Autopsy Round 7, 2020: Adelaide v St.Kilda *BYRNES DEBUT*

[gringo2011]

After an initial 'who' at the draft and a couple years recovering from an ACL he's turned into a very respectable player.

Taken a pick or two before Gresh as well I think. Remember holding my breath about that time.

He was looking like a star early before he did a knee. He was a bit of a Blaine Brokehorse when they took him high but he's a gun.

 

[gringo2011]

Even apologist Browny had to admit the umpiring was wasn’t great. That block was not 50/50, it’s the sort of thing that happens nearly every contest (And is easy to see when you’re at the ground) but only gets paid once in a blue moon. Holding the ball was a roller coaster, without watching the replay and questioning case by case I can’t tell you which ones were dodgy to my mind. Yes, I admit Gearys was there, but again it’s the type that doesn’t get paid, case and point, Tex’s the next quarter.

I wouldn’t complain to non-saints fans because no one likes those supporters but it was frustrating to watch.

The thing that drives you nuts is they were pushing King under the ball in exactly the same was while the second defender was also holding him by wrapping arms around him. You can handle over officiating if it goes both ways. It was a lottery last night. Sometimes it's holding the ball with no prior. Sometimes you could hold the ball for ages.

The Crows started to get so bold that they literally didn't even hide infringing. At one point Howard was running at the ball with Lynch hanging off his arm dragging him along as he chased. You could tell every time Tex went towards anything they had the whistle in their mouths trying to find anything they could. There is always a concern when the side that is first to the ball gets all night has a massive free kick discrepancy go against them. Sometimes lop sided free kick counts are a legitimate result of one side gain after the ball more.

 

[gringo2011]

Steele 6 tackles, Gresham 5 tackles that shows who out of our mids were putting in.

It isn't just the number of tackles though, it is how well they tackle, Seb Ross made 3 tackles but they aren't hard tackles, they shrug him off too easily.

That's why it's a shame that Dunstan is injured as we could do with him now instead of Ross, Dunstan makes more tackles and they are hard tackles.

Battle only made 2 tackles before he went off injured but he made one of the best tackles I've seen, drove a Crows player backwards and dumped him.

Tackling is an underrated skill, I grew up playing rugby and you learn the art of tackling, it's not just a defensive weapon it's an offensive weapon too.

Gresham played really well, his numbers weren't huge but his impact was, some of the clean centre breaks after shrugging off tackles were elite. Especially when we needed some one to take control when the game was in the balance.

 

[gringo2011]

Not dissimilar to Theodore, Manzie and Trott for the much older fans.

That's a bit before my time, I thought they were those singing chipmunks.

 

[Palantine]

Great to see Coffark both looking the real deal and well worth the high selections.

The passion from Howard was unreal.

Would like to see them stick with Byrnes but sounds like Sincs had a big scratchy.

So happy we turned the screw rather than fold at the end.


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[Xxxx66]

For me, the barometer, or key variable for the saints is goal kicking and pressure. If we turn up and apply some heat, we restrict the opposition.
If we take our opportunities in front of goal we usually win.
Two clutch goals from Kent, the two from Max and the one from Howard, are the sort of shots that have been misses in the past.
Need to work on Gresh though!

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Hill won’t get dropped.
Ross shouldn’t play next week but if Sinclair is the answer to Ross then we’re in trouble.

 

[Palantine]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet but teams don't want Max jumping at the ball... As a result he gets absolutely molested and the umps don't pay it..

Would love to see Ratts put some acid on them after a game, purely for awareness

Or just before a game.


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[Phoenix_9]

Aren't they calling it from Vic while watching it on a TV screen? Got to be challenging.

Yeah, would be harder but I still think it’s poor from Eddie. I noticed it last year too...

 

[Grav]

What a great win, a different style of play to what we have seen & thought the team battled it out well.
Below is my view on how I saw the players through the night, some of you may disagree but as I said it is my view.

Josh Battle. Injured early

Jack Billings. Quiet, but in his defence there was a lot of traffic on the wings during the night, hard to get away when that occurs.

Dan Butler. Started the game well & was dangerous throughout the game to keep the Crows on their toes.

Ryan Byrnes. All at sea in first game at top level, will be better for the run.

Jake Carlisle. Mr. Ever Reliable, seems to be enjoying footy this season with him & Howard turning into a formidable duo.

Hunter Clark. Quieter than normal, but when every player is out on the wing/flank hard to be a star.

Nick Coffield. Absolute stunner of a game, marked anything that came near him, amazing what a bit of confidence can do.

Jarryn Geary. Another great stopping role, love him or hate him, you cannot question his courage. Thought he stood up as a leader tonight.

Jade Gresham. Great game from Gresh all night,never stopped running, his only downfall is his kicking.

Bradley Hill. Thought Hilly played a pretty good game tonight, stats may not add up but he was up & about for most of the night.

Dougal Howard. Would have missed out on any Brownlow votes for giving the umpire a serve, but who cares backmen dont win Brownlows, an exceptional game.

Zak Jones. Got us up & running early, eased off after 1/2 time but was thereabouts all night

Dean Kent. Hardly sighted early, but came alive when he needed to late in the game.

Max King. If his name was Tex Walker, he would have had a dozen free kicks dead in front. First quarter great, double teamed & scragged remainder of game.

Jack Lonie. Does some good things off the ball that goes unnoticed, may need a break

Rowan Marshall. Hard to judge on last nights form, struggled up front.

Tim Membrey. Beaten on the night, but when the game had to be won he stepped up to the plate.

Ben Paton. Couldn’t see why everyone raved about him, but has turned into a very reliable defender, another who has been given a chance & now confident that he belongs.

Sebastian Ross. Was put on notice the week before. Disappointing

Jack Steele. Wow!!! What a solid game, but I suppose we all expect that from Jack. BOG

Callum Wilkie. One of the most reliable defenders in the league, another solid performance.

 

[BigPowerForward]

A few observations from last night
1. The umpires had a mare and it impacted both teams. The Butler deliberate out of bounds free kick was a shocker.
I get that the AFL is trying to reduce congestion by tightening up the holding the ball interpretation but it is just a band aid fix and leads to more confusion. The AFL needs to grow a set and reduce the amount of interchanges significantly, so that fatigue once again becomes a factor in games.
2. We got challenged and held our nerve. Usually we get challenged and turn the ball over, resulting in a goal that gives the opposition huge momentum. Last night we created the turnover that resulted in an important goal that stopped Adelaide's momentum and sealed the game
3. Ben Keays current hairstyle has a bit of Eddie Munster about it.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Good win - solid all round performance by the team. Umpiring just plain weird - they are human and having the crowd screaming for the first time for the year may have played with their heads.

Interesting to see the change of tactics from Ratts - clearly working on slowing it down at times. makes the games look slow and ponderous with no attack coming from half back preferring the safe kick down the lines. Like all things - when you try change something you invariably go too far the wrong way at times.

People get caught up on repeat i50's at times but unless they are scoring goals its a bit of a furphy. Kick a point - opposition kicks out to where you've set up your defence and you get another i50 - rinse and repeat - then get beaten on the fast break - goal to opposition. Looked like the Crows were "dominating" where in actual fact they simply couldn't score.

Seb's form is a real worry especially with Dunny out - when we get to the cluster of games, the mids will need a break at some point and our depth there is poor to start with.

If I was Ratts I'd be quietly asking whether chopping Max Kings arms will ever be a free kick. Ryder was great last night, Marshall looks totally out of form - not sure whats going on there.

Butler has an amazing ability to get to the contests and be in exactly the right spot. Clearly our best small forward.

Not sure if I'd change much next week - would be unfair to drop Byrnes after one game - if they reckon he was good enough to play yesterday - he's still good enough to play next week.

Sinclair for Battle.

 

[Ads734]

Steele 6 tackles, Gresham 5 tackles that shows who out of our mids were putting in.

It isn't just the number of tackles though, it is how well they tackle, Seb Ross made 3 tackles but they aren't hard tackles, they shrug him off too easily.

That's why it's a shame that Dunstan is injured as we could do with him now instead of Ross, Dunstan makes more tackles and they are hard tackles.

Battle only made 2 tackles before he went off injured but he made one of the best tackles I've seen, drove a Crows player backwards and dumped him.

Tackling is an underrated skill, I grew up playing rugby and you learn the art of tackling, it's not just a defensive weapon it's an offensive weapon too.

Incorrect a tackle tallied by champion data only counts if no possesion if no kick or handball is made. If the oppositin player shrugs off the tackle it wont count as a stat but rather a pressure point

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Every year we make Tex Walker look like Carey before he turns into a giant inbred teapot headed oaf again a week later.

I loved this comment from the Game Thread last night Gringo.

Just can’t get that image out of my head

 

[gringo2011]

Genuine question. Which of the 6 goal free kicks were not free kicks? I recall the 50m, it was definately there, Hill was about 3 metres from the kicker.

It's the ones not our way that were the same. King would have had 3 shots on goal if they were.

 

[Ads734]

We've really got to sort out the patches in games especially in the third where we struggle to get the ball out of defence. Perhaps we need Billings or Hill to set up behind and be the kicking option because when we go slow we end up stagnant and just give the opposition chances to score.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What a great win, a different style of play to what we have seen & thought the team battled it out well.
Below is my view on how I saw the players through the night, some of you may disagree but as I said it is my view.

Josh Battle. Injured early

Jack Billings. Quiet, but in his defence there was a lot of traffic on the wings during the night, hard to get away when that occurs.

Dan Butler. Started the game well & was dangerous throughout the game to keep the Crows on their toes.

Ryan Byrnes. All at sea in first game at top level, will be better for the run.

Jake Carlisle. Mr. Ever Reliable, seems to be enjoying footy this season with him & Howard turning into a formidable duo.

Hunter Clark. Quieter than normal, but when every player is out on the wing/flank hard to be a star.

Nick Coffield. Absolute stunner of a game, marked anything that came near him, amazing what a bit of confidence can do.

Jarryn Geary. Another great stopping role, love him or hate him, you cannot question his courage. Thought he stood up as a leader tonight.

Jade Gresham. Great game from Gresh all night,never stopped running, his only downfall is his kicking.

Bradley Hill. Thought Hilly played a pretty good game tonight, stats may not add up but he was up & about for most of the night.

Dougal Howard. Would have missed out on any Brownlow votes for giving the umpire a serve, but who cares backmen dont win Brownlows, an exceptional game.

Zak Jones. Got us up & running early, eased off after 1/2 time but was thereabouts all night

Dean Kent. Hardly sighted early, but came alive when he needed to late in the game.

Max King. If his name was Tex Walker, he would have had a dozen free kicks dead in front. First quarter great, double teamed & scragged remainder of game.

Jack Lonie. Does some good things off the ball that goes unnoticed, may need a break

Rowan Marshall. Hard to judge on last nights form, struggled up front.

Tim Membrey. Beaten on the night, but when the game had to be won he stepped up to the plate.

Ben Paton. Couldn’t see why everyone raved about him, but has turned into a very reliable defender, another who has been given a chance & now confident that he belongs.

Sebastian Ross. Was put on notice the week before. Disappointing

Jack Steele. Wow!!! What a solid game, but I suppose we all expect that from Jack. BOG

Callum Wilkie. One of the most reliable defenders in the league, another solid performance.

Steele ? Solid? He got 20 contested possessions. !!!!! 20 of 26 !!!. and his 13 clearances were nearly double anyone elses on the the ground.
4th for meters gained. Brilliant game by Steele.

 

[gringo2011]

We've really got to sort out the patches in games especially in the third where we struggle to get the ball out of defence. Perhaps we need Billings or Hill to set up behind and be the kicking option because when we go slow we end up stagnant and just give the opposition chances to score.

We missed a line breaking defensive runner last night. Long, Savage or Webster all play that run and carry from defence role well. We had a few guys drop back like Hill at one point but you realise it's not the easiest role. A good 30 meter run and a long kick can break the zone right open as it drops to the right spot to pull the defence forward and gives you space inside 50 with little time to reset.

 

[sobraz]

Lonie is playing like a guy who knows his days are numbered.
A handful of possessions means he needs to kick goals. His desperation in stealing the free kick & his no-hope 50m shot, not to mention his exuberant celebration after the one he did kick, all scream desperation to stay relevant.
For mine his time is up. We need someone, anyone who can contribute more & less focus on the individual.

*his over the head tap in the first qtr was great.


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[gringo2011]

Steele ? Solid? He got 20 contested possessions. !!!!! 20 of 26 !!!. and his 13 clearances were nearly double anyone elses on the the ground.
4th for meters gained. Brilliant game by Steele.

It looked like his best game by far, he blanketed a gun high possession mid while gorging himself on quality possession. Hardly wasted a possession. It wasn't just the possession count, it was the sublime use. Crouch got equally high numbers but went at about 27% efficiency or something. I can't recall Steele turning a kick or handball over at all.

Howard and him both easily played their best games so far for us. I have been hard on Howard but now I see what the fuss was about. Carlisle and him are a scary combination. They just mopped up everything Adelaide sent inside 50. They'd drive you nuts as forwards. Then little Coffield was running around doing the same thing. They sat on Wilkie to stop his distribution but others just stepped up.

 

[#gosaintas]

Thought it was a good win. Scrappy but we got the job done. Ross has to go, would be better off with Clarke/Byrnes than him. Lonie should go also. Well done to Gresh, just kept pushing us fwd. Steele should be made at least co-captain today. Ratts should talk to the umps re. the treatment of King. Backline looks really good with lots of good overhead markers down there. Geary should always play defensive fwd and never be allowed in the backline again. Pity we lost Battle and hopefully he comes up for this week along with Hannas. Anybody who's carrying a niggle/tiredness should get a rest this week 'cos let's face it we will lose anyway. Maybe give Marshall a rest.

 

[luca77]

Morning all, watched the replay late last night.

Wowee. That umpiring.
That umpire that looks a little bit like Hawkeye gone wrong was the worst culprit.
I've heard lots of people saying "It went both ways" e.t.c. Jesus, most of their bloody goals came from umpiring decisions that were either BS or dubious.
We got one back with the Hill HTB, just as well.

Anyway, I'm sure there's been lots of love for Steele, Doogs and Coff. I hope people are giving Carlisle some love. People are quick to pan him when he has an ordinary one. He was an absolute boss last night.

About the rucks. I'm seeing heaps of Ryder/No Ryder on social media this morning. Does it have to be so black and white? All the commentators and half the posters seem to be discussing Ryder or no Ryder. How about 'sometimes Ryder'? Marshall struggled alone last week, so Ryder came in yesterday. Gives Marshall some support, takes some pressure off, helps us win the game, especially with his dominance in Q4. Maybe that dominance in Q4 was partly because the Crows ruck started to tire after taking on 2 rucks all game. We might have a lot of games crammed in this season, so I'm all for Ryder playing about 1/3 up to 1/2 of our games, with Marshall being given the solo duties in the rest.

Ryder (and this dilemma) won't be around forever, and we need games in him to keep him fit and sharp and motivated. If Marshall goes down, he's our #1 ruck so give him some runs, I say.

 

[Saintbloke]

I reckon people are getting carried away with chopping of Kingy's arms in marking contests- the fact is, he is getting good purchase on the ball, but not holding the marks in many cases- maybe needs to wear gloves, plus he dropped a sitter chest mark in front of goals early. I think as he he builds up his strength and confidence, then he will hold those marks, so we just need to be patient.

 

[LeonardHayes87]

King will rip a game to shreds at some point this season... the hard part is getting into the right spot in the contest, he just needs some confidence in his dukes.

There were a couple of times tonight where he made an All Australian full back in Talia look second rate.

 

[PostmanBish]

Umpiring was absolutely horrendous. 6 of Adelaide's 8 goals came directly from free kicks/50m penalties. They had a couple of shockers go against them (Walker non mark and Hill non HTB) but were largely kept in the game by the umps.

That was the sort of game that makes you suspect that at their annual medical the doctor goes in with an elbow-length glove ...

Big chance for Ross to stand up and cement himself as a leader and he failed completely. I'd drop him for Hanners and give Byrnes another run. The kid was clearly off the pace but I remember thinking the same thing about Gresham in his first few games but then he picked up the pace and became a handy contributor.

I would probably give Byrnes a week off against Port to watch and learn, but he'll only get onto the pace by playing games - so we need to play him strategically until he finds his feet. He certainly didn't look too far off, but things like the quicker pressure at the top end were throwing him - might need to look at high-pressure drills for him?

Lonie took two shots he had absolutely no business taking. He should never have tried kicking one from 50m and it was selfish and stupid for him to claim the kick from the boundary line on his wrong side instead of Gresh. Must be dropped after that. Hind or Sinclair to replace him. Kent saved a largely crap game with two good goals in the final quarter.

I'm less upset by the boundary line - he's kicked those before, but he knows damn well that the 50-line is pushing it, and he should have gone top of the square - he probably heard my comments on that all the way from Ballarat

I really don't care that Ryder is a better tap ruckman than Marshall. Give me 18 disposals, 25 hitouts, 4 marks and 5 clearances from Marshall rucking solo rather than getting a similar return plus 10 more hitouts from both players. Marshall was our best player last year as a 23 year old solo ruckman, why waste him in a third forward/backup ruck role?

I don't know what we do here ... no doubt in my mind that what Ryder gave us last night was very, very good, and he's an Adelaide Oval specialist, without a doubt.

I know Marshall is absolutely our future, and we should be signing him for as long as possible ... but Ryder will have a role to play - probably less as we go through 2021, barring injuries to RoMa. Hopefully he is also putting a heap of work into Bell and Alabakis so our depth is set for the next decade (bigger picture thinking)

I'll be surprised if Ryder doesn't clock up his 250th this year, and even more surprised if our super-smart youngster doesn't work out how to work with him - I still see this as a work in progress which has plenty to offer in the right games.

Steele, Coffield, Howard, Carlisle, Butler all very good. Jones looked like he was going to have a career best game after the first quarter but largely disappeared after that - may have had an issue with a sore knee that looked to be giving him grief at the quarter time break?

Jones really looked hampered after quarter time - was it my imagination, or did he spend quite a bit of time around HBF, which seemed to throw our structures out until we figured it out?

Butler is the pick-up of 2020 at this stage, with Howard not far behind ... I'm liking that Howard has a stock of angry pills to rival Carlisle - I'd be a lot less happy if he gave up that 50m Penalty in the centre square and got marched forward, but strategically, with the guy 25 out, it was the right time to let the umpires know he knew EXACTLY what they were trying to pull ... I really wouldn't want to meet a fired-up Dougal post-match - so I reckon the road from the umpires rooms to the airport was one massive skidmark

Jake is looking like the back is 100%, and he's out there doing everything he can to disrupt in the backline, while I'm loving Coffield's development from potential to present - most improved for mine.

Clark and Paton have faded a little as the season has progressed - they might need a spell given the quick turnaround. Could wait and see what the following fixture is looking like as well. Billings had his worst game for the year and will be keen to atone. Hoping Battle was taken out as a precautionary measure and will be right to go. Hill did a little more than in some weeks but still hasn't hit his straps.

Paton was pretty solid ... Clarke is usually doing a few good things, and I'd persevere with them both. Battle looked like a trooper post-match - and his early intimidation was good stuff, so co-sign on hoping he gets up. Hill looked better, but ain't getting enough ball.

Changes I'd like to see

Out: Ross, Lonie, Ryder
In: Hannebery, Hind, Sinclair

I note that Lycett + Dixon/Westhoff really towelled up Mummy when they played GWS - probably a good game to have RoMa solo-ruck - Carlisle seems very willing to pitch in down the defensive end now that the body is right, while King, bless him, is doing the team thing inside attacking 50, even though he doesn't yet have the body for it - he bleeds red/white/black from every pore.

This team learns more about itself in every game ... let's hope they can put four good quarters together against Port - AO is practically home ground advantage for us now ... feed off the hatred