Autopsy Round 5 = Brisbane 98-91 Collingwood

[gouki88]

Is he possibly carrying an injury? I remember a game against Richmond (maybe!!?) where he tore them up. Watching him at the game I thought he was very impressive.

He just came back from COVID, so hard to say if that’s impacted him. He is often injured though

 

[sr36]

I can't imagine him looking anymore coordinated or effective in defence than in any other part of the ground.

I like the idea of Cox in defence, as he wouldn't have to run as far to utilise his biggest strength of standing on the mark.

 

[Scodog10]

Yep Adams is a concern for me. He brings so much to our side with leadership and just pure grunt work but his kicking, particularly going inside 50 last night was a killer.


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I’m not quite on the same page. Adams is who he is (which is AA caliber at his best) for me it’s more about him choosing better options when he’s within 75 on the burst. We’re a handball team in 2022 and it’s working, but you can’t have your worst user by foot going at a 3:1 kick to handball ratio that’s not going to work. Be smarter would be the message.

J Daicos. Lipinski.

We have good ball users, but somehow the ball inexplicably ended up in Adams’ hands going inside 50 for a large portion of the night…

They’re good, but N Daicos and Pendles are next level.

FWIW IQ is another VinnieB. IMO, it’s more about the grunt and defensive spread and I’m afraid to say it, but Phillips right now > Sidebottom.

 

[bucksisbest]

I’m assuming you are including Moore as one of the two?

He was the leading interceptor on the ground I believe yet only played 3 quarters in defence. He only had one goal kicked on him until then which was Joe’s second goal when a ball squirted out and hit him on the chest that was unstoppable.

He then goes forward and creates a contest, gets a couple of goals, should have been titted up with a couple more shots at it if not for Adams and co’s wobbly boots.

I think you don’t like him because he’s tall, beautiful and intelligent.

I dont put Moore in the same category as Grundy, in terms of mentality.

However, I do think we give him a lot of latitude compared to others. He gets alot of goals kicked on him for an 'elite defender' and can make critical errors that are often lackadaisical.

As I said in gameday, i would keep him back ideally with 2 other solid defensive KPFs and he plays on a 3rd forward where he concentrates on intercept and generating counter attacks.

 

[gouki88]

I dont put Moore in the same category as Grundy, in terms of mentality.

However, I do think we give him a lot of latitude compared to others. He gets alot of goals kicked on him for an 'elite defender' and can make critical errors that are often lackadaisical.

As I said in gameday, i would keep him back ideally with 2 other solid defensive KPFs and he plays on a 3rd forward where he concentrates on intercept and generating counter attacks.

Richmond did that well with Rance alongside Astbury and Grimes (who has since become high quality)

 

[BringFevBack2021]

He just came back from COVID, so hard to say if that’s impacted him. He is often injured though

He’s very impressive physically, very strong guy - this is the worst I’ve seen him play but if I were a Collingwood supporter I’d back him in. The Daicos’ and Lipinski are pretty good users anyway so it usually wouldn’t be the end of the world.

 

[loki04]

It was Rougheads first game back. It took him a couple of weeks to find form last time he returned from a break. There aren't better alternatives either so i'd back him in.

Not to mention Daniher is on track for AA selection, he is killing it this year. He is the fwd we lack.

 

[Maggie Greg]

Watching last night I heard the idiotic comments by Leigh Matthews about Cox's sports glasses. Maybe he should retire from commentary and look after his rose garden.

Also the criticism of Cox is ridiculous.

Cox always starts slowly when returning to the seniors- it takes him a game or two to get his timing/clunking right.

One only need to look back to R1 2018 v Hawthorn when Pie supporters were yelling abuse at him for dropping marks - a round or so later he came good.

He needs to play regularly.

 

[loki04]

Gardener's a grub. He pushed Krueger's head into the ground after a tackle where Krueger was prone and difficult to protect himself. Good to see Krueger roll him after that anyway. Krueger is strong. There was a bit of that from Brisbane last night. They're a dirty team.

Right out the Richmond playbook, ditto Lions 3 peat team and Hawks dynasty unsociable hawks I believe.

 

[sr36]

I’m not quite on the same page. Adams is who he is (which is AA caliber at his best) for me it’s more about him choosing better options when he’s within 75 on the burst. We’re a handball team in 2022 and it’s working, but you can’t have your worst user by foot going at a 3:1 kick to handball ratio that’s not going to work. Be smarter would be the message.

With the system were playing, I don't know if it's engineerable. They take off as a group and who gets the final kick in the clear, if it works, isn't that controllable. Him not taking off as part of the group really reduces the chances of anyone getting a final kick in the clear.

 

[gouki88]

Watching last night I heard the idiotic comments by Leigh Matthews about Cox's sports glasses. Maybe he should retire from commentary and look after his rose garden.

Also the criticism of Cox is ridiculous.

Cox always starts slowly when returning to the seniors- it takes him a game or two to get his timing/clunking right.

One only need to look back to R1 2018 v Hawthorn when Pie supporters were yelling abuse at him for dropping marks - a round or so later he came good.

He needs to play regularly.

Ah yes, only need to go 4 years back to find any kind of reliable form from Cox

Cox was inexcusably bad last night. Genuinely abominable. He should never see seniors again

 

[parano1a]

Cox would be lucky to get a game at the broken hill under 12's. Pathetic.

He had a shocker but that is harsh. He was one of our best in the VFL last week and can continue to support our VFL side in the ruck whilst Begg is developing. Also if Grundy does his knee or something we need the depth to cover him in the ruck.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Callum Brown the forward aye I think I’ve seen that movie before…

The real irritating element for me out of last night was that if we didn’t have Adams taking that last kick I50 what felt like 75% of the night we probably win. The dude has 6 I50’s and an overall disposal efficiency of 46% so if you consider he’s decent by hand it means he maybe hit 5 targets out of his 15 kicks. You have to be better against the best!

Don’t get me started on our million $ ruckman being made to look pedestrian by Darcy ******* Fort, none of our individual defenders having a good night and without a dominant mid. All the team elements are there, but the frustration in trying to bring them altogether is giving me flashbacks to 14-16 Bravingwood. Where close enough was good enough because we were “young”.

Great post, it does show there is improvement, maybe not Tay's disposal but Tay limits Tay to Tay's strengths. Ferret at the phone box and assist better ball users. I did mention this on these boards in 2016 when I arrived and have since.

Don't kick the f*n ball Tay, stay in the phone box, do your work there and f*n stay there.

There's improvement in Grundy, there's improvement in our vaunted backline, there's unknown improvement in our new recruits. But we're bravingwood by necessity this time, not the bravingwood list built by Dekka and co at the request of Bucks.

This is what I'm talking about when I mention 'reap what you sew Collingwood'.

 

[Maggie Greg]

Ah yes, only need to go 4 years back to find any kind of reliable form from Cox

Cox was inexcusably bad last night. Genuinely abominable. He should never see seniors again

No, that was an example. 2020 Qualifying Final should twig your porous memory.

 

[loki04]

Cox would be lucky to get a game at the broken hill under 12's. Pathetic.

They'd certainly rough him up and have him off his game.

 

[Maggie Greg]

Interesting Grundy statistic comparison some other fan posted this morning about last night's game.



Grundy: 62 ruck contests, 26 HO’s, zero tackles, zero marks, zero score involvements

Cox: 12 ruck contests, 7 HO’s, 4 tackles, 2 marks, 1 score involvement

Cameron: 16 ruck contests, 6 HO’s, 0 tackles, 3 marks, 2 score involvements

Has Grundy taken over Josh Fraser

Josh Fraser

Age

42

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.4

4star

CL

2.5

4star

HO

11.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

2.8

3star

HO

8.6

5star

's mantle as the World's Tallest Half Forward Flanker?

 

[Scodog10]

Great post, it does show there is improvement, maybe not Tay's disposal but Tay limits Tay to Tay's strengths. Ferret at the phone and assist better ball users. I did mention this on these boards in 2016 when I arrived and have since.

Don't kick the f*n ball Tay, stay in the phone box, do your work there and f*n stay there.

There's improvement in Grundy, there's improvement in our vaunted backline, there's unknown improvement in our new recruits. But we're bravingwood by necessity this time, not the bravingwood list built by Dekka and co at the request of Bucks.

This is what I'm talking about when I mention 'reap what you sew Collingwood'.

I definitely agree with this. The losses have been tough to take, but the path to success is obvious. Tightening up our structure behind the ball and ball use in front of it would make us a 6 goal better side last night. How many times did we have numbers deep only to be out marked in a 1 v 1? That stuff will come and it’s been at the expense of opening up our ball movement.

FWIW outside of the Cox and Cameron decision everything is in place for us to win matches system wise which was rarely the case under Buckley.

 

[No SPIN]

I think Grundy will be OK. I am also frustrated with his current output though.

Some of his problem is fatigue. Much of his problem is temperament and composure.
He actually often has more time than he thinks. If he steadies, his kicking from clearances will improve.
He is actually a relatively neat field kick when he kicks from a free kick or mark or at goal.
His temperament is also resulting in unnecessary free kicks from overly aggressive tackles etc.

His 4Q ruck work also shows that he can tap effectively.
He's not super tall nor has an amazing leap.
So he compensates by putting his body in to block his opponent.
But it means that he jumps early and is at very awkward angles/positions when he gets to tap the ball and so often he is off-balance.
Hard to find a moving ruck target from that off-balance position.

These things are addressable.

Excellent post.

 

[sr36]

Interesting Grundy statistic comparison some other fan posted this morning about last night's game.



Grundy: 62 ruck contests, 26 HO’s, zero tackles, zero marks, zero score involvements

Cox: 12 ruck contests, 7 HO’s, 4 tackles, 2 marks, 1 score involvement

Cameron: 16 ruck contests, 6 HO’s, 0 tackles, 3 marks, 2 score involvements

Has Grundy taken over Josh Fraser's mantle as the World's Tallest Half Forward Flanker?

Tall half forward flankers don't win 7 clearances. Coaching focus needs to be on his ball use coming out of stoppage - it's currently woeful, but if they can fix that, he'll be really valuable again.

 

[eyeroller]

Giving my props to JDG...It is a little bit exciting to have a midfielder who is capable of kicking 4 goals in a game. Let's hope he can do similarly at least somewhat consistently!

 

[eyeroller]

Don't get too carried away, one was a free kick and 50m penalty, the other was a Joe-the-goose in the last second of the game.

Didn't do much to improve our marking prowess inside F50 really and Roughy at the other end was manhandled by Daniher twice for two goals of his own.

My comment was intended to be a joke. Kind of. I'm not sure if we can really spare him from defence or if it is even worth trying but.... it is fun to imagine what possibly could be or could have been

 

[No SPIN]

Do we keep Moore forward? Might solve our forward twin tower need teaming up with Krueger

Try Kelly down back with Roughead. Then if hes not up for it Dean might be ready by then. Or McMahon if his VFL form is good, or Cox hes so good at dropping marks a change to doing it down back spoling might work lol.

We can’t reward mediocrity. Kelly is just so way off that I’d give him a rocket and drop him to the VFL bench.
He strides around totally oblivious and disinterested. He gives away dumb free kicks and makes dumb decisions.
IMO he’s talented, but needs some tough love, not be rewarded with games in the seniors.

 

[Maggie Greg]

We lost that game in the second quarter, and it was lost in the coach's box when Pendlebury was moved off Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

.

That was an extraordinary decision. As a result Brisbane kicked 6 goals to our 2.

We certainly have an L-Plate coach at the moment, who is 3 hours into his 120 hours in the box before he can get his coach's licence.

 

[Doc1763]

We lost that game in the second quarter, and it was lost in the coach's box when Pendlebury was moved off Lachie Neale.

That was an extraordinary decision. As a result Brisbane kicked 6 goals to our 2.

We certainly have an L-Plate coach at the moment, who is 3 hours into his 120 hours in the box before he can get his coach's licence.

Yes, and he inherited a side that finished 17th, not runners up.

I think he's going OK.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Watching last night I heard the idiotic comments by Leigh Matthews about Cox's sports glasses. Maybe he should retire from commentary and look after his rose garden.

Also the criticism of Cox is ridiculous.

Cox always starts slowly when returning to the seniors- it takes him a game or two to get his timing/clunking right.

One only need to look back to R1 2018 v Hawthorn when Pie supporters were yelling abuse at him for dropping marks - a round or so later he came good.

He needs to play regularly.

Or not at all. Preferably.