Preview Round 5, 2018: St.Kilda v GWS - Etihad Stadium, Saturday 21st April, 1:45PM AEST

[SufferingS8INT]

I’m in the guard of honour for the boys as they run out so definitely won’t be boycotting but giving them words of support as they run out instead.

Hopefully battle gets a run this week, him paddy and Marshall have played a fair bit together at Sandy so should Be interesting providing our Gameplan allows a forward line!!

GWS by 46

 

[triggering bro]

I'm not sure what the actual issue is or if there is just one. We seem to have lost confidence from the North loss for a start. The loss of Joey and Rooey were supposed to actually give the kids like Seb, Billings, Newnes etc the keys to the car which would lead us to a new dawn. Instead all the gains we made with players last year like Roberton, Billings, Gresham, Seb, Membrey have all dropped away after they took their foot off the gas.

We needed to get Stuv back uninjured but he did his ankle preseason and hasn't looked right. Armo coming back was supposed to give an extra leader but he's looking like he's struggling to find fitness and form. Play fair seems to have come in with a new structure that our players are struggling to work out and our forward line started out with Paddy, Bruce (who was injured preseason and came straight in) and Membrey.

All have been below average and probably if honest very poor. The only decent small forwards have dropped right off and don't offer any scoring any more making us the 18th team for scoring in the AFL. Now 2 of the key forwards are injured and only an inexperienced KPF is in place it's not about to get heaps of improvement.

We need to get Billings and gresham hitting the score board and use Long and perhaps Wright/Lonie and Weller to make up a Richmond style smaller running forward line.

Last years game plan wasn't terrible so who know's how the **** to fix it.

I think you are correct saying the players have lost confidence however I disagree that it’s been since the North game. Our JLT performances were extremely poor & even going back to when we beat Richmond last year we’ve been poor, players have been down on form/confidence & this has been reflected in our results.

There are two reasons why players drop in confidence & they are not mutually exclusive.
1. Individual form is down, as such, the individuals confidence takes a hit; &
2. Team form is down. Individuals are executing their role however there is no positive outcome for team performance.

Imagine for a sec you are a car salesman. Your boss/trainer coaches you on how to effectively sell cars & make money. You do exactly what he tells you to do however you are not selling any cars/you are hardly selling any. Meanwhile, you are seeing the other salesmen at the car dealership being coached by a different trainer & they are selling a shit load of cars.

Given the above, how do you feel about your trainer? Do you blame him? Or do you blame yourself? Probably a bit of both which leads to loss in confidence & your output suffers further as a result.

 

[tim_saints]

I think you are correct saying the players have lost confidence however I disagree that it’s been since the North game. Our JLT performances were extremely poor & even going back to when we beat Richmond last year we’ve been poor, players have been down on form/confidence & this has been reflected in our results.

There are two reasons why players drop in confidence & they are not mutually exclusive.
1. Individual form is down, as such, the individuals confidence takes a hit; &
2. Team form is down. Individuals are executing their role however there is no positive outcome for team performance.

Imagine for a sec you are a car salesman. Your boss/trainer coaches you on how to effectively sell cars & make money. You do exactly what he tells you to do however you are not selling any cars/you are hardly selling any. Meanwhile, you are seeing the other salesmen at the car dealership being coached by a different trainer & they are selling a shit load of cars.

Given the above, how do you feel about your trainer? Do you blame him? Or do you blame yourself? Probably a bit of both which leads to loss in confidence & your output suffers further as a result.

I would literally just say go and play, use our zones in kick ins and kick outs but play man on man and just ****ing play.

Whatever we are doing isn’t working at the moment, we all see it, past players see it, commentators see it, they need to change it up a bit.

It’s more the personnel the players don’t look confident executing whatever it is being showed to them so do what the players think will work? But of a left field approach and could be a recipe for disaster but I’d rather see us lose and lose badly trying to get better than staying the course and stuffing around with whatever it is we have been this past month.

 

[George]

I’m in the guard of honour for the boys as they run out so definitely won’t be boycotting but giving them words of support as they run out instead.

Hopefully battle gets a run this week, him paddy and Marshall have played a fair bit together at Sandy so should Be interesting providing our Gameplan allows a forward line!!

GWS by 46

Soldier On?

 

[Longmembrey]

Look at Melbourne, they can score as much as they want they still go absolutely flogged on the weekend... point is we can put Jake down forward and potentially kick a couple more goals but what we would give up at the other end with a forward line as talented as GWS is it worth it? I don’t think so, Jake could be the difference between a 60 point loss and a 100 point loss down there honestly.

Hmmm not sure if serious

 

[tim_saints]

Hmmm not sure if serious

Alright well when we did play Jake up forward on Good Friday in the last quarter it went from a close game to a 52 point loss so I mean if you think moving our best defender and I’d argue our best player to the forward line for the sake of a couple of goals here and there while we play Austin on Cameron, Brown on Patton and Gilbert on Himmelberg and expect us to keep it respectable... I’m not sure you’re serious.

 

[SaintWWodonga]

Tremendous News:
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2018-04-17/clark-and-coffield-extend-stay

Hopefully BOTH in the team this week.

 

[STK2020]

I would literally just say go and play, use our zones in kick ins and kick outs but play man on man and just ******* play.

Whatever we are doing isn’t working at the moment, we all see it, past players see it, commentators see it, they need to change it up a bit.

It’s more the personnel the players don’t look confident executing whatever it is being showed to them so do what the players think will work? But of a left field approach and could be a recipe for disaster but I’d rather see us lose and lose badly trying to get better than staying the course and stuffing around with whatever it is we have been this past month.

This

 

[tim_saints]

Tremendous News:
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2018-04-17/clark-and-coffield-extend-stay

Hopefully BOTH in the team this week.

That’s awesome, finally some good news.

 

[SaintWWodonga]

Great story to go:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...iders-recipe-for-success-20180417-p4za5a.html

 

[Longmembrey]

Alright well when we did play Jake up forward on Good Friday in the last quarter it went from a close game to a 52 point loss so I mean if you think moving our best defender and I’d argue our best player to the forward line for the sake of a couple of goals here and there while we play Austin on Cameron, Brown on Patton and Gilbert on Himmelberg and expect us to keep it respectable... I’m not sure you’re serious.

Yeah well my suggestion was not to swing him forward when we are already 10 goals down and expose our defence further. It is to pre-plan and structure it with him starting forward (this is all assuming Membrey / Marshall don't play) with the aim of giving ouselves a chance of kicking a winning score.

Otherwise, leaving Paddy as our sole target (remembering he usually has low TOG) will mean the Giants will outnumber and launch attack after attack - no defence will withstand it. It will also mean any attempt at forward pressure will be rendered useless (as the Giants will mark everything). It will also mean our midfield will have nothing to kick to when under pressure.

Austin has successfully played KPD in the AFL in the past. He's not a 1st gamer. Why else did we trade for him? May as well have a look at him give the current situation!

Anyway, hopefully Membrey / Marshall come up and then we don't have to bother.

 

[SufferingS8INT]

Soldier On?

Yeah Mate u involved?

 

[George]

Yeah Mate u involved?

Nah but I love the work the club does with them

 

[tim_saints]

Yeah well my suggestion was not to swing him forward when we are already 10 goals down and expose our defence further. It is to pre-plan and structure it with him starting forward (this is all assuming Membrey / Marshall don't play) with the aim of giving ouselves a chance of kicking a winning score.

Otherwise, leaving Paddy as our sole target (remembering he usually has low TOG) will mean the Giants will outnumber and launch attack after attack - no defence will withstand it. It will also mean any attempt at forward pressure will be rendered useless (as the Giants will mark everything). It will also mean our midfield will have nothing to kick to when under pressure.

Austin has successfully played KPD in the AFL in the past. He's not a 1st gamer. Why else did we trade for him? May as well have a look at him give the current situation!

Anyway, hopefully Membrey / Marshall come up and then we don't have to bother.

Look I don't completely disagree with you, I get why people would be tempted to do the swing forward for Jakey but before we didn't have him, CHB was such a glaring hole in our team, Austin isn't a first gamer he has played AFL football but Jake is truly one of the better CHB's in the league. When he played forward for the Dons he wasn't one of the best CHF's in the game, he in fact hated it and before injury, when they swung him back to CHB was on the cusp of All-Australian.

 

[SufferingS8INT]

Nah but I love the work the club does with them

Yeah mate two great organisations working together, one is a little more successful than the other at the minute though!!

 

[gringo2011]

I think you are correct saying the players have lost confidence however I disagree that it’s been since the North game. Our JLT performances were extremely poor & even going back to when we beat Richmond last year we’ve been poor, players have been down on form/confidence & this has been reflected in our results.

There are two reasons why players drop in confidence & they are not mutually exclusive.
1. Individual form is down, as such, the individuals confidence takes a hit; &
2. Team form is down. Individuals are executing their role however there is no positive outcome for team performance.

Imagine for a sec you are a car salesman. Your boss/trainer coaches you on how to effectively sell cars & make money. You do exactly what he tells you to do however you are not selling any cars/you are hardly selling any. Meanwhile, you are seeing the other salesmen at the car dealership being coached by a different trainer & they are selling a shit load of cars.

Given the above, how do you feel about your trainer? Do you blame him? Or do you blame yourself? Probably a bit of both which leads to loss in confidence & your output suffers further as a result.

It's not that simple though is it. That suggests every one has exactly the same cars to sell. It's like your sales coach has you selling Daewoos and that other crew is selling BMWs. Our guy might teaching all his honey dripping words but just doesn't have a product that suits the market ATM. To me we might not be a Daewoo but perhaps a half assembled BMW and we take it to the race track and bits fall off it.

 

[Indie Rock]

Great story to go:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...iders-recipe-for-success-20180417-p4za5a.html

Great article.

The lads personalities came through as well as it being a good informative and funny read.

We may be a shambles on the park at the moment but the Saints PR and media team aren’t mugs and have come on leaps and bounds.

2 of the brightest parts of our year so far locked in for 4 years.

Well done Saints.

 

[Yabadoo22]

Want Clark to play this week with his mate the coff. Coffield already looks like a 100 game player where as Clark looked a bit shaky the day against north, didn’t everyone though? But honestly think they are both already best 22.

 

[Nutsngum]

I think you are correct saying the players have lost confidence however I disagree that it’s been since the North game. Our JLT performances were extremely poor & even going back to when we beat Richmond last year we’ve been poor, players have been down on form/confidence & this has been reflected in our results.

People keep saying this but we won the West Coast game and let the Port game slip away in literally the dying seconds. It wasn't as dire as people are retroactively making.

 

[sammm]

Great story to go:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...iders-recipe-for-success-20180417-p4za5a.html

Really nice article

 

[VDS66]

I think you are correct saying the players have lost confidence however I disagree that it’s been since the North game. Our JLT performances were extremely poor & even going back to when we beat Richmond last year we’ve been poor, players have been down on form/confidence & this has been reflected in our results.

There are two reasons why players drop in confidence & they are not mutually exclusive.
1. Individual form is down, as such, the individuals confidence takes a hit; &
2. Team form is down. Individuals are executing their role however there is no positive outcome for team performance.

Imagine for a sec you are a car salesman. Your boss/trainer coaches you on how to effectively sell cars & make money. You do exactly what he tells you to do however you are not selling any cars/you are hardly selling any. Meanwhile, you are seeing the other salesmen at the car dealership being coached by a different trainer & they are selling a shit load of cars.

Given the above, how do you feel about your trainer? Do you blame him? Or do you blame yourself? Probably a bit of both which leads to loss in confidence & your output suffers further as a result.

Interesting analogy. But it doesn't work that way because dealers will have a uniform training process. But I get your point.

 

[VDS66]

It's not that simple though is it. That suggests every one has exactly the same cars to sell. It's like your sales coach has you selling Daewoos and that other crew is selling BMWs. Our guy might teaching all his honey dripping words but just doesn't have a product that suits the market ATM. To me we might not be a Daewoo but perhaps a half assembled BMW and we take it to the race track and bits fall off it.

In the end we have changed our structure and not getting results.

Either the players aren't up to it, or it's a shit system. I'd say its the former.

That's why you give it the whole season before judging.

 

[VDS66]

I would literally just say go and play, use our zones in kick ins and kick outs but play man on man and just ******* play.

Whatever we are doing isn’t working at the moment, we all see it, past players see it, commentators see it, they need to change it up a bit.

It’s more the personnel the players don’t look confident executing whatever it is being showed to them so do what the players think will work? But of a left field approach and could be a recipe for disaster but I’d rather see us lose and lose badly trying to get better than staying the course and stuffing around with whatever it is we have been this past month.

I'm sorry but that is a very simplistic approach that doesn't help long-term.

Firstly any game plan is about winning finals, so have to create one and stick to it until the players get it or you find players that will get it.

Exactly what Ross did and it didn't click until mid 2008.

Short term pain for long term gain.

In terms of changing things up, we already have since last year. Tweaks will be made.

 

[tim_saints]

I'm sorry but that is a very simplistic approach that doesn't help long-term.

Firstly any game plan is about winning finals, so have to create one and stick to it until the players get it or you find players that will get it.

Exactly what Ross did and it didn't click until mid 2008.

Short term pain for long term gain.

In terms of changing things up, we already have since last year. Tweaks will be made.

Then tell the fans that is what is happening, we have new tactics we are trying, the boys are learning this and it's going to take some time....not 'the numbers were good it was just our ability to deal with the other teams pressure'.... or 'we actually had a lot of entries in our forward half but the quality of our looks wasn't great'

Because right now all we know is players are out of form, not a whole entirely new game plan we are trying to figure out.

 

[#gosaintas]

Then tell the fans that is what is happening, we have new tactics we are trying, the boys are learning this and it's going to take some time....not 'the numbers were good it was just our ability to deal with the other teams pressure'.... or 'we actually had a lot of entries in our forward half but the quality of our looks wasn't great'

Because right now all we know is players are out of form, not a whole entirely new game plan we are trying to figure out.

You,ve got it all wrong...

It's quite simply a problem of transition between our kickers and our catchers.

Onya Richo