 

[plugger66]

150% correct.

He's a rote* footballer, always has been.

*Rote: the use of memory usually with little intelligence learn by rote. 2 : mechanical or unthinking routine or repetition a joyless sense of order.


Has no footy instincts- it's no surprise he is not doing well under ratten and rath's system where we aren't drilled in any set plays and the players are sent out with permission to be unpredictable and chaotic.

Billings would thrive in a team like geelong etc where it's all about moving the ball around in repeatable ways- ie the opposite of what we are

So friggin harsh. Sounds like people who look for his mistakes. I know it isn’t about possessions but he does use it well. Secondly who knows his role. Maybe he is the bale out player when we are under pressure. Maybe he isn’t but he certainly does enough to completely earn his spot. It’s like 12 months ago with Ross. Yes Ross is playing better but he was no where need as bad as people said last year. If you look for errors you will find them.

 

[plugger66]

He quoted me and another poster saying the umpiring wasn’t horrendously one sided, then did it with another.

He’d be the only poster in this or the game day thread, saints supporters or otherwise saying it.

I genuinely assumed it was a troll when he said “if Max copped what McKay copped we’d all be up in arms” like that DOESNT happen every single week.

If he’s not trolling and he genuinely thinks the umpiring should have been more in carltons favour then he’s wrong.

So wrong or trolling. Nothing harsh about it.

Well we all think differently. I saw errors in umpiring last night but no where near as many seem to think. And wrong is only wrong if the decision is found to be wrong. If he said butlers holding the ball was right I’d have issues but most are line ball like many umpiring decisions.

 

[gringo2011]

Sounds like we didn’t miss Patto? He might have a job getting back into the side.

Freo have a lot of capable small goal kickers. Might not take too long.

 

[plugger66]

Sounds like we didn’t miss Patto? He might have a job getting back into the side.

Patto? Ben Paton I gather. He was dropped so you would hope we didn’t miss him.

 

[AirWinmar]

Definitely lacking the courage to bite of risky kicks, and quickly too. Needs to do it without over thinking.
We drafted him at 3 because he was supposed to be an elite kick but i've never seen him be super damaging with it and his goal kicking is atrocious. Seems like the kind of guy who has never spent a lot of time trying to actually improve his skills but just trains and plays well enough to get by. Doesn't have that desire to reach the next level.

Honestly I think it's all mental for JB. He has the physical attributes and footy iq. You see him look inboard and can almost see him thinking "oh better go the safe one". He was a high draft pick because of his skills, which he has - but he needs to use them

 

[AirWinmar]

No issue with that but I think we need to look at the positive stuff over the negative stuff. We still need players like him and as good as we get I doubt we are replacing someone like him. For the 347th time the pick number clouds his actual ability. I understand why but I think it’s unfair on billings.

At the end of the day what pick your taken in the team is obsolete after a couple of years. Billings is an OK to good consistent player. I wish he'd just be more aggressive with his ball use. He'd likely be in our top 3 kicks on the training track, but lacks the confidence to back himself in to take them on, on game day. Has all the skills to cut teams apart with his ball use and elevate his game. Hope he can

 

[plugger66]

At the end of the day what pick your taken in the team is obsolete after a couple of years. Billings is an OK to good consistent player. I wish he'd just be more aggressive with his ball use. He'd likely be in our top 3 kicks on the training track, but lacks the confidence to back himself in to take them on, on game day. Has all the skills to cut teams apart with his ball use and elevate his game. Hope he can

Sounds fair enough but maybe that isn’t his role. Hill takes them on and does well but occasionally stuffs up. Maybe billings is the bale out player. I doubt he lacks that much confidence

 

[AirWinmar]

Sounds fair enough but maybe that isn’t his role. Hill takes them on and does well but occasionally stuffs up. Maybe billings is the bald out player. I doubt he lacks that much confidence

He does seem to play a sweeper type role at times, but I'd be shocked if the coaching group would tell a player with his leg to kick safely

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Sounds like we didn’t miss Patto? He might have a job getting back into the side.

Their small forward was their leading goal scorer so

 

[plugger66]

He does seem to play a sweeper type role at times, but I'd be shocked if the coaching group would tell a player with his leg to kick safely

Maybe. They can’t have all the backs kicking to risky players. Hill and Webster do it. Anyway his linking up is vital. -0 marks suggests he is working hard and providing a link.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Definitely lacking the courage to bite of risky kicks, and quickly too. Needs to do it without over thinking.
We drafted him at 3 because he was supposed to be an elite kick but i've never seen him be super damaging with it and his goal kicking is atrocious. Seems like the kind of guy who has never spent a lot of time trying to actually improve his skills but just trains and plays well enough to get by. Doesn't have that desire to reach the next level.

Billings is renowned as one of our hardest trainers. A perfectionist who is extremely hard on himself.

For whatever the reason why he’s only scratched the surface of his talent, its not due to laziness or
lack or care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gringo2011]

He quoted me and another poster saying the umpiring wasn’t horrendously one sided, then did it with another.

He’d be the only poster in this or the game day thread, saints supporters or otherwise saying it.

I genuinely assumed it was a troll when he said “if Max copped what McKay copped we’d all be up in arms” like that DOESNT happen every single week.

If he’s not trolling and he genuinely thinks the umpiring should have been more in carltons favour then he’s wrong.

So wrong or trolling. Nothing harsh about it.

Sunny is a good level headed poster so he must genuinely believe the it was in our favour.

 

[gringo2011]

150% correct.

He's a rote* footballer, always has been.

*Rote: the use of memory usually with little intelligence learn by rote. 2 : mechanical or unthinking routine or repetition a joyless sense of order.


Has no footy instincts- it's no surprise he is not doing well under ratten and rath's system where we aren't drilled in any set plays and the players are sent out with permission to be unpredictable and chaotic.

Billings would thrive in a team like geelong etc where it's all about moving the ball around in repeatable ways- ie the opposite of what we are

Yeah, I think it was Stavro that said he'd have been good at Hawks back in the day. Just a really defined role and system where his soldier like instruct-able nature would have made him a weapon.

 

[gringo2011]

Billings is renowned as one of our hardest trainers. A perfectionist who is extremely hard on himself.

For whatever the reason why he’s only scratched the surface of his talent, its not due to laziness or
lack or care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, it's all in his head. If he has time to unravel he does. When he plays on instinct he's usually good.

 

[phantom13]

Well we all think differently. I saw errors in umpiring last night but no where near as many seem to think. And wrong is only wrong if the decision is found to be wrong. If he said butlers holding the ball was right I’d have issues but most are line ball like many umpiring decisions.

I mean one of the biggest issues with umpiring now is that it’s nigh on impossible for the decision to be wrong as there is always a way to defend it under the written rule. I guarantee they could justify the Butler one, the non 50 and every ridiculous inconsistency in holding the ball. The Twitter account I mentioned usually rates the umpiring as good based on this “interpretation”. I’ll take a bunch of nuetral supporters off their own bat coming in to say it was ridiculous over even my own interpretation (which is generally pretty unbiased).

Sunny is a good level headed poster so he must genuinely believe the it was in our favour.

Fair enough, don’t know them from a bar of soap tbh. Comment genuinely looked like a troll. I mean Max gets an armchair ride most weeks apparently?

 

[plugger66]

I mean one of the biggest issues with umpiring now is that it’s nigh on impossible for the decision to be wrong as there is always a way to defend it under the written rule. I guarantee they could justify the Butler one, the non 50 and every ridiculous inconsistency in holding the ball. The Twitter account I mentioned usually rates the umpiring as good based on this “interpretation”. I’ll take a bunch of nuetral supporters off their own bat coming in to say it was ridiculous over even my own interpretation (which is generally pretty unbiased).



Fair enough, don’t know them from a bar of soap tbh. Comment genuinely looked like a troll. I mean Max gets an armchair ride most weeks apparently?

I honestly believe umpiring is so much better than in the past. Watched the saints versus Carlton In 1991 yesterday. The game was so open yet to me looked like heaps of average decisions. The difference is social media. We pick up every error and then talk about it as if most decisions are wrong. They get 2 out of 10 wrong. Have for many years apparently. Butlers was clearly wrong. That won’t be disputed. The 50 that wasn’t paid looked wrong but maybe could be justified. We can complain every week for the rest of our lives but there is no answer. Most of our rules are interuptation. The ones they have brought it that are black and white don’t seem to work. Hands on the back. Arms up. There is no answer for errors. It’s actually part of a great thing about the game. It provides so much talk. The afl would actually love it.

 

[phantom13]

I honestly believe umpiring is so much better than in the past. Watched the saints versus Carlton In 1991 yesterday. The game was so open yet to me looked like heaps of average decisions. The difference is social media. We pick up every error and then talk about it as if most decisions are wrong. They get 2 out of 10 wrong. Have for many years apparently. Butlers was clearly wrong. That won’t be disputed. The 50 that wasn’t paid looked wrong but maybe could be justified. We can complain every week for the rest of our lives but there is no answer. Most of our rules are interuptation. The ones they have brought it that are black and white don’t seem to work. Hands on the back. Arms up. There is no answer for errors. It’s actually part of a great thing about the game. It provides so much talk. The afl would actually love it.

I assure you under some misguided reading of the rule even the Butler one could get ticked off.

I don’t doubt it’s better but it’s still a mile from perfect. I can’t remember complaining about the umpiring in any other game this season. I didn’t think it was too bad against the swans, also thought the Essendon game was actually good, we probably even got the rub.

Last night was utter garbage and we were on the wrong end of it all night, when neutrals pop in to say so as well it’s pretty telling.

Anyway it’s a pointless discussion, if sunny wasn’t trolling then fair enough, I apologise (my comment was half tongue in cheek given he felt the need to disagree first) but I have a real tough time anyone could think we got the better end of the umpiring last night, bizarre take.

 

[Joffaboy]

Just watched the replay. Much easier without the emotion.
Umpiring was genuinely one sided, however some turnovers we got,could have been frees to them where we got goals.
Genuinely one of the best games of the season. The grit we displayed in the 4th was inspiring, to see Rohan come back up the race see the score clap hands and fist pump was inspiring.
Watched Billings, he genuinely had a good game, his positioning was outstanding, thought initially he stopped our flow a couple of times, however seems all options were covered so he retained possession with a % kick, wont get kudos as it wasn't flashy, but it was a good performance.

I am not a Billings fan but his game was a good contributing factor.
Tom Highmore was terrific. Once Windhager gets some experience look out. Will be a bull.

 

[Diehard Saint]

So friggin harsh. Sounds like people who look for his mistakes. I know it isn’t about possessions but he does use it well. Secondly who knows his role. Maybe he is the bale out player when we are under pressure. Maybe he isn’t but he certainly does enough to completely earn his spot. It’s like 12 months ago with Ross. Yes Ross is playing better but he was no where need as bad as people said last year. If you look for errors you will find them.

Ross has handed over the whipping boy mantle to JB this season.

 

[plugger66]

I assure you under some misguided reading of the rule even the Butler one could get ticked off.

I don’t doubt it’s better but it’s still a mile from perfect. I can’t remember complaining about the umpiring in any other game this season. I didn’t think it was too bad against the swans, also thought the Essendon game was actually good, we probably even got the rub.

Last night was utter garbage and we were on the wrong end of it all night, when neutrals pop in to say so as well it’s pretty telling.

Anyway it’s a pointless discussion, if sunny wasn’t trolling then fair enough, I apologise (my comment was half tongue in cheek given he felt the need to disagree first) but I have a real tough time anyone could think we got the better end of the umpiring last night, bizarre take.

No wasn’t say you complained but that’s the problem with social media. You might think a game is well umpired but the guy next to you comments on how badly it was umpired. I suppose it’s no different to someone saying our game plan is slow ball movement and then down the wings and the go next to you says it’s dare and quick play down the middle when given the right options. For tge record I didn’t think the umpiring was great last night but I was also over it the minute I had my next pint.

 

[Munga]

Hunter had surgery today. The docs were thouroughly professional.

 

[Premium]

If he is a seconds player we then have the best list in the afl. I don’t care what people say but he keeps getting rated on his pick number. He was good last night.

Billings had a good game , hopefully he just warming to the task after missing half the season.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Hunter had surgery today. The docs were thouroughly professional.

Remember your hippopotamus oath!

 

[Premium]

Sounds fair enough but maybe that isn’t his role. Hill takes them on and does well but occasionally stuffs up. Maybe billings is the bale out player. I doubt he lacks that much confidence

Billings has become the whipping boy - 24 possessions and 10 marks not bad.