Saints v Pies: The Aftermath

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

I had a bit of a hissy fit on SS when a guy called Tony 74 who seems to be an insider and seems to claim to be very inner sanctum said we were concentrating on the Carlton game. I suggested it sounded like tanking and had a bit of a melt down. Anyway he is hopefully right now as I need to hope we had our foot off the pedal. He suggested we might be setting realistic goals of which ones we are likely to pick off and go extra hard at those.

Nothing to comment on your post only to say that Tony74 has a history of being in the know. I'm likely to believe him rather than not....

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Robbie Williams and Kylie Minogue said it best...

Kids?????

 

[mysainters]

Kids?????

Are alright...

 

[GammaScorpii]

Bruce pretty good???
2 kicks & 1 handball in a game is poor. He did finish with 2 goals but could have had much more influence.

I thought Bruce (and Membrey) did quite well considering how dry it was up forward. We were smashed in the centre after qrt time. I think in the 2nd quater we had only 3 clearances? It was insane. Our mids first of all couldn't get to the ball and in the off chance that it bounced their way, they fumbled. Having said that Longer played really well again.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Guys im curious does anyone know the age stats for last night? Avg Age / Avg games played between the 2 teams?

We got slaughtered on the Inside 50s. During the game, when i checked it was like a -50 differential which is really ridiculous.
This is the reality of things. Pressure Acts, Wining Contested ball, Tackling. All the things you need to do well for 4 quaters to be a good side. They did it well, we did it very poorly.. Young inexperienced team. Very greasy conditions. Pies applied tge right type of pressure and our players panic, lost their structures. Huge learning curve for us.

Not sure if anyone has answered your question as I haven't read the last 3-4 pages, but I posted the experience profile a few days ago, when it was suggested that we were the younger or less experienced team and it turned out that if the teams had lined up as named that we actually had the more experienced team, with 12 who had played 50 games playing (including 6 who had played 100+ and 3 who had played 200+), compared to just 9 for Collingwood (also 6 with 100+ and 2 over 200) who had played over 50 games. Once Roo dropped out late it obviously changed our top end experience count, but we still had 2 more out there that had played 50 games than they did and just about the same number of "kids", so that was why I was so incredibly disappointed by our "effort" and performance.

We of course kicked the first 3 goals of the game, so from that point on we were outscored by 92 points and that is in spite of the fact that Collingwood missed 5 sitters, including 3 from about 12m out, that any one of us could have kicked, so we were lucky to not be outscored by 120 or so points from the 5min mark of the game onwards. Given how Collingwood are such a young and inexperienced team like we are and the fact that they are likely to be a bottom 8 team, last night's performance from about half way through the first quarter would have to be pretty much on a par with our 145 point loss to Hawthorn last year, given how much better Hawthorn then were, compared to Collingwood at the moment.

We really need to redeem ourselves next week. It's one thing to cop a loss on the chin, especially if the other team has their very best playing blinders, but being that uncompetitive against a similarly aged and experienced team is just not on, IMO.

 

[Rough_Edges]

Our team list averaged 50 games, Collingwoods 64.

Our average age was around 0.3 years younger than Collingwoods.

Our team was/is the fifth youngest this week.

 

[aussierulesrules]

People are seriously wanting to drop Schneider?

He was one of the very few players who actually ran both ways and worked himself into the back half of the ground to try and get the ball going our way. 8 tackles is no joke.

Staggered at some of the anti-Schneider talk. As someone else said, he's just played two of his best games of footy for us and one of the things that I noticed last night at one of the stoppages was Schneider marshalling the troops and telling everyone (especially the young ones) where to stand and/or what to do. I was up on the 3rd level yet I could clearly hear him doing so from all the way up there. I first heard it then looked down to see who it was and it was Adam. We need as much leadership and experience as we can get at the moment and he sounded like he was providing a heap of that last night.

 

[saintersown]

Staggered at some of the anti-Schneider talk. As someone else said, he's just played two of his best games of footy for us and one of the things that I noticed last night at one of the stoppages was Schneider marshalling the troops and telling everyone (especially the young ones) where to stand and/or what to do. I was up on the 3rd level yet I could clearly hear him doing so from all the way up there. I first heard it then looked down to see who it was and it was Adam. We need as much leadership and experience as we can get at the moment and he sounded like he was providing a heap of that last night.

One minute they say there's not enough generals telling the troops where to go, the next they want to get rid of another one!

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Not sure if anyone has answered your question as I haven't read the last 3-4 pages, but I posted the experience profile a few days ago, when it was suggested that we were the younger or less experienced team and it turned out that if the teams had lined up as named that we actually had the more experienced team, with 12 who had played 50 games playing (including 6 who had played 100+ and 3 who had played 200+), compared to just 9 for Collingwood (also 6 with 100+ and 2 over 200) who had played over 50 games. Once Roo dropped out late it obviously changed our top end experience count, but we still had 2 more out there that had played 50 games than they did and just about the same number of "kids", so that was why I was so incredibly disappointed by our "effort" and performance.

We of course kicked the first 3 goals of the game, so from that point on we were outscored by 92 points and that is in spite of the fact that Collingwood missed 5 sitters, including 3 from about 12m out, that any one of us could have kicked, so we were lucky to not be outscored by 120 or so points from the 5min mark of the game onwards. Given how Collingwood are such a young and inexperienced team like we are and the fact that they are likely to be a bottom 8 team, last night's performance from about half way through the first quarter would have to be pretty much on a par with our 145 point loss to Hawthorn last year, given how much better Hawthorn then were, compared to Collingwood at the moment.

We really need to redeem ourselves next week. It's one thing to cop a loss on the chin, especially if the other team has their very best playing blinders, but being that uncompetitive against a similarly aged and experienced team is just not on, IMO.

You make a very good point AR. Without looking at the stats i figured the age profile of the teams was about the same. To be thrashed like that from an average side it shows inability to do the basic things consistently.. Structures just break down too easily.. Your right, we need a good show next week against carlscum.

 

[Cannavaro20]

You make a very good point AR. Without looking at the stats i figured the age profile of the teams was about the same. To be thrashed like that from an average side it shows inability to do the basic things consistently.. Structures just break down too easily.. Your right, we need a good show next week against carlscum.

I disagree with the avg games perspective... show me a distribution of experienced games by player age Ours willl be from 30 plus chaps while collingwood have their games in players peaking... cloke pendles brown white etc... fisher schneider and dempster are aged....maybe compare median gàmes.... or not all even as if àvg games was the key we should bring back harvey.

 

[Curious George]

Watched the game last night with a fellow saint who is heavily involved with gippy power.

After the game he pointed something out.

Rnd 1 & 2 our new players were not respected.
collingwood done their homework and showed respect.

True, first thing i saw was Frost shaking McCartins hand and wishing him luck before the game. Would have thought they'd get into him on his first game

 

[Curious George]

Im not a totally one eyed mega biased supporter.
Collingwood absolutely deserved to win. ( in fact i picked them)
But that free kick against Jack Steven in the fwd pocket for contact below the knees was 100% F***ING DISGRACEFUL BULLSH*T

And Lonie got nothing for contact......

 

[goodie23]

True, first thing i saw was Frost shaking McCartins hand and wishing him luck before the game. Would have thought they'd get into him on his first game

Maybe the taking of the soul is part of the getting tatted up process

 

[Saint Luke]

Staggered at some of the anti-Schneider talk. As someone else said, he's just played two of his best games of footy for us and one of the things that I noticed last night at one of the stoppages was Schneider marshalling the troops and telling everyone (especially the young ones) where to stand and/or what to do. I was up on the 3rd level yet I could clearly hear him doing so from all the way up there. I first heard it then looked down to see who it was and it was Adam. We need as much leadership and experience as we can get at the moment and he sounded like he was providing a heap of that last night.

I feel I should clarify my opinion. First of all, I have to concede that is an outstanding point and you're absolutely correct. I think we do need him marshalling particularly from stoppages. He should get more games than my post may have suggested based on this and his experience is extremely important. The game moves so fast and he has played in the fastest (finals/GF) so he knows what that looks like.

I was mostly frustrated because I think any reasonable fan would have to say Schneider's 2014 was pretty woeful. The reason his spot was in jeopardy and he was moved to the rookie list was obvious. There was a real possibility that he wasn't going to retain his spot last year and I think we need to recognize that. He said last year that his preseason was fantastic and he was in the best shape of his life, so we've heard that story before.

I really disagree that the last two games have been some of his best for us, but I think we need to move on from that particular point.

Primarily, I want the luxury to be able to move him on which we aren't afforded at the moment. It's a bit like Jones/Gwilt etc. where players have been very good in quarters or games from time to time, but just don't have the overall output of quality that you need long term. So, I think I take your point and concede I'm wrong that he is necessary for this year, and maybe next, but I would rather we didn't need him.

Now, let's move on. It doesn't matter anymore, all that matters is we beat the blues.

 

[austinnn]

Yep. 100% correct.

Most on here were unhappy with his performances last year as well. I thought when he played he was generally pretty good.

Despite what some want you to believe, he is a good kick and is a good creator. Injuries have been cruel to him but I'm assuming he had a full pre-season and is now somewhere near his best.

Also he's a goal kicker, we need those.

He was not a good kick last night.
He kicked 2 behinds last night, no goals.

He was what he was, but he is what he is. His contributions hurt the team last night and we need our vets to be setting good examples.

 

[Kilroy]

The review:
The Pies were hot and Crisp
We were Lukewarm and soggy

The conclusion:
Need a better Baker

 

[gilbert the best]

Staggered at some of the anti-Schneider talk. As someone else said, he's just played two of his best games of footy for us and one of the things that I noticed last night at one of the stoppages was Schneider marshalling the troops and telling everyone (especially the young ones) where to stand and/or what to do. I was up on the 3rd level yet I could clearly hear him doing so from all the way up there. I first heard it then looked down to see who it was and it was Adam. We need as much leadership and experience as we can get at the moment and he sounded like he was providing a heap of that last night.

agree good point, why we need these players in the team.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

.... Means pick 1 is back on the agenda?... High Five!!!

 

[sonnywalters]

Schneider had 60% DE and made 4 clangers. He wasnt good.
Hes smart enough to get his stats up - but like Joey - he racks them up without being effective or creating attacking scoring opportunities.

As far as I am concerned only Armo and Roberton had good games. The rest were terrible.

 

[sonnywalters]

I had a bit of a hissy fit on SS when a guy called Tony 74 who seems to be an insider and seems to claim to be very inner sanctum said we were concentrating on the Carlton game. I suggested it sounded like tanking and had a bit of a melt down. Anyway he is hopefully right now as I need to hope we had our foot off the pedal. He suggested we might be setting realistic goals of which ones we are likely to pick off and go extra hard at those.

I dont think thats what he meant.
He was just politely saying that the GC were utterly horrible and most AFL games wont be that easy. The GC stunk it up.

I also think the two x 6 day breaks were always going to catch up with us.

 

[hayes]

Couple of shocking turnovers from Newnes but still collected 26 touches and it's not like he's giving off a lot of 1-2's. Settling into his new role very nicely.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

The aftermath?
Nobody got badly injured and we get a chance to bounce back this week.
GO SAINTS

 

[Persevering Saint]

Honestly, thinking back, Richo was in a classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The kids from the GC game we're obviously too cooked from the pressure of that game to do it again off a 6-day break, but he had to reward them on form.

 

[gringo2011]

One minute they say there's not enough generals telling the troops where to go, the next they want to get rid of another one!

I blame Shenton, he has very selfishly been performing quite well. A lot of work has been put in by an army of behind the scenes trolls trying to paint him as the new whipping boy. I think even though Schnieder did extremely well in his last two games his offensively youthful hair cut grates at my nerves like finger nails down a black board. He should never play again. Dempster is shit too, and Rooey didn't register a stat. F%$#in hopeless mate what would the ANZACs think. Think of the children. It's an outrage. We should have sold Steven and Armo for picks.....that would make us better.

 

[Blurt]

I blame Shenton, he has very selfishly been performing quite well. A lot of work has been put in by an army of behind the scenes trolls trying to paint him as the new whipping boy. I think even though Schnieder did extremely well in his last two games his offensively youthful hair cut grates at my nerves like finger nails down a black board. He should never play again. Dempster is shit too, and Rooey didn't register a stat. F%$#in hopeless mate what would the ANZACs think. Think of the children. It's an outrage. We should have sold Steven and Armo for picks.....that would make us better.

Disagree. Have you ever considered the fact that people bag Shenton because they don't think he is up to it and will not be a part of our next tilt. It is not because they are trolls or they enjoy being negative it is just they do not rate him.

I've seen all his AFL matches and about 15-20 times in the VFL and my opinion of him has not changed. A fine VFL footballer not quite up to it at AFL level. Has a bit of dash, provides some pace, but does not judge the ball very well in flight, turns it over and makes to many bad decisions for a defender.

He's just warming the bench for someone better.