No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

We're here to win a premiership, if you can't do that you've failed

ok so we've failed 119 out of 120 years, good metric

edit my math bad

 

[Saint Shags]

It’s fair (to me) at least to speculate on who you would prefer based on outside views to coach the club but are any of the pro Lyon crew actually suggesting we just go full North/Clarko and hand him the keys with no process?

A guy who hasn’t coached in 3 years and missed finals in his last 3 years in charge?

Jesus wept.

If Ross commits to going through a rigorous process and rightfully wins the gig against whoever that opposition is then so be it. We shouldn’t be giving anyone this job based on ancient history and reputation.

 

[L_W_P]

Fair point. I don’t see much upside short term, I think backwards is the only way forwards.
It is going to be critical for us to get draft right over next 2 years

The issue though, is that we've been 'hitting the draft' and 'getting our recruitment right' for the last 8 years under Richo and Ratts.

It's been said 1000 times but drafting talent means nothing if you are bringing them into a poor culture for standards and development.

Lance Franklin would not have bloomed at Richmond in 2005. Richard Tambling could have been a 200 gamer at the Hawks.

A good club will make good players great. A poor club will drag good players down.

Ross Lyon might not be the next premiership coach. He might not be the next coach period. If he is made the head coach though then the standards across the football department automatically lift. Everyone has to get better or get out.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

 

[George]

ok so we've failed 119 out of 120 years, good metric

Well, yeah, exactly. (Actually is 148 out of 149).

Maybe you've been conditioned as a result of supporting the club to accept just doing well as success, we need to move past that. The only thing that matters is winning flags, that should be the only metric we measure success on.

 

[stavro#4]

It does seem like the most obvious choice but two things that I have no idea on - is Lyon willing to give up control to other areas of the footy department and be led by Walsh or will he want to go it rogue and control? And secondly, It's hard to say that Ross will categorically give us answers on if the list is the problem or not and I'm only saying that because he's been out of the game for three years and the game could very well have gone past him in terms of strategy/gameplan.

We have a strategy and game plan expert.

We have no one who sets standards. Drives improvement and can effectively communicate with a group of young men to create an environment that is deemed elite

 

[stavro#4]

Well, yeah, exactly. (Actually is 148 out of 149).

Maybe you've been conditioned as a result of supporting the club to accept just doing well as success, we need to move past that. The only thing that matters is winning flags, that should be the only metric we measure success on.

So had we won in 09 or 10. Then Ross left and the rest played out as per current history.

He would be deemed successful and you would take him back with no issues?

 

[George]

We have a strategy and game plan expert.

We have no one who sets standards. Drives improvement and can effectively communicate with a group of young men to create an environment that is deemed elite

Yes but is he a control freak is what I'm also asking. Will he be fine to delegate and share responsibility as opposed to taking it all on on his own and then possibly fracturing relationships in the process. He comes across as one of those types, he's a very no bullshit type person and I don't know if that's just good leadership or an unwillingness to hear new ideas.

 

[Roadrunner]

Saints to part ways with Ratten after review

Brett Ratten is set to leave St Kilda, just months after the senior coach signed a new contract

www.afl.com.au

Ratts sacked!!!

Who will be our next coach?

Noble

 

[George]

So had we won in 09 or 10. Then Ross left and the rest played out as per current history.

He would be deemed successful and you would take him back with no issues?

Well yeah of course he would be deemed successful. But the fact that he didn't win one means that ultimately it was a failure. Same happened at the Dockers. And if he wasn't out of the game for three years I would be far more in his camp than I am now, that's for sure.

Apparently Lyon couldn't delegate back when he was with us, took it all on himself. Is that because he didn't have the same support/structure he has now or is that part of his makeup.

 

[stavro#4]

Yes but is he a control freak is what I'm also asking. Will he be fine to delegate and share responsibility as opposed to taking it all on on his own and then possibly fracturing relationships in the process. He comes across as one of those types, he's a very no bullshit type person and I don't know if that's just good leadership or an unwillingness to hear new ideas.

He has openly said he needs support with the attacking side of his game plan.

That’s a start

“The only way I would even consider doing it, even consider, there’s a few assistants that I really respect their knowledge and what they’re capable of," Ross said.

"There’d be an offensive coach that I think 'yep, he could really complement'.

"I would need people that aren’t to the line guys, that are over the line, are really competent in their areas, so you can get to the playing group, you can work on the dynamic.

"Football, those head coaches and coaches are working harder than ever again because the soft cap’s been slaughtered.

"So you’re working like you did eight years ago.

"The last three years I had someone to make me a coffee to be honest, but now, so you’d need quality assistants."

Ross Lyon Addresses What Would Need To Happen For Him To Coach Again

On the Sunday Rub

amp.triplem.com.au

 

[Munga]

A few players would be shitten their pants right about now.

A non negotiable of Lyons was effort and when it's your time to go you go.

I can't remember the name of the Fremantle player he delisted when he first got there after one training session due to the players lack of effort.

Ross probably got the best out of Brad Hill too.

 

[George]

He has openly said he needs support with the attacking side of his game plan.

That’s a start

“The only way I would even consider doing it, even consider, there’s a few assistants that I really respect their knowledge and what they’re capable of," Ross said.

"There’d be an offensive coach that I think 'yep, he could really complement'.

"I would need people that aren’t to the line guys, that are over the line, are really competent in their areas, so you can get to the playing group, you can work on the dynamic.

"Football, those head coaches and coaches are working harder than ever again because the soft cap’s been slaughtered.

"So you’re working like you did eight years ago.

"The last three years I had someone to make me a coffee to be honest, but now, so you’d need quality assistants."

Ross Lyon Addresses What Would Need To Happen For Him To Coach Again

On the Sunday Rub

amp.triplem.com.au

Well lets hope that if he comes he is able to fashion a gameplan built for modern day football. I see his style as dour and defensive and not suited to today's game, if he comes across I hope to god he is able to implement some of the offensive stuff.

I want it to work regardless of who we bring in of course, and I don't particularly have a problem with a tried coach I just think we'd be better off going new. He would be re-writing history if he were to take us to a flag.

 

[phantom13]

The process was the review.

They want specific characteristics from the next coach

They believe the list has under performed and been under developed.

He doesn’t get the keys.

He coaches under a department led by Walsh - who worked with similar coaches in Pagan/Malthouse/Buckley

He gets supported by Rath with his favourite son lenny by his side + more

The fact is, the clubs review says the list needs to deliver more and they haven’t don’t enough. It’s next to impossible to categorically deny that if we have a poor season under a newbie coach.

If the same occurred under Ross. It’s a clear line of sight forward. Improve the list.

It makes way to much sense.

Given he’s not coached in 3 years how on earth could you know what sort of coach he is now.

You seem to think I’m saying he’s a no from me. Personally I think he is yesterday’s coach BUT if he goes through the interview process and is deemed the right guy then so be it, but I’d like to see what the market has to offer before we just tell him the job is his.

disagree, what matters to me is enjoying footy, watching great players in a great team play. My bar might be low compared to yours, but maybe we should focus on not being completely irrelevant before we start predicting how many premierships we're gonna win with this squad

If you’re not playong for a flag whats the point?

Ultimately it is the only measure of success.

 

[BrutThough]

Ross hasn't coached for 3 years. The last time he had a winning season was 2015.

For people who constantly complain about aiming for mediocrity, going back to Ross would be epitomising that.

Football has moved beyond him. We need too as well.

 

[Joffaboy]

A few players would be shitten their pants right about now.

A non negotiable of Lyons was effort and when it's your time to go you go.

I can't remember the name of the Fremantle player he delisted when he first got there after one training session due to the players lack of effort.



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There is an apocryphal story about parents of a player seeing Lyon and Riewoldt with their son when at the Saints as they though he wasn't getting a go. Halfway through the meeting the players phone rang and got up and walked out to answer it as RTB was in mid sentence.

Lyon didn't mention it, bid the parents farewell and as Riewoldt sat there, to discuss the matter, Ross looked at him, walked to the magnetic board where all the names of the players were, got the players name off the board and chucked it in the bin.
Riewoldt laughed like a drain when he was telling this story.

 

[George]

Given he’s not coached in 3 years how on earth could you know what sort of coach he is now.

You seem to think I’m saying he’s a no from me. Personally I think he is yesterday’s coach BUT if he goes through the interview process and is deemed the right guy then so be it, but I’d like to see what the market has to offer before we just tell him the job is his.

If you’re not playong for a flag whats the point?

Ultimately it is the only measure of success.

Agree on both fronts.

Probably not the process bit, I think we have done an internal process ourselves and now just going after a couple in mind that fit the characteristics we require.

 

[phantom13]

ok so we've failed 119 out of 120 years, good metric

edit my math bad

Ultimately yes. To varying degrees (it’s less a failure if you’re rebuilding and don’t win a flag than say what happened to the dogs this year) but yeh.

Overall every year you don’t win a premiership in a competition where the premiership is the only prize yes, it’s a failure

 

[The_Steadier]

I am amazed at the pro Lyon support coming from this forum. Will laugh my ass off if this comes to fruition. So St Kilda.

Should also hire Ronald McDonald as the forwards coach to finish with a bang!

I'm amazed that I can't recall a single instance in 3000+ posts where I wasn't of the polar opposite opinion to your good self.

It's like upsidedown land or something.

I'm amazed by it.... which means you are completely unfazed by it right?!

A few players would be shitten their pants right about now.



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Likewise there will be plenty of players with a massive smile on their face.

Guns like steele, marshall, king will be LOVING the prospect of a ballbreaker coming in to drag everybody up to elite level.

Steele has looked utterly miserable the last 2 years- I reckon he will go full peak selwood/lenny etc under a take no prisoners type coach.

 

[phantom13]

Agree on both fronts.

Probably not the process bit, I think we have done an internal process ourselves and now just going after a couple in mind that fit the characteristics we require.

That’s still a process though get the pitches and the message from the candidates and see which best aligns.

It’s obviously going to be select interview. I’m happy for Lyon to be one of the candidates but he shouldn’t be the only one.

Ultimately I think we’re in furious agreement.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

That makes it ok?

Yeah he should have stayed on lower $$ while his family lived with his parents after they lost their house.

Nettlefold's incompetence drove Ross from the club just as much as Freo's mining cash did.

You & I would have done the same thing.

 

[Joffaboy]

ok so we've failed 119 out of 120 years, good metric

edit my math bad

Even the most successful teams have failed 104 times out of 120

 

[crasha301]

I'm amazed that I can't recall a single instance in 3000+ posts where I wasn't of the polar opposite opinion to your good self.

It's like upsidedown land or something.

I'm amazed by it.... which means you are completely unfazed by it right?!



Likewise there will be plenty of players with a massive smile on their face.

Guns like steele, marshall, king will be LOVING the prospect of a ballbreaker coming in to drag everybody up to elite level.

Steele has looked utterly miserable the last 2 years- I reckon he will go full peak selwood/lenny etc under a take no prisoners type coach.

Definitely, Ross might be able to get the best out of players like Clark, coff, Higgins ect also.



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[Munga]

Ross hasn't coached for 3 years. The last time he had a winning season was 2015.

For people who constantly complain about aiming for mediocrity, going back to Ross would be epitomising that.

Football has moved beyond him. We need too as well.

You could very well be correct. My gut feel is we're heading that way, though. The vibe from the way they were speaking at the presser today, sounds like Lyon's type is on the way.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Last time we looked like a proper team ross was the coach, the board f'd up and didn't resign him, he left and we quickly became irrelevant. Bring him back to finish what he started!

I keep on thinking back to that terrible Sunday morning in October 2010 when Ross stood up at the family day & promised us that one day it would happen.

I thought at the time he meant in 2011 not 12 or 13 years later