Autopsy Round 9, 2023: Adelaide v St.Kilda *SINCLAIR 150TH*

[Premium]

I knew the midfield looked suspiciously like fish dressed up.

We know from previous years Ross , Crouch , Steele do a job but get found out when a team have elite talent and speed.
As they say you can't do the same thing every time when it really doesn't work , we break even at best and then have to rely on winning in others positions to win.
They have to make the call and change the midfield set up - Sinclair is far better than anyone we have in there atm.
And Windhager and Owens have more strength in contests than all of them , Phillpou will be the topping on the cake but let's just give the kid time to develop first.
Even Bytel had just about more meters gain in one quarter than half the team in 4 quarters (nearly)and has to be given a proper go , he could do a Parish.
Ross has the chance to do what the last few coaches never attempted.

 

[OxSaint]

As much as I love watching our mid sized players like Pou, Owen’s, Wood, Membrey and Sharman I feel we are too heavy in that size range. We lack agility and pressure and they are all going for marks along with Caminiti. Adelaide looked like they were out numbering us around the ball but often is was because we had so many contest the ball in the air.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Something has to give in that old man midfield, at least one of Windy or Bytel has to be playing full-time minutes.

Paton looks miles off it. Howard atrocious. Forward line also out of whack.

If we won't drop a Ross/Crouch/Steele why not send one to the backline and get Windy in the mids full-time.

So:

Paton out for Windy (Ross to take Paton's role)
Membrey out for King.
Howard out forever, sorry, for Webster.
Sharman out for Billings.

Plenty of others on notice, can't believe how average Steele is tracking, Gresh straight in when fit and Bytel waiting in the wings.

 

[Premium]

Adelaide spread better and because we missed tackles they got the ball on the outside and then moved it on with precision. It was awesome and awful to watch as they just sliced us open again and again.

Yet when we did it, it was always to a contest which caused a stoppage. We seemed to be able to win the clearances but turned it over on the next kick and away they spread to Tex et al.

We had some big momentum killers in the third and that stopped any chance of a comeback. That allowed Crows to just run with limited consequences which (Scoreboard pressure) just made our position worse.

We need more aggression around the ball.....Windhager brings that just who you omit....Ross Byrnes...difficult call.

Webster and Billings are better ball users for Paton and Sharman.

King for Membrey. Then where do we put Gresham give Steele a break or perhaps Butler?

Hope this is not just deckchairs arranging.

RTB will start earning his money from now. His press conference stressed how good the second quarter was and not much else. Not sure that sentiment will be shared on Monday.

Poor result and we did not turn up against a red hot Adelaide.



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Steele is just not producing and only playing 66% game time , so something is going on there - Clark is just to one placed and if he has to chase forget it. Ross is just a blue collar mid who is just a battler - and as we know young better talent comes in every year so you can't be sentimental about the players , cut and thrust calls that have to be made.

 

[Premium]

Something has to give in that old man midfield, at least one of Windy or Bytel has to be playing full-time minutes.

Paton looks miles off it. Howard atrocious. Forward line also out of whack.

If we won't drop a Ross/Crouch/Steele why not send one to the backline and get Windy in the mids full-time.

So:

Paton out for Windy (Ross to take Paton's role)
Membrey out for King.
Howard out forever, sorry, for Webster.
Sharman out for Billings.

Plenty of others on notice, Gresh and Bytel waiting in the wings.

Time to make the tough calls after a poor performance against the Roos and now this shocker.
Anyway we will see how the coaches perform when having to make these calls.

 

[gubby88]

Stocker Howard Wilkie
NWM Battle Webster
Hill Sinclair Wood
Higgins Caminetti Owens
Butler King Sharman
Marshall Crouch Windhager

Byrnes, Phillipou, Billings, Ross (Paton)

Ins - King, Windhager, Billings, Webster
Outs - Bytel (omitted), Membrey (concussion), Steele (knee)



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[Premium]

Stocker Howard Wilkie
NWM Battle Webster
Hill Sinclair Wood
Higgins Caminetti Owens
Butler King Sharman
Marshall Crouch Windhager

Byrnes, Phillipou, Billings, Ross (Paton)

Ins - King, Windhager, Billings, Webster
Outs - Bytel (omitted), Membrey (concussion), Steele (knee)



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HaHa - Cairnsman is going to love Clark dropped for Sharman

 

[gubby88]

HaHa - Cairnsman is going to love Clark dropped for Sharman

Hahaha bloody hell, I forgot Clark

Need a three pronged tall forward though. Especially with one ruck.

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[StFly]

Something has to give in that old man midfield, at least one of Windy or Bytel has to be playing full-time minutes.

Paton looks miles off it. Howard atrocious. Forward line also out of whack.

If we won't drop a Ross/Crouch/Steele why not send one to the backline and get Windy in the mids full-time.

So:

Paton out for Windy (Ross to take Paton's role)
Membrey out for King.
Howard out forever, sorry, for Webster.
Sharman out for Billings.

Plenty of others on notice, can't believe how average Steele is tracking, Gresh straight in when fit and Bytel waiting in the wings.

Paton out for Webster, Ross to sub, Members for King, Sharman for Windy out of that list.

Billings needs to pull a digit out and demand it, should be in prime mover category at this stage and is not even looking it so needs to find touch or might as well play one short.

Regardless how Howard played, he's not getting dropped and we're not junking multiple defenders in one week.

I'd Bytel for Steele at present, Steele is just jogging along and did have strapping in this match so could just go bike it for a week or two and recover similar to Gresh this week who just failed a test and sat out whilst Row played.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Very average day at the office today

We are going to lose games .... every team does ..... but not like that even in Adelaide

Hopefully we can take something out of it and learn

Onto GWS which is now a must win

We should get King back but they should get Greene back as well

Windy, Webster, Billings & Gresh could come back in ..... we need a freshen up

 

[jh38]

We know from previous years Ross , Crouch , Steele do a job but get found out when a team have elite talent and speed.
As they say you can't do the same thing every time when it really doesn't work , we break even at best and then have to rely on winning in others positions to win.
They have to make the call and change the midfield set up - Sinclair is far better than anyone we have in there atm.
And Windhager and Owens have more strength in contests than all of them , Phillpou will be the topping on the cake but let's just give the kid time to develop first.
Even Bytel had just about more meters gain in one quarter than half the team in 4 quarters (nearly)and has to be given a proper go , he could do a Parish.
Ross has the chance to do what the last few coaches never attempted.

Our problem is our lack of versatility from our full time mids. This restricts our ability to through change up players in there. If we push Crouch out mid game then where does he play? The same can be said about Steele and Ross. Clark often ends up on half back if Sincs goes in, it would be nice if we could do the same with Steele and Pou/ Owens.

 

[Username Unknown]

I came into this game thinking we were going to have a decent loss. Probably due to last weeks performance and the match up against the crows.

The way we were playing with cohesion, with intent and belief has left us the past three games. Which is really frustrating but it was always going to happen once teams found out how to play against us. I am backing them in find new ways to win as we grow as a team. It is still such early early days.

Around the contest today our positioning was shocking, the crows kept getting the ball out with out players standing flat footed and in the wrong place, they kept managing to find space on the spread and it was disappointing that the boys couldn’t react in the moment to block up that space/stop their game plan.

We seem to get beaten by the teams with those big body and aggressive players. Who can step up in that space? Steele could of, but he has lost weight, owens can but we are killing his out put by playing him in the ruck. Which is why we need to find a decent second ruck.

We have the talent in our team but we need more aggression. Or is it a case when the skill/game plan come together we will be fine? Because we matched up well against Collingwood in the regard of game style and how the style of aggression both teams played with. It wasn’t until port, north and Adelaide we struggled. Who all those teams have the alpha type players who are hard at the ball. Freo, dogs, Carlton, Gold Coast, Collingwood, Essendon are teams who win on skills and team pressure. Not brute force. Which is why I don’t think these loses and our shocking win last week are as bad as they look once this groups keeps growing and our young players put on muscle.

We need a full back, I am not confident with Howard down there. He can’t handle players like Hawkins, Walker and Dixon ect. He would be a weapon at chb. I think taking the pressure away from him being the last line in defence against those types of players will allow him to play to his strengths and maybe his skills will clean up when he isn’t under so much pressure.

As we get players back we should still make the 8. This year will be good year of growth, learning the right game plan and buying into the system.

We will find out who the players who will help us move forward and the ones who won’t. We will bring in the right players who fill the gaps of what we are missing.

A couple of players that I am unsure on moving forward

Higgins: while he has been kicking goals, he is influenced by the momentum of the game to much and struggles against the aggressive oppo. Every time he falls to the ground or is in a contest, he looks hurt. Even if it isn’t a big contest. It is a small thing but i don’t think it helps mentality.

Paton: a few years ago he looked really solid. Hasn’t been the same player after breaking his leg.

Gresh: His field kicking sucks, his shit attitude reverted back after one game and other players in the team have game winning abilities/ X factor now which was his biggest value

Sharman: unless he becomes more aggressive, he has the skill set but is too laid back. It was good to see that spoil he did towards the end of the game and the look on his face after.

I will back them in for the rest of the season aside from maybe Gresh as I think he has been pretty consistent with his kicking letting him down and he has value to get some thing back.

All in all, there is some really exciting talent that is currently playing in our team. Also players who are currently injured and rookies who haven’t had a look yet. Getting stability in off field positions will help as well.

Keen to see how the rest of the year unfolds and what happens during the trade period/draft.

 

[Premium]

Paton out for Webster, Ross to sub, Members for King, Sharman for Windy out of that list.

Billings needs to pull a digit out and demand it, should be in prime mover category at this stage and is not even looking it so needs to find touch or might as well play one short.

Regardless how Howard played, he's not getting dropped and we're not junking multiple defenders in one week.

I'd Bytel for Steele at present, Steele is just jogging along and did have strapping in this match so could just go bike it for a week or two and recover similar to Gresh this week who just failed a test and sat out whilst Row played.

agree with this

 

[tomjoad]

I wasn't one of them, he is still a classy player, he didn't go at pick 3 for no reason, he would make us a better team if he can get back to his best.

I will be disappointed if he doesn't get a game for us soon, we aren't playing well enough to leave a guy with his talent just wasting away in the VFL.

Talent...yep. Skill...yep. Ability...yep. Also prone to Flakiness and a career's worth of evidence of being fragile. He has had his time to shine...instead he flickered briefly and blew out.

 

[jh38]

We need a full back, I am not confident with Howard down there. He can’t handle players like Hawkins, Walker and Dixon ect. He would be a weapon at chb. I think taking the pressure away from him being the last line in defence against those types of players will allow him to play to his strengths and maybe his skills will clean up when he isn’t under so much pressure.

He plays his best footy zoning off but we don't have the cattle to allow that, nor do I think we ever will. If he was to zone off and play as the spare then we'd need another key back. Don't think its really plausible to play 4 key backs. The writing is on the wall.

 

[The Cobra]

Wonder whether the abrupt departure of Walsh has had a negative impact? Our loss of form over the last 3 games seems to have coincided - maybe just a coincidence?

 

[Premium]

I came into this game thinking that we were going to have a decent loss. Most likely due to last weeks performance and the way we matched up

The way we were playing with cohesion, with intent and belief has left us the past three games. Which is really frustrating but it was always going to happen once teams found out how to play against us. I am backing them in find new ways to win as we grow as a team. It is still such early early days.

Around the contest today our positioning was shocking, the crows kept getting the ball out with out players standing flat footed and in the wrong place, they kept managing to find space on the spread and it was disappointing that the boys couldn’t react in the moment to block up that space/stop their game plan.

We seem to get beaten by the teams with those big body and aggressive players. Who can step up in that space? Steele could of, but he has lost weight, owens can but we are killing his out put by playing him in the ruck. Which is why we need to find a decent second ruck.

We have the talent in our team but we need more aggression. Or is it a case when the skill/game plan come together we will be fine? Because we matched up well against Collingwood in the regard of game style and how the style of aggression both teams played with. It wasn’t until port, north and Adelaide we struggled. Who all those teams have the alpha type players who are hard at the ball. Freo, dogs, Carlton, Gold Coast, Collingwood, Essendon are teams who win on skills and team pressure. Not brute force. Which is why I don’t think these loses and our shocking win last week are as bad as they look once this groups keeps growing and our young players put on muscle.

We need a full back, I am not confident with Howard down there. He can’t handle players like Hawkins, Walker and Dixon ect. He would be a weapon at chb. I think taking the pressure away from him being the last line in defence against those types of players will allow him to play to his strengths and maybe his skills will clean up when he isn’t under so much pressure.

As we get players back we should still make the 8. This year will be good year of growth, learning the right game plan and buying into the system.

We will find out who the players who will help us move forward and the ones who won’t. We will bring in the right players who fill the gaps of what we are missing.

A couple of players that I am unsure on moving forward

Higgins: while he has been kicking goals, he is influenced by the momentum of the game to much and struggles against the aggressive oppo. Every time he falls to the ground or is in a contest, he looks hurt. Even if it isn’t a big contest. It is a small thing but i don’t think it helps mentality.

Paton: a few years ago he looked really solid. Hasn’t been the same player after breaking his leg.

Gresh: His field kicking sucks, his s**t attitude reverted back after one game and other players in the team have game winning abilities/ X factor now which was his biggest value

Sharman: unless he becomes more aggressive, he has the skill set but is too laid back. It was good to see that spoil he did towards the end of the game and the look on his face after.

I will back them in for the rest of the season aside from maybe Gresh as I think he has been pretty consistent with his kicking letting him down and he has value to get some thing back.

All in all, there is some really exciting talent that is currently playing in our team. Also players who are currently injured and rookies who haven’t had a look yet. Getting stability in off field positions will help as well.

Keen to see how the rest of the year unfolds and what happens during the trade period/draft.

No reason we can't turn it around from here , where still in the 8 and we have our best forward out in King , Steele playing like a slug , Membery no where near what he can do , Gresham still to get going and a part from this Lyons game plan has been looked at by every club and now they have to make adjustment's to allow spread and carry across the field.
Now Ross Lyon is going to have to work for his money - you have to have a few more moves to change a game.

 

[JeffreyCC]

Boys played defense like extras in a Bruce Lee movie.

 

[MrFoster]

Adelaide spread better and because we missed tackles they got the ball on the outside and then moved it on with precision. It was awesome and awful to watch as they just sliced us open again and again.

Yet when we did it, it was always to a contest which caused a stoppage. We seemed to be able to win the clearances but turned it over on the next kick and away they spread to Tex et al.

We had some big momentum killers in the third and that stopped any chance of a comeback. That allowed Crows to just run with limited consequences which (Scoreboard pressure) just made our position worse.

We need more aggression around the ball.....Windhager brings that just who you omit....Ross Byrnes...difficult call.

Webster and Billings are better ball users for Paton and Sharman.

King for Membrey. Then where do we put Gresham give Steele a break or perhaps Butler?

Hope this is not just deckchairs arranging.

RTB will start earning his money from now. His press conference stressed how good the second quarter was and not much else. Not sure that sentiment will be shared on Monday.

Poor result and we did not turn up against a red hot Adelaide.



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We really need to rotate Bytel, Windy, Owens, Philippou, Gresham, Byrnes with Steele, Ross, Crouch and Clark, and find out what works.

If we’re looking for contested possessions and clean disposals, then it’s Bytel, Philippou, if it’s dynamic mids who can run away from clearances, it’s Windy and Brynes. And Owens is our wildcard.

 

[DougalHoward]

Could stocker play mid?

 

[The Cobra]

Could stocker play mid?

Other than Sinclair I don’t think they want to play around with the defence too much - stability generates confidence, connection & understanding amongst the defenders.

 

[gringo2011]

I came into this game thinking that we were going to have a decent loss. Most likely due to last weeks performance and the way we matched up

The way we were playing with cohesion, with intent and belief has left us the past three games. Which is really frustrating but it was always going to happen once teams found out how to play against us. I am backing them in find new ways to win as we grow as a team. It is still such early early days.

Around the contest today our positioning was shocking, the crows kept getting the ball out with out players standing flat footed and in the wrong place, they kept managing to find space on the spread and it was disappointing that the boys couldn’t react in the moment to block up that space/stop their game plan.

We seem to get beaten by the teams with those big body and aggressive players. Who can step up in that space? Steele could of, but he has lost weight, owens can but we are killing his out put by playing him in the ruck. Which is why we need to find a decent second ruck.

We have the talent in our team but we need more aggression. Or is it a case when the skill/game plan come together we will be fine? Because we matched up well against Collingwood in the regard of game style and how the style of aggression both teams played with. It wasn’t until port, north and Adelaide we struggled. Who all those teams have the alpha type players who are hard at the ball. Freo, dogs, Carlton, Gold Coast, Collingwood, Essendon are teams who win on skills and team pressure. Not brute force. Which is why I don’t think these loses and our shocking win last week are as bad as they look once this groups keeps growing and our young players put on muscle.

We need a full back, I am not confident with Howard down there. He can’t handle players like Hawkins, Walker and Dixon ect. He would be a weapon at chb. I think taking the pressure away from him being the last line in defence against those types of players will allow him to play to his strengths and maybe his skills will clean up when he isn’t under so much pressure.

As we get players back we should still make the 8. This year will be good year of growth, learning the right game plan and buying into the system.

We will find out who the players who will help us move forward and the ones who won’t. We will bring in the right players who fill the gaps of what we are missing.

A couple of players that I am unsure on moving forward

Higgins: while he has been kicking goals, he is influenced by the momentum of the game to much and struggles against the aggressive oppo. Every time he falls to the ground or is in a contest, he looks hurt. Even if it isn’t a big contest. It is a small thing but i don’t think it helps mentality.

Paton: a few years ago he looked really solid. Hasn’t been the same player after breaking his leg.

Gresh: His field kicking sucks, his s**t attitude reverted back after one game and other players in the team have game winning abilities/ X factor now which was his biggest value

Sharman: unless he becomes more aggressive, he has the skill set but is too laid back. It was good to see that spoil he did towards the end of the game and the look on his face after.

I will back them in for the rest of the season aside from maybe Gresh as I think he has been pretty consistent with his kicking letting him down and he has value to get some thing back.

All in all, there is some really exciting talent that is currently playing in our team. Also players who are currently injured and rookies who haven’t had a look yet. Getting stability in off field positions will help as well.

Keen to see how the rest of the year unfolds and what happens during the trade period/draft.

Rough on Higgins. He's our top scorer by a fair margin and kicked 3 on a day that hardly anyone else could get one.

 

[Premium]

Wonder whether the abrupt departure of Walsh has had a negative impact? Our loss of form over the last 3 games seems to have coincided - maybe just a coincidence?

Who knows what has been said behind closed doors - did Steele come back to early against Walshes advice , have they been pushing the players to hard - One thing I remember about Blight / when he joined the Crows he basically moved proven experienced players out of the side when he first got there to show he was willing to make moves other coaches would dare to do to upset the apple cart.
Has Ross done the same thing to shake up the list , telling a few of the experienced players to drop kg - Steele for example and Ross being a guy to call a spade a spade , what was really said on that tape that was put on the net - some people just cant take criticism.

We know what Ross Lyon is like and that is why we got him , he pushes the players where Ratten and Richardson were soft compared to him.

That is what they wanted , now the players have to put up or shut up or get there act together or get moved on.

Interesting the form of Steele , Membery , Gresham and Billings is no where it should be , have they had there cage rattled and are only just adjusting to the un-woke ways of Ross the Boss.

As Ross says he is only really just finding out what the list is like.

Whatever happens the team is heading in the right direction with NWM , Owens , Windhager , Phillpou , King and the adjustments made to the game plan will most probably take 3/4 of the season to tweak.

 

[MrFoster]

Could stocker play mid?

Good shout, he can play there in spurts I think. One other thing, how is Campbell as a tap ruckman? Marshall is not a tap ruckman even though he had 50 hit outs today, but he is no Ryder who constantly gives tap the ball directly to our mids streaming forward.

 

[Username Unknown]

Rough on Higgins. He's our top scorer by a fair margin and kicked 3 on a day that hardly anyone else could get one.

You are probably right. He does always Bob up and kick a few plus do some smart things