Autopsy Sydney Legacy in Grand Finals continues 10 goal loss to the Lions

[GoTheSwannies]

Totally avoiding the issue of 4 gf failures, It seems marketing solution is to tell members they need to have a good hard self reflection and than pay up in December...

"While a Grand Final loss is bitterly disappointing, we hope members in time reflect on what an incredible season the club has had.

Winning the minor premiership and reaching 75,000 members this year is no small feat, and it speaks volumes about the ongoing loyalty of our Swans members.

While we know this loss hurts and we feel it deeply alongside each and every one of you, our club is resilient, and we will fight to get back there.

We have so many positives to build on, and we’re already looking forward to next season with renewed determination.

Thank you for your passion, your commitment, and for being with us every step of the way.

If we can assist further, please don't hesitate to get in touch with Membership Support on 02 9157 5020 10am-4pm, Monday to Friday.

Cheer cheer,"

What an absolute joke of a message from the club. People have mentioned Harley and Co's interest in memberships and being corporate sell outs. Basically offering horse a job for life because he keeps us there abouts.

That pathetic message reinforces it. Another tone def message from the club's leadership.

How about focusing on what really matters to fans. Winning premierships. Or at the very least, being competitive in them FFS.

Shows the swans hierarchy has lost sight of what's important to fans. Look after the onfield performances and the memberships will look after themselves. Treat fans with contempt after the last 2 grand finals performances you've put in and you can shove your support up your backsides.

 

[sherb]

What an absolute joke of a message from the club. People have mentioned Harley and Co's interest in memberships and being corporate sell outs. Basically offering horse a job for life because he keeps us there abouts.

That pathetic message reinforces it. Another tone def message from the club's leadership.

How about focusing on what really matters to fans. Winning premierships. Or at the very least, being competitive in them FFS.

Shows the swans hierarchy has lost sight of what's important to fans. Look after the onfield performances and the memberships will look after themselves. Treat fans with contempt after the last 2 grand finals performances you've put in and you can shove your support up your backsides.

Winning premierships isn't just what is important to fans - it is literally the ultimate reason that football clubs exist. Not the only reason of course, but the ultimate one.

I agree with you - I saw a Facebook message from the club which could be summarized as "well, we lost the Grand Final but, hey, we had record memberships and attendances".

It sends out the wrong message imo, certainly in terms of what the club views as priorities.

 

[GoulburnSwan]

That is an overreaction.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Sensible decisions need to be taken at sensible intervals.

We have a team that gets to GFs.
We need a serious intervention as to why we fail on the big stage.

Sack Horse. Trade Warner for my dinkie just does not cut it. I get all you guys are as unbelievably just in a vacuum as to why we just don't do it on GF day. But sacking everyone and trading everyone for Wines is not a solution.

I think we are close to a GF win. Maybe close to 4. The pain will subside but the answers to why. That is elusive at this stage. Don't do the stuff that weak clubs do. Don't give up on your club. The players are hurting too. If you give up then you were not really one of us. Supporters support. Breathe. Take time out. It is just a game. But it is also very important to many of us including me.

I just had surgery on cutting some cancer from my colon on Tuesday. I was in a lot of pain through to Thursday and I got off a lot of the drips hanging off my arms. Friday I was walking around the hospital wards geeing everyone up for the GF. My surgery had gone well. But I hit a snag. My digestive system just stopped. I had piled a lot of food in and it was just sitting in my stomach doing nothing but bloating me. So I asked for some laxatives to get rid of the food in my stomach. So for most of the GF I was in the shitter trying to get rid of 3 day old food. I was in pain. The GF was going on and I could not care. It was a shit of a day which ever way you look at it.

Do look after yourself and get well soon. So true we will get over this eventually and be back next year.

 

[MR0808]

What an absolute joke of a message from the club. People have mentioned Harley and Co's interest in memberships and being corporate sell outs. Basically offering horse a job for life because he keeps us there abouts.

That pathetic message reinforces it. Another tone def message from the club's leadership.

How about focusing on what really matters to fans. Winning premierships. Or at the very least, being competitive in them FFS.

Shows the swans hierarchy has lost sight of what's important to fans. Look after the onfield performances and the memberships will look after themselves. Treat fans with contempt after the last 2 grand finals performances you've put in and you can shove your support up your backsides.

I said it before, we need new admin, a Brendan Gale type who makes a plan and makes it work

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Winning premierships isn't just what is important to fans - it is literally the ultimate reason that football clubs exist. Not the only reason of course, but the ultimate one.

I agree with you - I saw a Facebook message from the club which could be summarized as "well, we lost the Grand Final but, hey, we had record memberships and attendances".

It sends out the wrong message imo, certainly in terms of what the club views as priorities.

Exactly. It was absolutely tone def after their last 2 grand finals performances. And 4 straight GF defeats.

Sure, the club would be ecstatic about the membership numbers, but keep that in-house. It's meaningless to fans at this stage. Then ask fans to dig into their pockets after they've just spent thousands to get to melbourne to witness another gutless performance.

 

[mcs095]

Exactly. It was absolutely tone def after their last 2 grand finals performances. And 4 straight GF defeats.

Sure, the club would be ecstatic about the membership numbers, but keep that in-house. It's meaningless to fans at this stage. Then ask fans to dig into their pockets after they've just spent thousands to get to melbourne to witness another gutless performance.

I really think the club just isn't getting it about the 'perceptions' associated with how things are being framed and/or interpreted.

I'm sure the sorts of things Robbie Fox were saying should have been kept in house and were in house messaging - I have zero beef with him saying them, its not easy after a loss like that, and he is one of the few that actually has shown in 22 and 24 that he gave a f*** by giving it a true red hot go. If the large majority of his team mates did the same, we wouldn't be having that discussion.

Likewise with membership numbers etc - fine messaging prior to the Grand Final. Just a rub it in the face feel at this point in time.

As I've said here or elsewhere, going to be very interesting to see the spin on it all at the Bob Skilton dinner.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

McQualter in not even his first day at the Eagles said "a flag is the end goal"

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I really think the club just isn't getting it about the 'perceptions' associated with how things are being framed and/or interpreted.

I'm sure the sorts of things Robbie Fox were saying should have been kept in house and were in house messaging - I have zero beef with him saying them, its not easy after a loss like that, and he is one of the few that actually has shown in 22 and 24 that he gave a f*** by giving it a true red hot go. If the large majority of his team mates did the same, we wouldn't be having that discussion.

Likewise with membership numbers etc - fine messaging prior to the Grand Final. Just a rub it in the face feel at this point in time.

As I've said here or elsewhere, going to be very interesting to see the spin on it all at the Bob Skilton dinner.

I have absolutely no issues with Fox saying what he did. He was just being honest. I have an issue with the club thinking that messaging was appropriate for their players.

I've always wondered what sort of messaging Horse sent to his players. I wondered how we could capitulate so badly in 3 of our last 4 grand finals. And the whole "the GF doesn't define us" and "hopefully we'll have success in the future". That's just a poor mindset for your players to go into the biggest moment of their careers.

For the club to think that is a good mindset for your players to have is just unbelievable.

 

[mcs095]

I have absolutely no issues with Fox saying what he did. He was just being honest. I have an issue with the club thinking that messaging was appropriate for their players.

I've always wondered what sort of messaging Horse sent to his players. I wondered how we could capitulate so badly in 3 of our last 4 grand finals. And the whole "the GF doesn't define us" and "hopefully we'll have success in the future". That's just a poor mindset for your players to go into the biggest moment of their careers.

For the club to think that is a good mindset for your players to have is just unbelievable.

From an individual players perspective, not being defined by individual games is probably a pretty important mental health message - we know how much many footballers struggle both during and after careers. But I don't think its great messaging to be held across a group (which it seems to have been) in such a prominent way, and then certainly not to be effectively repeated to the viewing public en masse both beofre and after a capitulation.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I have absolutely no issues with Fox saying what he did. He was just being honest. I have an issue with the club thinking that messaging was appropriate for their players.

I've always wondered what sort of messaging Horse sent to his players. I wondered how we could capitulate so badly in 3 of our last 4 grand finals. And the whole "the GF doesn't define us" and "hopefully we'll have success in the future". That's just a poor mindset for your players to go into the biggest moment of their careers.

For the club to think that is a good mindset for your players to have is just unbelievable.

What i mean is that sort of messaging is extremely concerning whichever way you look at it for a game of football.

I dont believe they trust themselves on the day how do you explain the lack of desperation to the contest and the hunger?

History is against us doing anything meaningful in 2025

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Not sure if this is an appropriate thread for it, but I'm travelling with work, cooped up in a hotel & bored .... so here's DQ's exec summary of our player's season.

Apologies in advance if its tainted by some residual GF frustration.

1. Chad brilliant at times, infuriating at times. Some match winning efforts, coupled with some games that left you wondering if he's actually trying. Appears nearly inevitable that he's goneski - whether this season or next. Best we can hope for - a straight swap for Serong. The worst - band 1 compo that lands at around pick 5 & we all know how that'll pan out.

2. McLean once again took some strong contested marks. Unfortunately, they tend to all be 80m from goal. Should be nearing the peak of his powers, but isn't going to get any faster or more agile. Tireless, durable and did some handy work in the ruck. Due to his athletic profile, may have reached his ceiling. Hope I'm wrong, but on this one, I reckon I'm right.

3. Adams Craig McRae

Craig Mcrae

Age

51

Ht

176cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.4

5star

considered him to be a half-forward. Seems the cagey bugger was right. Had some strong performances early in the season, but faded dramatically. Gave Collingwood a fair spray after he left & one has to wonder how he feels about his new employer.

4. Brodie G At one stage looked to be the recruit of the decade, as the Swans carved up hapless opponents pre-bye. Performances later in the season became more erratic, not helped by being the most heavily penalised player in the AFL (thanks Stevic & co). Opposition teams seemed to learn how to negate his impact by grappling in the ruck contest. Got rag-dolled in the GF in a manner that brought back nightmares of Ruck Jesus circa 2022.

5. Heeney Brilliant season by a brilliant player. Just needs ankle transplants in the off-season.

6. Logan Encouraging in some respects, concerning in others. Great ability to get around the ground and was also used as a swing-man from time-to-time. But will he ultimately be able to take a pack mark? That, dear reader, remains the great unknown - because there's only ever been one player who reached great heights without much ability to take a contested grab. And he retired last season.

7. Harry C A fine season. The amazing thing with Harry is that when you don't notice him, he's usually had a great game. And there were plenty of times I didn't notice him. Until the GF - where 100,000 spectators noticed his opponent, but Harry was nowhere to be seen.

8. Rowy For those who live on a rural property, you'd just love to have a working dog like Rowy.

9. Hayward Its a shame Grand Uncle Horace didn't get to formally withdraw his "Wayward" tag - because Will was remarkably reliable around goal this year. Won plenty of HTB frees with his uncanny ability to chase down unsuspecting opponents from behind. Must be the stealthiest mover in history. Twitter posts continue to offer some of the most insightful thoughts on the internet.

10. Francis I reckon Francis gets the rough end of the pineapple here sometimes. He's actually a pretty strong spoiler and can take a mark. Unfortunately, he looks like he's running in treacle & hence often doesn't quite get to where he's going in time. Thats a problem.

11. Papley Always entertaining, until he got to the GF - whereupon his form of entertainment was more Tina Arena than Katy Perry.

12. Gus Please don't get hurt next year. Please. And don't you dare consider being part of a package-deal trade with the Chad. Our best performer on GF day. Which is depressing.

13. Ollie F Another who I reckon gets underrated in these here parts. An elusive runner off half-back and was a major contributor to the Swans finishing atop the table. And I reckon Sydney Sweeney kinda liked him too.

14. Mills Just forget 2024 ever happened Callum. Like the rest of us are trying to do.

15. Wicks Had an underwhelming season and there's real doubt over his standing within the playing group, given the circumstances around the off-field drama remain shrouded in mystery.

16. Campbell FINALLY got shifted out of the back pocket (halleluiah!) and showed glimpses of what we all hope he's capable of. Will 2025 finally be the year we all sit back and say "wow, this bloke is really good"? ... I reckon it might be. If Horse (or whoever our senior coach might be) can resist the urge to banish him back in the defensive abyss.

17. JJ Unfortunately, couldn't shut down 22 opponents in the GF. Shame. Because none of his teammates managed to shut down even their direct opponent, so JJ got pinballed around, with a match-up on just about every Lions player on the park. Glad you're a Swan JJ!

21. Errol Another terrific season, with some divine kicking that, on occasion, made you sit back in awe & wonder if he is indeed a footballing deity. Alas, his season will be partly remembered for some shocking footage in the GF of him deciding to just let his opponent do whatever they liked. Can Errol learn to be accountable when required? Here's hoping he can.

22. The Lizard A deserved AA season - if we don't have the Lizard, we don't finish minor premier. Incredibly fun to watch & if he has the odd brain-explosion that'd make LRT proud, so be it.

24. Sir Dane I was among those calling for a statue of Sir Dane to be installed outside the SCG (complete with the obligatory surrounding chain-link fence & a cigarette vending machine next to it). I reckon its still deserved - but I sense it might be time to spend a bit of time mentoring the next generation in the 2's. Scurrilous rumour starting to emerge that his magnificent, gravity-defying hair may in fact be a toupee.

26. Parker I can't imagine how frustrated this great warrior and champion of the club must have been at times this year. But at no stage did he sulk, have a whinge, or do anything to tarnish his legacy. Legend of the Swans & will always be a premiership player, even if he does end his career playing for a basket-case club in Victoria.

27. McI So many people in my (Perth) office commented that "gee that number 27, whats his name, McIlroy or something ... he's good isn't he!?". And yes, he is good. Very good. If he's running on two functioning knees. Which I don't think he was in the later stages of the season.

29. Hamling Gets a mention here purely because he's a premiership defender that we've somehow turned into a mediocre VFL standard forward. Nice one.

30. Tommy Mac Entered whipping boy territory late in the season, largely due to some comical mix-ups with Melican. Mix-ups that left me wondering if they need to get some Benny Hill music cued-up at the SCG. But easy to forget some of the mighty performances he put in through the season. Remains just about our most important Swan.

33. Cleary Exciting prospect. Showed what a real pressure forward can do for the side when introduced at AFL level. And he's not even a pressure forward. Here's hoping he's named come round 1 2025.

34. Roberts May not have enormous speed or athletic traits, but really impressed with his footy smarts and powerful kick. Had a bit of a GF stinker, but so did all his mates. Strongly built, will continue to improve and one of the real success stories of 2024.

36. Armatey Yes, I know, he kicked 9 in a game. But in my view - that was divine intervention. Karma for Judas' betrayal. Expect to see Lloyd kick 9 against the Crows next year, as Karma isn't a 1-year deal. A gifted athlete & can be exciting to watch, but I sometimes reckon if you asked Joel what "chase" means, he'd say its a Griswald.

37. Corey Has speed, skills, and great hair. Just needs to somehow find the Sherrin a bit more.

42. Fox I feel really bad saying this, but if Robbie appears in our "best players list", you kinda know we've lost. And if he's named in our bests in a GF, we've been thrashed. sigh

43. Melican Terrific seeing the Melicopter get through a season with hammies in-tact. A very good season - and thank heavens he did, because he's become incredibly important to our structure.

44. Llllloooooyd Is he a half-back? Is he a winger? I don't know anymore. But he remains one of our most tough, durable, reliable players. Unfortunately found himself matched up on Daniher more times than I can count in the GF .... how on earth it happened, I'll never know. Maybe they were talking moustache waxers?

 

[GoTheSwannies]

What i mean is that sort of messaging is extremely concerning whichever way you look at it for a game of football.

I dont believe they trust themselves on the day how do you explain the lack of desperation to the contest and the hunger?

History is against us doing anything meaningful in 2025

To be honest, I think a lot of that has to do with the gameplan. That gameplan set us up for failure.

It was evident all season. When things were going well, everything just clicked and we looked unstoppable. But there were countless examples of us falling into a hole unable to stop teams piling on goals against us. We had varying degrees of success in countering that, and were able to overcome significant deficits to win. Even against the Giants in the QF. But people were raising concerns all year that our slow starts and lapses wouldn't be so easy to run down in a GF and that's exactly what happened.

The footage of Gulden not picking up his man defensively after a handover. While it looks damning, I think players just felt a sense of futility because our gameplan didn't allow us to stay in the hunt long enough when things weren't going our way. And when that happens in a Grand final, teams are much more prone to capitulation.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

To be honest, I think a lot of that has to do with the gameplan. That gameplan set us up for failure.

It was evident all season. When things were going well, everything just clicked and we looked unstoppable. But there were countless examples of us falling into a hole unable to stop teams piling on goals against us. We had varying degrees of success in countering that, and were able to overcome significant deficits to win. Even against the Giants in the QF. But people were raising concerns all year that our slow starts and lapses wouldn't be so easy to run down in a GF and that's exactly what happened.

The footage of Gulden not picking up his man defensively after a handover. While it looks damning, I think players just felt a sense of futility because our gameplan didn't allow us to stay in the hunt long enough when things weren't going our way. And when that happens in a Grand final, teams are much more prone to capitulation.

But its bewildering how just a 4 weeks prior in under tougher conditions (losing a few players and in high humidity) we managed to get within 2 of them at their home deck.

It doesnt make any sense.

 

[caesar88]

What i mean is that sort of messaging is extremely concerning whichever way you look at it for a game of football.

I dont believe they trust themselves on the day how do you explain the lack of desperation to the contest and the hunger?

History is against us doing anything meaningful in 2025

They don't trust themselves on grand final day because grand finals are about hardness and pressure and the contest, and too many of our players know that is not their forte. And it's never been expected to be their forte.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

But its bewildering how just a 4 weeks prior in under tougher conditions (losing a few players and in high humidity) we managed to get within 2 of them at their home deck.

It doesnt make any sense.

I think the Lions just managed to find their groove at the right time of the year. I was actually most worried about the Lions after what they did to the Giants and then the Cats to overrun them.

The way they just hunted the ball and knocked it on and managed to find a spare lose. Their gameplan was very Richmondesque in the finals. They had the chaos ball working for them. And it was the perfect style to trouble us.

I hadn't watched them closely all year so I'm not sure if they changed their game style in the latter stages of the year. But the style they played with in finals was difficult to counter.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

That and it's easier to crack in when you know the consequences aren't that great and you'll live to fight another day. It's the finality of a grand final that will make the lesser-lights seize up when everything's on the line.

 

[Rhino5]

Apologies if this has already been posted as I haven’t kept up with the thread, but I think this is good and pretty spot on in a lot of places (regardless of what you think of Kingy etc…)

 

[Bloods86]

Not sure if this is an appropriate thread for it, but I'm travelling with work, cooped up in a hotel & bored .... so here's DQ's exec summary of our player's season.

Apologies in advance if its tainted by some residual GF frustration.

1. Chad brilliant at times, infuriating at times. Some match winning efforts, coupled with some games that left you wondering if he's actually trying. Appears nearly inevitable that he's goneski - whether this season or next. Best we can hope for - a straight swap for Serong. The worst - band 1 compo that lands at around pick 5 & we all know how that'll pan out.

Chad's not a free agent though, that's not the worst. The worst is the PSD.

 

[Bloods86]

A gifted athlete & can be exciting to watch, but I sometimes reckon if you asked Joel what "chase" means, he'd say its a Griswald.

And yet still produces the best tackling pressure out of our big 3.

 

[MrSwans]

Rampe and Warner playing handseys during team photo reflects the in-game mindset. Get serious you ****en idiots, it's a Grand Final.

The Sydney team line up during the singing of the anthem isn't a great look and doesn't show any prior planning by the club (perhaps one of the many omissions with Sydney's planning) , but the 'handseys' between Rampe and Warner is a direct rip off from the Collingwood team photo before the 2023 Grand Final, with Oleg Markov holding the hands of Isaac Quaynor and Jamie Elliott and 'giggling' - It didn't affect their result.

 

[KingV23]

The Sydney team line up during the singing of the anthem isn't a great look and doesn't show any prior planning by the club (perhaps one of the many omissions with Sydney's planning) , but the 'handseys' between Rampe and Warner is a direct rip off from the Collingwood team photo before the 2023 Grand Final, with Oleg Markov holding the hands of Isaac Quaynor and Jamie Elliott and 'giggling' - It didn't affect their result.

It didn't affect their result, you're right. But you would think Captain Rampe with a 0-3 GF record would take things a little bit more seriously. Maybe I am being petty, but to me, it isn't a good look; especially when Rampe goes out and does absoloutely nothing the whole game.

 

[The Tilt]

I have absolutely no issues with Fox saying what he did. He was just being honest. I have an issue with the club thinking that messaging was appropriate for their players.

I've always wondered what sort of messaging Horse sent to his players. I wondered how we could capitulate so badly in 3 of our last 4 grand finals. And the whole "the GF doesn't define us" and "hopefully we'll have success in the future". That's just a poor mindset for your players to go into the biggest moment of their careers.

For the club to think that is a good mindset for your players to have is just unbelievable.

what did Fox say? I've missed that. Could someone post?

 

[GoTheSwannies]

what did Fox say? I've missed that. Could someone post?

This article and a few others quoted what Fox said:

'It won't define us': Swans pick up pieces after another GF thumping

Sydney head home after another heavy Grand Final loss

www.afl.com.au

This was the quote:

'Throughout the finals series, we did a lot of work with (sports psychologist) Emma Murray and we were like one game won't define us.
'This was four weeks ago and we just had this mentality.
'We would like to win a grand final, but it won't define us.
'It wasn't this year, but hopefully it's in the years to come.'

 

[KingV23]

This article and a few others quoted what Fox said:

'It won't define us': Swans pick up pieces after another GF thumping

Sydney head home after another heavy Grand Final loss

www.afl.com.au

This was the quote:

'Throughout the finals series, we did a lot of work with (sports psychologist) Emma Murray and we were like one game won't define us.
'This was four weeks ago and we just had this mentality.
'We would like to win a grand final, but it won't define us.
'It wasn't this year, but hopefully it's in the years to come.'

I think Emma needs to be replaced.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I think Emma needs to be replaced.

I'd also be looking at the person who hired her, the person who was responsible for ensuring the work she was doing was actually beneficial rather than detrimental. And if there was noone doing that, then the person responsible for overseeing it should take blame.