Saints v Pies: The Aftermath

[Rough_Edges]

While i know we are a young side and as supporters we expect this - I hope the coaches aren't using it as an excuse.

We've got a good mix of young/old and the way Collingwood cut through us and scored so easily all night was really poor.

Don't care if we get done by 10 goals if we have a crack, not sure everyone did last night.

 

[Rough_Edges]

It helped Grundy that Billy was unable to touch him with out giving away a free kick then when he did the same thing back it was okay. Mumford was able to just push him on the ground but apparently it's illegal now that he's the bigger player. At least three times Sinclair had players fall on his back for no free kicks. Savage got a huge hit from Cloke and will probably not be able to train for the week.

Hmmmm agree that Cloke got some very lucky 50/50s and the way Pendlebury is umpired these days is a joke - I thought the frees against Longer were fair enough albeit frustrating.

FWIW

Longer 3 FF, 3 FA
Grundy 2 FF, 4FA

To be honest, free kicks in ruck contests are quite frustrating because often they're grappling eachother.

 

[Kaboose]

Hilarious views on Schnieder. I think people are just annoyed because he's in the side. But are not actually looking at overall outpit.
For instance saying he played outside when half of his touches were contested?

First 2 games
50poss
9 tackles
2 goals

If he isn't in the side and Templeton, Curren, Minchinton or DMac are in... We lose by more...
If they are not as good.. They don't play. If any of those players got 28 we'd flip out.

Question
If Membrey cannot kick because he's played only 4 games... How did he kick that goal from 50?

Experience effects decision making... Not sure how it effects executing a skill? That has more to do with technique, talent and preparation.
Roo and Cloke have played a bit... They miss simple goals.

In regards to set shots at goal and the amount of AFL players who miss the simple ones I think mostly stems back to the coaching they received in junior Football. Mark Whealdon in his book,'The Art of Coaching', suggests that little or no time is allocated to teaching this skill at the junior level. I coach an under ten side and even at this early age after a few sessions on working on the proper technique of goall kicking their shots at goal have become increasingly more accurate.
In regards to the umpiring last night we need to get over it and work on the things that we can control.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Thought longer dominated grundy earlier,
But after the umps decided he was untouchable (along with pendlebury and cloke)
Grundy became an extra midfielder and longer who wasn't able to play to his strength was exposed.

 

[sverik25]

Bitterly disappointed as I thought we had a good chance last night. Reality of an inexperienced team I guess.

Fact of the matter is we were putrid after the first 20 minutes, but I can't help but feel that the umpires changed the course of the game in the second quarter. I also lost all respect for Pendlebury as a player with those ducks. Worse than Selwood's IMO.

Just wanted to add that I thought Roberton was very impressive again. Looks to have gotten over last years ankle issues.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Our forward line's experience before last night:

Bruce - 27 games
Billings - 17 games
Lonie - 2 Games
Sinclair - 2 games
McCartin - 0 games
Membrey - 3 games
Saad- 31 games (2 games since serving 18 month ban)

Definitely not surprised by the result having a look at that.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Bitterly disappointed as I thought we had a good chance last night. Reality of an inexperienced team I guess.

Fact of the matter is we were putrid after the first 20 minutes, but I can't help but feel that the umpires changed the course of the game in the second quarter. I also lost all respect for Pendlebury as a player with those ducks. Worse than Selwood's IMO.

Just wanted to add that I thought Roberton was very impressive again. Looks to have gotten over last years ankle issues.

Not only ducking but absolutely over-acting any contact.
I too lost respect for him after this game.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Our forward line's experience before last night:

Bruce - 27 games
Billings - 17 games
Lonie - 2 Games
Sinclair - 2 games
McCartin - 0 games
Membrey - 3 games
Saad- 31 games (2 games since serving 18 month ban)

Definitely not surprised by the result having a look at that.

They all did well. Killed in the midfield, never got there after qtr time.

 

[VDS66]

I might be on my Pat Malone here, but I reckon that what happens at one part of the ground effects other parts of the ground.

Mids effect defenders etc.

That's why I am loath to criticise individuals.

We can argue if Schneiders pass into the corridor was a good idea or not. But you also have to look at the player he was passing to and if they read it correctly. Maybe yes, maybe no.

If it had have come off, he would be labeled a genius... especially if it resulted on a shot on goal.

Maybe he was slow... or maybe he was just trying to steady the ship and make sure he took the right option?

These are sliding door moments in a game.

When you have a good team out there, everything becomes easier.

As i said earlier, we effectively had 18 players out there, given our selection of kids. That's almost 25% a VFL side... possibly more.

Not making excuses, just some perspective.

 

[Saint_Dos]

How long until teams start putting a forward tag on Savage?

Did he get a fwd tag on him in the 2nd qtr. Didn't seem as influential.

Reckon it will come quickly either way.

 

[Rough_Edges]

As i said earlier, we effectively had 18 players out there, given our selection of kids. That's almost 25% a VFL side... possibly more.

Not making excuses, just some perspective.

I can't agree with this point, I actually don't understand it?

How i see it is we see those kids as best 22 so they play.

If Richo thought they should be playing VFL, someone else would be in there.

 

[crasha301]

Watched the game last night with a fellow saint who is heavily involved with gippy power.

After the game he pointed something out.

Rnd 1 & 2 our new players were not respected.
collingwood done their homework and showed respect.

 

[Rough_Edges]

Did he get a fwd tag on him in the 2nd qtr. Didn't seem as influential.

Reckon it will come quickly either way.

Not sure if he got the forward tag but he gets a lot of his ball from handball receives.

We were so stagnant after Q Time this dried up.

He also copped a solid bump.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Watched the game last night with a fellow saint who is heavily involved with gippy power.

After the game he pointed something out.

Rnd 1 & 2 our new players were not respected.
collingwood done their homework and showed respect.

Part of their education isn't it - learning to cope with increased attention and pressure....how to break a tag.....how to find space against your opponent and so on...

agree with the sentiment on here.

Unfortunately with such a young and inexperienced side we're going to have games where we play like this and games liked round 2 against GC Suns. Remember Roo and Joey both out along with Ray and Gilbert. Roo & Joey would be very focal about where players should be placing themselves both offensively and defensively

*edit forgot Webster & Ross who are more experienced than some of the players we've got out there...if JWeb gets through his VFL match this weekend then he has to come in for mine....

 

[VDS66]

I can't agree with this point, I actually don't understand it?

How i see it is we see those kids as best 22 so they play.

If Richo thought they should be playing VFL, someone else would be in there.

Yes, they are probably best 22 available... but that doesn't make them any better. Fully fit, you'd have Ross, Roo, Ray, Joey, Gilbo and Webster in the team.

My point is about their game experience. You basically have a large slice of players who are still VFL level at best... at this stage of their careers.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[Rough_Edges]

Yes, they are probably best 22 available... but that doesn't make them any better. Fully fit, you'd have Ross, Roo, Ray, Joey, Gilbo and Webster in the team.

My point is about their game experience. You basically have a large slice of players who are still VFL level at best... at this stage of their careers.

Hope this clarifies.

Lol I now understand what your saying but it's pretty ludicrous

Sorry

 

[mysainters]

Watched the game last night with a fellow saint who is heavily involved with gippy power.

After the game he pointed something out.

Rnd 1 & 2 our new players were not respected.
collingwood done their homework and showed respect.

Said that to mum.

Especially Fred, were into him off the ball. He didn't get given his normal licence. I mean, Varcoe slapped him...

Already a barometer of sorts.

 

[VDS66]

Lol I now understand what your saying but it's pretty ludicrous

Sorry

So it's ludicrous to claim that we have a large portion of our best available 22 who have virtually zero experience, out there playing?

Okey dokes

 

[goodie23]

Rather than turn on each other like a pack of Carltank supporters, we should either talk up the positives or direct our vitriol in a more appropriate direction:

11 frees to 1 in the second term (and if I remember correctly that was an out on the full)
22 frees to 12 in the midfield throughout the game despite us being up on the tackle count by a fair margin until the last quarter blowout.
Filth got 5 free kicks inside 50. We got 0.

Any of those stats individually are pretty unattractive, together they print a damning picture. Leigh Fisher especially should hang his head in shame for going too far to not show favouritism. That kind of effort would break more experienced teams than the young outfit we had out there last night.

 

[mysainters]

Our midfield got slaughtered from rd 2.

Armo toiled, but others struggled.

Not much was done though.

Alan either let it happen, or was reluctant to change anything.

I'd have thrown others like Gears and Cam through the midfield, to give guys like Dunstan and Billings a chop out.

Teach them, but don't humiliate.

 

[Rough_Edges]

Our midfield got slaughtered from rd 2.

Armo toiled, but others struggled.

Not much was done though.

Alan either let it happen, or was reluctant to change anything.

I'd have thrown others like Gears and Cam through the midfield, to give guys like Dunstan and Billings a chop out.

Teach them, but don't humiliate.

Yeah it was odd that seemingly we didn't change much.

We didn't go to Swan. We didn't try and slow the game down, it was like Alan wanted to try and get the players to work through it.

Fwiw I thought Steven was very good for us in the guts as well.

 

[mysainters]

Rather than turn on each other like a pack of Carltank supporters, we should either talk up the positives or direct our vitriol in a more appropriate direction:

11 frees to 1 in the second term (and if I remember correctly that was an out on the full)
22 frees to 12 in the midfield throughout the game despite us being up on the tackle count by a fair margin until the last quarter blowout.
Filth got 5 free kicks inside 50. We got 0.

Any of those stats individually are pretty unattractive, together they print a damning picture. Leigh Fisher especially should hang his head in shame for going too far to not show favouritism. That kind of effort would break more experienced teams than the young outfit we had out there last night.

I'm loathe to blame umpires, but that second quarter was hard to watch.

Let's not just focus on that though, the second quarter marks inside 50 was +6 to the pies or something.

Inside 50's well up too...

We struggled to move the ball around the wings. Indecision crept in to our creative types.

 

[mysainters]

Yeah it was odd that seemingly we didn't change much.

We didn't go to Swan. We didn't try and slow the game down, it was like Alan wanted to try and get the players to work through it.

Fwiw I thought Steven was very good for us in the guts as well.

It was odd.

I'm not pointing the finger at just the inexperience of the players.

 

[Rough_Edges]

Can believe

1) you guys still let a troll hijack a thread. Put the peanut on ignore.

2) Cant believe you are letting said peanut troll you about Schneiders game.

He was very poor last night. Missed easy goals, made a shocking blunder for an easy Collingwood goal. With Roo out the kids needed leadership. He showed none.

Would drop him like a bad habit if Roo wasn't injured. Past it and bring very little to the team

Usually agree with a lot of what you write, however I can't agree with you RE. Schneider.

How did you gauge how well he was leading from the stands?

 

[Saintos The ITK]

It doesn't help that we fell back into our old habit of just blind bombing the ball out of defense and hoping a team mate catches it. It never seems to go to another
Saint.
When we work the ball back out rather than kick and hope we're a different side.