Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[play2win]

‘Triangles’ have been coached in soccer forever, I’m guessing it’s part of the evolving sharing arrangements with other codes.

 

[Bugs1977]

‘Triangles’ have been coached in soccer forever, I’m guessing it’s part of the evolving sharing arrangements with other codes.

Chicago Bulls won 6 championships running what they called the triangle offense. It's something that can be done in any sport that has 360 degree movement and if ran correctly by making all defenders have to be accountable and play man to man rather than a zone due to the continuous formation of triangles. Makes it impossible for defenders to sit back and play a zone and help out other teammates due to continuous movement.

You're correct that this type of thing has been adopted by other codes and likely has been studied by multiple AFL coaches over the last 20 or so years. It would takes some pretty fit and fast athletes to run this type of thing in AFL and I'm talking guys like CJ, Weddle and Blakey type fast and that's not even factoring in the skill level to pull it all off.

 

[wahawk]

Glenn McFarlane says Hawks & Sam are working on extending his contract before the end of season
Both on same page & will get done

 

[flinchfree]

Chicago Bulls won 6 championships running what they called the triangle offense. It's something that can be done in any sport that has 360 degree movement and if ran correctly by making all defenders have to be accountable and play man to man rather than a zone due to the continuous formation of triangles. Makes it impossible for defenders to sit back and play a zone and help out other teammates due to continuous movement.

You're correct that this type of thing has been adopted by other codes and likely has been studied by multiple AFL coaches over the last 20 or so years. It would takes some pretty fit and fast athletes to run this type of thing in AFL and I'm talking guys like CJ, Weddle and Blakey type fast and that's not even factoring in the skill level to pull it all off.

Interesting thinking, but not applicable to soccer.
In soccer, triangles can be/are used as a form of zone defense that both shut down the ball carrier and limit his passing lanes. The defender does not go to 'his man' to defend, but defends a space being attacked and becomes the primary defender if the ball carrier drives his direction and attempts to go past him.
If the ball is passed through the defensive triangle successfully, a new defensive triangle forms around the new ball carrier with the outside defender closest to where the ball has gone creating the new perimeter on that side of the ball.

Offensively, the triangle is used to create passing options around zone or direct defenders allowing for the give and go to create the extra man. The easiest way to beat a defense is when they go man to man, not the other way around as you have suggested.
Man to man defense has almost ceased to exist at the highest levels of professional soccer because it is so easily defeated by quick passing and playing systems drilled into teams. The possessing team know where to play the ball and where the next run needs to be made, while the man defender is completely reactionary.

Not sure about the correlation in basketball however.

 

[mustang]

Interesting thinking, but not applicable to soccer.
In soccer, triangles can be/are used as a form of zone defense that both shut down the ball carrier and limit his passing lanes. The defender does not go to 'his man' to defend, but defends a space being attacked and becomes the primary defender if the ball carrier drives his direction and attempts to go past him.
If the ball is passed through the defensive triangle successfully, a new defensive triangle forms around the new ball carrier with the outside defender closest to where the ball has gone creating the new perimeter on that side of the ball.

Offensively, the triangle is used to create passing options around zone or direct defenders allowing for the give and go to create the extra man. The easiest way to beat a defense is when they go man to man, not the other way around as you have suggested.
Man to man defense has almost ceased to exist at the highest levels of professional soccer because it is so easily defeated by quick passing and playing systems drilled into teams. The possessing team know where to play the ball and where the next run needs to be made, while the man defender is completely reactionary.

Not sure about the correlation in basketball however.

Pep Guardiola used this when attacking also at Barcelona with his tiki-taka tactics, passing in triangles which is always moving and which makes a player always free to take the next pass, He taken this to another level with pace and movement At Manchester City.

 

[Bugs1977]

Pep Guardiola used this when attacking also at Barcelona with his tiki-taka tactics, passing in triangles which is always moving and which makes a player always free to take the next pass, He taken this to another level with pace and movement At Manchester City.

They call it the equal opportunity offense due to the way it shifts the defence. If the ball keeps moving then someone will eventually get open for a shot.

 

[Brishawk]

Chicago Bulls won 6 championships running what they called the triangle offense. It's something that can be done in any sport that has 360 degree movement and if ran correctly by making all defenders have to be accountable and play man to man rather than a zone due to the continuous formation of triangles. Makes it impossible for defenders to sit back and play a zone and help out other teammates due to continuous movement.

You're correct that this type of thing has been adopted by other codes and likely has been studied by multiple AFL coaches over the last 20 or so years. It would takes some pretty fit and fast athletes to run this type of thing in AFL and I'm talking guys like CJ, Weddle and Blakey type fast and that's not even factoring in the skill level to pull it all off.

I think what you say was true in the 90s and maybe a bit if the 2000s but the triangle offence is long gone now. But the principle of motion and spacing of attacking players to move defenders works in most team sports even if the method varies.

 

[Bugs1977]

I think what you say was true in the 90s and maybe a bit if the 2000s but the triangle offence is long gone now. But the principle of motion and spacing of attacking players to move defenders works in most team sports even if the method varies.

The reason why you don't see NBA teams run it anymore Bris is because they've made it impossible to play any form of serious defence. The NBA is now all about shooting 3 pointers + scoring and the sport is poorer for it. There's no need to have an offense like that when shots are easy to come by.

 

[Brishawk]

The reason why you don't see NBA teams run it anymore Bris is because they've made it impossible to play any form of serious defence. The NBA is now all about shooting 3 pointers + scoring and the sport is poorer for it. There's no need to have an offense like that when shots are easy to come by.

I watch more nba than afl these days and the reason it died is not because you cant defend but because offensive strategies evolved. The threat of the three creates more space on the court. In the 90s nba played at its slowest rate in modern times and everyone crowded the paint hence the triangle dragged players around within the arc. Now all the offence starts 5 out to force the interior paint protection to decide between giving up the 3 or helping across to the ball in the lane.

Edit: the afl presently defend within the arc by congesting it. While leading can move players mostly the ball is bombed deep or they look for a player just inside the arc. Becoming efficient at 50m set shots is the afl equivalent of the 3 point threat the afl needs to open up space within the arc.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Sixpence]

Philhawk Did someone say extension?

 

[The Chad and I]

Philhawk Did someone say extension?

Did someone say FINALS??!

 

[Philhawk]

Philhawk Did someone say extension?

Don’t tease me Sixpence

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Don’t tease me Sixpence

Credit where it's due - each week over the past 5-6 is backing you up on this.

 

[Big Hotdog]

That is such a good weird stat.
The Gunston goal just before half time was so important.

Ginni's goal on 3qt also was a heavy punch to groin

 

[Sixpence]

Don’t tease me Sixpence

Credit where it's due - each week over the past 5-6 is backing you up on this.

Yeh, this. Not a tease, you called it early!

 

[Philhawk]

Credit where it's due - each week over the past 5-6 is backing you up on this.

Genuinely my posts here haven’t been an attempt at the silly BF game of “gotcha” Ned Ryerson - I just have always truly believed in his talent as a coach.

If he had lost the playing group, it might have been a different story. Continuity in leadership/coaching is a fundamental key to success in all sports and I personally couldn’t be happier with the way Sam is going.

A new contract isn’t a show of blind faith, FWIW - he needs to show constant progression over the next few years.

I am hoping we sign him in till the end of 2027, which gives him 3 years after this year. If we aren’t firmly in the finals basket by 2026, we should absolutely be having questions then if he’s the right guy.

But at the minute, the trajectory we are on is super exciting.

 

[MrPremiership]

No need to give Sam any more than 2 extra years.

 

[Philhawk]

I think the next stage for a thread like this is asking what the expectations should be for Sam moving forward?

Assuming he (hopefully) is extended, I’d like to see the following progression

2023: 7 wins (blood youth year)
2024: 10-12 wins (solidify gameplay/ dramatically improve standards)
2025: 14-16 wins (win a final)
2026: Compete for a flag

Now progress isn’t always linear and there’ll be ups and downs along the way and things out of his control (losing players to FA / injuries), which is why his core KPIs need to be

• Developing all players on the list
• Maintaining a culture of high effort and exacting standards
• A high quality team culture

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Genuinely my posts here haven’t been an attempt at the silly BF game of “gotcha” @Ned Ryerson - I just have always truly believed in his talent as a coach.

Definitely not accusing you of that - which is why don't mind a tip of the hat your way! I was just worried about what I saw in terms of attitude against the Suns based on the start of the season but the response since leaves me more than content.

Always had a strong feeling about Sam's coaching credentials also and am glad he is leading this club at present.

 

[HoldingThe Ball]

I have noticed this is a trend of modern football. Especially a triangle defense.

Every team has their designated intercept player defensively, Hawthorn tends to be Sicily, for Geelong Stewart, for GWS Taylor. They’re the heart of the triangle. The other two points are rebound players, and even better if they’re capable above head. This triangle across half back moves inline with the ball.

Top of the triangle behind the play as dangerous spot - Sicily

Back two points for longer or hack kicks + easier to get run from behind. - Amon, Weddle etc

It’s not set in stone as a player designator for the role but I’ve noticed it’s a setup 90% of teams play.

Hawthorn take this to another level with holding a diamond shape around the ball at all times around the ground. Trusting one or two teammates winning the ball, or pressuring the ball carrier and going from there. D1, next option and so on. Which is pretty basic football, just with a specific structure to make it easier and a more well oiled machine.

Holding width is key for not only being better setup defensively, but even more so for counterattack on the outside. Keeping the ball in tight for easy repeat stoppage or to dictate through pressure and owning width to maintain run and options.

It’s awesome to be able to look at structures of different teams and the trends played, maybe I’m just a football nerd. But it’s so clear what the structure is in so many differing aspects, around the ground, around the ball, defensively, offensively, transition.

View attachment 2010351
Here is the triangle, a poor two second scribble example.
View attachment 2010350
Diamond around ball, cyclone movement, D1, width.

Mind the poor detail but hopefully it makes sense.

‘Triangles’ have been coached in soccer forever, I’m guessing it’s part of the evolving sharing arrangements with other codes.

Interesting thinking, but not applicable to soccer.
In soccer, triangles can be/are used as a form of zone defense that both shut down the ball carrier and limit his passing lanes. The defender does not go to 'his man' to defend, but defends a space being attacked and becomes the primary defender if the ball carrier drives his direction and attempts to go past him.
If the ball is passed through the defensive triangle successfully, a new defensive triangle forms around the new ball carrier with the outside defender closest to where the ball has gone creating the new perimeter on that side of the ball.

Offensively, the triangle is used to create passing options around zone or direct defenders allowing for the give and go to create the extra man. The easiest way to beat a defense is when they go man to man, not the other way around as you have suggested.
Man to man defense has almost ceased to exist at the highest levels of professional soccer because it is so easily defeated by quick passing and playing systems drilled into teams. The possessing team know where to play the ball and where the next run needs to be made, while the man defender is completely reactionary.

Not sure about the correlation in basketball however.

Lets hope to god it doesn't head towards this...

 

[smish]

Lets hope to god it doesn't head towards this...

Since I was a kid I've spent an irrational amount of time wondering if this exact tactic would work.

Now I know.

 

[The Chad and I]

We won 7 games last season.
We’ve already won 6.
Should’ve beaten Port as well.

Sam’s direction for the club is UP!

 

[Randy Campbell]

 

[HedgeFund]

View attachment 2014505

I like this.