Opinion Round 16 Changes vs. Carlton

[poshman]

Ummm, you and I debated Subes prior to the Lions game. I thought he was poor in his role last week allowing them to scrag and get a hold of our ball winners too much.

Clearly yesterday our structure had gone to shit by the time he came on and Suban then went into a more traditional onballer role for which I have never said he is any good at.

Twice youve tried this "I told u so" BS in the wake of our most gutting loss of the year. Classy.

Yes prior to the lions game, but in the context of his worth to the team long term and our ability to match it with the best.

And still in some ways defending suban. He isnt a traditional onballer... he is only good for his role which is zoning back etc etc.. he is a great wet weather footballer (even though he sucked in the wet against brisbane and the weeks before)

Im waiting to see if you can acknowledge that we cant carry his type, who have little to know creative or offensive value in games against the hawks. Do you now acknowledge this? It's not a matter of class or not, some on here take the seemingly moral high ground, and vomit terms and phrases about player giving their all... trust the experts etc etc I find that lacking class, can't have a discussion without resorting to a false sense of inner superiority to justify heads stuck in the sand.

So putting that behind us... do you think we can carry players who just play a role as you so often state as being subans only strength? If not do you not think it is time to bring in players who may offer more?

I dont think they will drop suban or mayne.... i think our wonderful team that I love will stick its head in the sand, pick a similar team and the image that will come to mind is (wish i had a gif) of basil fawlty charging around wounded shouting 'dont mention the war!'

Mayne - Suban - DeBoer all need to go. Mundy needs to be given a serious kick up the rear.

As for youngsters... how refreshing has it been having pearce in the team. He who only got an opportunity despite an ageing backline due to injury.

Perhaps in five or so games weller or blakely could show something similar....

 

[salim malik]

Sydney beat Hawks ,Pies beat WC we smash Carlton next week The world turns and Sydney are suddenly favourites,Hawks are in trouble,WC are shit and we will never win a premiership cause Ross won't play the youth.Have i got this right.

 

[Rion]

I just can't see any negative with chucking one or two of Blakely/Weller/Langdon in for Ballas/DeBoer/Suban etc and backing them in for a few weeks. Its obvious these players have significant form issues so its not like we are losing much bringing in some of our classier youth and it might even improve us ala Will Langford, Heeney, Hill, Hartung from other clubs.

 

[Lach72]

Sydney beat Hawks ,Pies beat WC we smash Carlton next week The world turns and Sydney are suddenly favourites,Hawks are in trouble,WC are shit and we will never win a premiership cause Ross won't play the youth.Have i got this right.

No you actually analyse the football we're playing

 

[Lost_Deputy]

Yes prior to the lions game, but in the context of his worth to the team long term and our ability to match it with the best.

And still in some ways defending suban. He isnt a traditional onballer... he is only good for his role which is zoning back etc etc.. he is a great wet weather footballer (even though he sucked in the wet against brisbane and the weeks before)

Im waiting to see if you can acknowledge that we cant carry his type, who have little to know creative or offensive value in games against the hawks. Do you now acknowledge this? It's not a matter of class or not, some on here take the seemingly moral high ground, and vomit terms and phrases about player giving their all... trust the experts etc etc I find that lacking class, can't have a discussion without resorting to a false sense of inner superiority to justify heads stuck in the sand.

So putting that behind us... do you think we can carry players who just play a role as you so often state as being subans only strength? If not do you not think it is time to bring in players who may offer more?

I dont think they will drop suban or mayne.... i think our wonderful team that I love will stick its head in the sand, pick a similar team and the image that will come to mind is (wish i had a gif) of basil fawlty charging around wounded shouting 'dont mention the war!'

Mayne - Suban - DeBoer all need to go. Mundy needs to be given a serious kick up the rear.

As for youngsters... how refreshing has it been having pearce in the team. He who only got an opportunity despite an ageing backline due to injury.

Perhaps in five or so games weller or blakely could show something similar....

i think right now, given that we haven't been able to regain our early season form every position should be looked at including Subans. Our structure was shot yesterday and Suban had been there, IMO, for structural reasons. Therefore if he isn't going to perform his role there is very little reason for him to be in the side.

It could be a case of RTB selecting one of two options going fwd from yesterday.
1. Find what has warped between round 8 and yesterday and attempt to fix it. This option would have less personnel changes.
2. Recalibrate our gameplan. Review the roles he wants and who is playing them. Bring in some some alternatives up fwd.

Personally I think option 2 is stronger as "fixing" issues is negative motivation. Look at Hinkley trying to find what has been going wrong at Port. Sometimes the best way fwd is to begin by simply looking fwd instead of backwards.

 

[clogged]

Have i got this right.

The answer, as always, is no.

 

[salim malik]

No you actually analyse the football we're playing

Nah ,a week is an eternity in footy . If Sydney take Hawthorn apart next week will there season be over?

 

[Wizard]

Is there any chance we can get Crozier into the team and leave him there for an extended period?? By extended period I DO NOT mean one week in the team and one week as a sub before returning to Peel..........

 

[Lach72]

Nah ,a week is an eternity in footy . If Sydney take Hawthorn apart next week will there season be over?

What about 6 weeks? What about having our arse absolutely pole ****ed by the team most likely?

 

[salim malik]

The answer, as always, is no.

Are the font of all knowledge has slunk out from under his rock.Good morning sunshine.

 

[poshman]

Sydney beat Hawks ,Pies beat WC we smash Carlton next week The world turns and Sydney are suddenly favourites,Hawks are in trouble,WC are shit and we will never win a premiership cause Ross won't play the youth.Have i got this right.

Head in sand much?

Simple question: do you think we could beat hawthorn at the G?

And would you rate us against Sydney there?

Sydney beating the Hawks in Sydney wouldn't be surprising. It would be surprising if it was by 70 pts. Your reasoning doesn't stack up mate.

 

[DudleyDocker]

i think right now, given that we haven't been able to regain our early season form every position should be looked at including Subans. Our structure was shot yesterday and Suban had been there, IMO, for structural reasons. Therefore if he isn't going to perform his role there is very little reason for him to be in the side.

It could be a case of RTB selecting one of two options going fwd from yesterday.
1. Find what has warped between round 8 and yesterday and attempt to fix it. This option would have less personnel changes.
2. Recalibrate our gameplan. Review the roles he wants and who is playing them. Bring in some some alternatives up fwd.

Personally I think option 2 is stronger as "fixing" issues is negative motivation. Look at Hinkley trying to find what has been going wrong at Port. Sometimes the best way fwd is to begin by simply looking fwd instead of backwards.

Good post Lost_Deputy, agree about the looking forward bit. Some of us have been calling for it for some time - not panicking, not throwing the toys out of the cot, but looking for better ways of doing things.

We are certainly not shot, and I'd still rather have our ladder position than anyone else's. We just need to make sure we have a Plan B and a Plan C come finals time, rather than just switching between Plan A and Plan A(1.1)

 

[salim malik]

What about 6 weeks? What about having our arse absolutely pole stuffed by the team most likely?

Sure but form turns.Hawks struggled at the start of the season,they dropped four games,taken apart by Port .Like I said a week is a long time in footy.

 

[dockerfemme]

Tabs, Croz in.

Tabs might not be great but we know a forward line based round Pav, Mayne, Ballas and SonSon is not good enough.

Croz has some of the x factor we need, and likes to kick a goal. I may be old fashioned but I like this in a forward.

Any 2 of Suban, de Boer, Mayne or Ballas out.

I also would be happy to see Blakely or Weller debuted.

We need variety and (gasp) risk in our clearance work. I would like to see Barlow used more inside at the stoppages and Mundy and Fyfe more outside. Also, more forward, in Fyfe's case, and more forward and back, in Mundy's case. I really liked Mundy's game a few weeks ago against North when he played more outside and drifted forward and kicked 2 goals.

More variety in the forward 50 is also needed. As someone else mentioned, the last time Mayne played well was against Melbourne, out of the goal square when Pav went off. I know it was only Melbourne, but maybe there is something here - Pav more up the ground, a more open forward 50 and Mayne to start out of the goal square.

Over the next few weeks, I like the idea of trying Zac D for Zac C. Based on the little we've seen, he can ruck a bit and provides a different dynamic at the stoppage. It's hard to see him as dangerous inside the forward 50 but he would bring the ball to ground and if he is able to do that to the advantage of our small forwards maybe he can be useful.

When MJ comes back, I would like to see Alex P stay in and allow MJ plenty of creativity. Our rebound without MJ has been abysmal. This would give us a back 6 of Luke, MJ, Alex P, Ibbo, Lee Spurr and a rebounder, which could be Duff, Sutty, Sherro, Hilly or Mundy. I'd like to see Sutty in a role with a real focus on rebounding, rather than defending, if he can show form at Peel.

I really feel our problems are in 1 dimensional structures as much as in personnel.

 

[malpaso]

If RTB doesn't make the changes either in personnel or game plan soon then he will run the risk of losing the players' faith.
Sydney vs Hawks this week is very interesting as the Swans are not in good form similar to us. I think the Hawks will beat them however Sydney WILL MAN UP and make it much harder for them then we did.

 

[Spoken4]

And what precipitated Simpson's demise was after making an exciting & promising debut he was left out for a half fit Mayne who did nothing & we got our ass handed to us by Sydney.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, we lost that game by 17 points and won most of the key stats.

 

[salim malik]

Head in sand much?

Simple question: do you think we could beat hawthorn at the G?

And would you rate us against Sydney there?

Sydney beating the Hawks in Sydney wouldn't be surprising. It would be surprising if it was by 70 pts. Your reasoning doesn't stack up mate.

You're missing the point mate.The hawks were written of when they had their slump,they dropped four games ,taken apart by Port.At that stage they where slow,old undisciplined.There is a turnover of the new flavour of the week every couple of weeks.There isn't a side that doesn't have a slump over the season.The trick is to abate the slump.Freo have 8 games to get it right mate.

 

[blue shark]

This result was as expected by everyone, the difference is that Hawks have skilled players, that can read the play, and have the flair to take the
game on, spread to advantage, and the outside players to carve up zoning, players guarding space.
We are too predictable in the ruck, and handball short, trying to run through congestion, break tackles, etc, need to handball further, or to advantage.
You will not break tackles, have inside game dominance against a Clarkson team.
The team needed this kick up the bum, but I think the coach needed it more, for over four weeks we have had to carry players, its time the coach
earned his keep.
Out: Take your pick Balla, Mayne, Pav, Suban, MDB, Mundy, Duffield, Clarke, D Pearce.
In: Tabs, has to play, anyone at Peel that is showing more than the guys above.

 

[clogged]

Are the font of all knowledge has slunk out from under his rock.Good morning sunshine.

OK Pollyanna.

Tell us how we're all wrong.11-2 , top of ladder.

 

[salim malik]

OK Pollyanna.

Tell us how we're all wrong.11-2 , top of ladder.

12/ 2 .If you don't know how our season is going its not really worth discussing any thing with you.And here I was thinking you where this font of all knowledge.

 

[poshman]

You're missing the point mate.The hawks were written of when they had their slump,they dropped four games ,taken apart by Port.At that stage they where slow,old undisciplined.There is a turnover of the new flavour of the week every couple of weeks.There isn't a side that doesn't have a slump over the season.The trick is to abate the slump.Freo have 8 games to get it right mate.

Completely agree. I still have us finishing top two.

But the question is: Do you think we can beat the hawks at the G with some of the players (very very average players) we have running around week after week?

Do you think we will beat Syd?

Those questions arent simply based on a weeks analysis or a minor slump here or there. For mine, this loss simply drove home a point that some of us have been trying to make consistently for the majority of the season.

12-2 is an amazing place to be. I think we will win all but two from here. Will enjoy it, as it should be enjoyed. We are however in a period of opportunity at the club which may not come around again for another five years. That is we are a genuine top four team with a shot at the flag. I have loved what Lyon has brought to our club, but the flag is our and his aim. As such, the question has to be asked: Can we beat the hawks or sydney at the G with the players we continually play?

My answer would be a 85% certainty of no. In other words on current and previous seasons form, taking into account they can bring in roughy later in the year, we beat them with our current players and game plan 2 in 10 times.

 

[clogged]

12/ 2 .If you don't know how our season is going its not really worth discussing any thing with you.And here I was thinking you where this font of all knowledge.

It was a deliberate mistake considering you make mistakes in your typing so often.

Every single week you attempt to shut down discussions about the team in a barely legible format with missing facts and half baked ideas. You're a clown.

 

[Lach72]

We wouldn't beat Carlton with the attitude and skill we displayed yesterday

 

[clogged]

You're missing the point mate.The hawks were written of when they had their slump,they dropped four games ,taken apart by Port.At that stage they where slow,old undisciplined.There is a turnover of the new flavour of the week every couple of weeks.There isn't a side that doesn't have a slump over the season.The trick is to abate the slump.Freo have 8 games to get it right mate.

Hawthorn dropped four games by small margins. They haven't been outclassed by this kind of margin for years.

Do you even watch football?

 

[jusjoshin]

Give Fyfe a rest. Call it "bone bruising" in the injury list to highlight Sam Mitchel being a filthy campaigner.