Autopsy Sydney Legacy in Grand Finals continues 10 goal loss to the Lions

[ashep]

Remember i posted at the start of the season we set ourselves for 24/25 , we have wasted 1 opportunity as it's so hard to get there , but look what Brissy did after their start , might be better to be hunting all year and then go bang at the end

We keep finding ourselves on the same page with the season over bedders.

I simply don't buy that we can dominate the regular season, come back to win a pressure final then dominate a prelim against the #2 side on the ladder, but aren't good enough to win the flag.

The list is good enough. With a fire under our arse and the coaches acknowledging the deficiencies in our gamestyle, we're still right in the window.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Remember i posted at the start of the season we set ourselves for 24/25 , we have wasted 1 opportunity as it's so hard to get there , but look what Brissy did after their start , might be better to be hunting all year and then go bang at the end

Pace our season better? i dont know running out of excuses for this group.

Point is whats worse than getting flogged in a GF is capitulating in a fashion only Sydney could after 13-1 we didnt rotate players we ran Grundy/Hayward/Heeney into the ground, Gulden was trying some ridiculous 100% TOG every game like the game isnt hard enough as it is.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

We keep finding ourselves on the same page with the season over bedders.

I simply don't buy that we can dominate the regular season, come back to win a pressure final then dominate a prelim against the #2 side on the ladder, but aren't good enough to win the flag.

The list is good enough. With a fire under our arse and the coaches acknowledging the deficiencies in our gamestyle, we're still right in the window.

You dont need to dominate regular season when we were 4 games clear on top the eventual premiers Brisbane were long odds to make the 8 they were 13th or something cbf checking exactly.

Someone said it earlier and i dont think its been a more true statement this group/club ceiling is a Prelim.

 

[Punts]

The excuses lol

No more that just shitting the bed

Had the perfect opportunity to get one

No dominant vic side

2 weeks off during finals

Didn’t leave Sydney till the massive hour n half flight to Melbourne

Experience from 22 apparently

 

[caesar88]

FWIW here are what the three tall forwards in recent premiership teams have averaged in goals, and where ours sit among them:

Brisbane (2024) - 4.79 goals a game
Sydney (2024) - 4.18
Melbourne (2021) - 4.02
Collingwood (2023) - 3.29

We absolutely could've made ours work in our forward line. I don't think they'd be enough to, say, carry out a dynasty, but win a one off flag with like Melbourne & Collingwood did for sure. Especially considering we also were getting more goals from our midfield to go with them than either of those sides.

But who did those sides have alongside their talls?

Melbourne - Pickett, Neal-Bullen, Spargo, Harmes

Collingwood - Elliott, McCreery, Hill, Ginnivan

Sydney - Papley, Hayward, Parker, Jordon

One of those groups is not like the other. Absolutely nothing against those Swans named, they're all obviously good players, great players in Papley's case. But it's the slowest, most lacking in pressure forward line imaginable.

It's been a few weeks and I am still dumbfounded that Horse & co named it.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

FWIW here are what the three tall forwards in recent premiership teams have averaged in goals, and where ours sit among them:

Brisbane (2024) - 4.79 goals a game
Sydney (2024) - 4.18
Melbourne (2021) - 4.02
Collingwood (2023) - 3.29

We absolutely could've made ours work in our forward line. I don't think they'd be enough to, say, carry out a dynasty, but win a one off flag with like Melbourne & Collingwood did for sure. Especially considering we also were getting more goals from our midfield to go with them than either of those sides.

But who did those sides have alongside their talls?

Melbourne - Pickett, Neal-Bullen, Spargo, Harmes

Collingwood - Elliott, McCreery, Hill, Ginnivan

Sydney - Papley, Hayward, Parker, Jordon

One of those groups is not like the other. Absolutely nothing against those Swans named, they're all obviously good players, great players in Papley's case. But it's the slowest, most lacking in pressure forward line imaginable.

It's been a few weeks and I am still dumbfounded that Horse & co named it.

Daniher will leave a massive gap will be interesting how they fill his void probably restructure with a smaller setup with McCarthy and Morris.

Hipwood is woeful unless he can step up massively

 

[Millky95]

3 talls is great when your mids are on top and can get clean ball in
Under sized and aggressive rebound is great when your mids are on top and deny the opposition getting clean ball in

Another Grand Final where our mids looked like school children. Saying they got beaten is the understatement of the season

 

[bedford]

3 talls is great when your mids are on top and can get clean ball in
Under sized and aggressive rebound is great when your mids are on top and deny the opposition getting clean ball in

Another Grand Final where our mids looked like school children. Saying they got beaten is the understatement of the season

And the coaching panel did nothing about it

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

There are 3 types of people in this world.

Those who make things happen:
Rowie, Fox
Those who watch things happen:
Gulden, Warner, Logan - nearly whole team
And Those who wonder, ‘what happened ?’
Longmire, Cox, McVeigh, Harley, Pridham, Psychologist

 

[bedford]

Actually 4 if you include f wits

 

[The King!]

And the coaching panel did nothing about it

I would love to be there the coaches and players reviewing the game and honestly get their thoughts.

My questions

- what was the pre game plan and instructions, I couldn't see what we tried to do, what was with the zone etc

- were the players nervous

- was Mcdonald actually fit to go?

- how bad was Heeney injury?

- could Mills have played ?

- Why wasn't Adams emergency?

- Why did Blakey play for a free, what was with the fumbles etc - so many plays i'd want to ask individual players about?

- What were the coaches relaying to the bench during the first

- what was the quarter time instruction

- what was said at half time? did they talk about winning or competing ?

- why didn't campbell sub on immediately? why did Mcdonald run back on and off.

- what moves did the coaches make during the day?

- what were the players saying to each other out there?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

There are 3 types of people in this world.

Those who make things happen:
Rowie, Fox
Those who watch things happen:
Gulden, Warner, Logan - nearly whole team
And Those who wonder, ‘what happened ?’
Longmire, Cox, McVeigh, Harley, Pridham, Psychologist

Thats a fair summarization lol.

We should of seen it coming after the Port/Dogs loss there was a major vulnerability that was exposed.

 

[Day_night_honourer]

3 talls is great when your mids are on top and can get clean ball in
Under sized and aggressive rebound is great when your mids are on top and deny the opposition getting clean ball in

Another Grand Final where our mids looked like school children. Saying they got beaten is the understatement of the season

Yep. When our bonus scoring power and special weapon all year has been our midfield and they decide to have a day off, then no surprise we failed.

Grundy continuously being overpowered didn't help either. Imagine a first-half-of-season Brundy in the GF!?

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

I would love to be there the coaches and players reviewing the game and honestly get their thoughts.

My questions

- what was the pre game plan and instructions, I couldn't see what we tried to do, what was with the zone etc

Score more than the Lions

- were the players nervous

Positive

- was Mcdonald actually fit to go?

Negative

- how bad was Heeney injury?

He’s Superman so not crippling

- could Mills have played ?

Yeah but not that well

- Why wasn't Adams emergency?

Not a flashy outside player

- Why did Blakey play for a free, what was with the fumbles etc - so many plays i'd want to ask individual players about?

IQ not the highest with the Liz

- What were the coaches relaying to the bench during the first

Score more than the Lions

- what was the quarter time instruction

Score more than the Lions

- what was said at half time? did they talk about winning or competing ?

This game won’t define us

- why didn't campbell sub on immediately? why did Mcdonald run back on and off.

Said he was fine, Reid style

- what moves did the coaches make during the day?

Couple of trips to the toilet, 1 trip to the fridge

- what were the players saying to each other out there?

You know, the universe and all

 

[The King!]

Pace our season better? i dont know running out of excuses for this group.

Point is whats worse than getting flogged in a GF is capitulating in a fashion only Sydney could after 13-1 we didnt rotate players we ran Grundy/Hayward/Heeney into the ground, Gulden was trying some ridiculous 100% TOG every game like the game isnt hard enough as it is.

There's no way around it , we choked

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

There's no way around it , we choked

Been having a chat about this today. Don’t think we actually choked, we weren’t up by 44 points and got run down nor were we 6 strokes ahead like Greg Norman.

We just didn’t get near it.

Reckon Choking is a compliment for what was dished up !

 

[melbournehammer]

FWIW here are what the three tall forwards in recent premiership teams have averaged in goals, and where ours sit among them:

Brisbane (2024) - 4.79 goals a game
Sydney (2024) - 4.18
Melbourne (2021) - 4.02
Collingwood (2023) - 3.29

We absolutely could've made ours work in our forward line. I don't think they'd be enough to, say, carry out a dynasty, but win a one off flag with like Melbourne & Collingwood did for sure. Especially considering we also were getting more goals from our midfield to go with them than either of those sides.

But who did those sides have alongside their talls?

Melbourne - Pickett, Neal-Bullen, Spargo, Harmes

Collingwood - Elliott, McCreery, Hill, Ginnivan

Sydney - Papley, Hayward, Parker, Jordon

One of those groups is not like the other. Absolutely nothing against those Swans named, they're all obviously good players, great players in Papley's case. But it's the slowest, most lacking in pressure forward line imaginable.

It's been a few weeks and I am still dumbfounded that Horse & co named it.

To be honest the demons and pies forwards often had a tall that could play like a medium. Jackson was an athletic mid as well as a tall. Mihocek plays like a defender in the forward line.

The truth is that Parker played like Ben brown and frampton. It’s the absolutely mad outlier. We added a small to the tall line up we didn’t retain four athletic medium t small players.

I must have said it a thousand times. Having Parker in the forward line could only work if it was at the expense of a tall. It was so so obvious.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Been having a chat about this today. Don’t think we actually choked, we weren’t up by 44 points and got run down nor were we 6 strokes ahead like Greg Norman.

We just didn’t get near it.

Reckon Choking is a compliment for what was dished up !

Choked before we started. Not mentally or emotionally up for it. In a few cases also physically. Lost the plot much earlier in the season around round 15. Staggered home.

 

[caesar88]

Horse IMO just needs to stand for something as a coach next year. No more outs or free passes for players who won't put their head over it or stick tackles or even attempt tackles or run defensively, etc.

If you want a tough team on the biggest day you have to actually toughen them up. It's not gonna happen by itself.

 

[melbournehammer]

To be honest the demons and pies forwards often had a tall that could play like a medium. Jackson was an athletic mid as well as a tall. Mihocek plays like a defender in the forward line.

The truth is that Parker played like Ben brown and frampton. It’s the absolutely mad outlier. We added a small to the tall line up we didn’t retain four athletic medium t small players.

I must have said it a thousand times. Having Parker in the forward line could only work if it was at the expense of a tall. It was so so obvious.

I think the era of tall forwards has gone.

Football has 36 players within a kick of the ball occasionally 32. Tall forwards are necessary to create a contest for dump kicks. It’s the medium and small that can get up the field and back and then lead out.

Once the ball hits the ground as it does in about 90% of contests the tall players are a hindrance and the shorter ones dominant. The three tall set up has failed us again and again and arguably only worked when buddy was playing a free wheeling tall. 2014 was the nadir of a tall forward set up where Tippett buddy Goodes Reid were just too slow and we got burned.

Fox hayward and heeney if there can all play tall if isolated and can make a contest on the ground if they can’t.

McDonald and McLean is enough. And if one goes down amartey can come in.

I said the latter after the Collingwood round 1 game. I’ve seen only confirmation of this since. I also said in the same match that we needed Grundy to reduce the number of frees against. I feel like both of these views ended up being vindicated over the course of the season.

And that’s part of the reason I’m so pissed. If a Nuffield like me can see stuff how the actual **** was it allowed to get to the point where grundys frees ed to him being uncompetitive in ruck contests and we ended up with a slower less dynamic forward line at the end.

So frustrated with coaches.

 

[melbournehammer]

Horse IMO just needs to stand for something as a coach next year. No more outs or free passes for players who won't put their head over it or stick tackles or even attempt tackles or run defensively, etc.

If you want a tough team on the biggest day you have to actually toughen them up. It's not gonna happen by itself.

Maybe they need t walk over hot coals or get an army coaching crew in to yell abuse at the players..l

 

[Day_night_honourer]

I dunno about anyone else but I'm getting more and more pissed off about this result with every passing day.

I saw a stat that we have the 14th worst record in grand finals in the comp. I would hazard a guess the disastrous last decade has played a big part in that.

I'm pissed off because there's been so much wastage. Wastage of great seasons, wastage of great players, wastage of fans' time and money trying to get travel & tickets.

I'm pissed off because it's gonna feel hard for literally anything to matter next year. We could go 23-0 in the home & away season with 15 players in the All Australian team and it will be hard to be excited about our chances of ultimate success.

I'm pissed off because you just never know when your time in the sun will be up and you will become the next North, or West Coast, looking at a decade of misery & mediocrity. That would be an incredibly hard pill to swallow knowing we had a decade of sustained success and had nothing to show for it.

I'm pissed off because it feels like so many teams/players/coaches get their fairytale and none of ours do. And in most cases it's been us who have given them (Bulldogs, Matt Spangher, Patrick Dangerfield, Joe Daniher, Chris Fagan)

I'm pissed off because now we are struggling to even keep our hold on the 'how great and successful a club are the Swans' vibe that at least we had for a long time. People are starting to realise there's actually not much point making finals every year if some basket case club can come along and win the same amount of flags as you have this century in just a few short years.

All of the above because of just four games of footy. Although, as I've said numerous times and been consistent with, this year felt like the first where we were kind of asking for it all along, despite notching up the wins.

Just pissed off. Sorry for the rant. Maybe it will be therapeutic reading for some.

Oh shite! I'm really not looking forward to your 2025 season posts already .. before this main day atrocity actually occured when we were still #1 they were negative enough!

Guess we are on different ends of the supporter spectrum:
I personally had an awesome year filled with mostly elation and hope expecting the grand prize at the end...only to be shattered beyond belief 2 Saturdays ago. In hindsight glad to enjoy the ride until I was tossed off it from a great height.
On the other hand you were questioning team GF-contention viability mostly from mid-season on and seemed not be enjoying the ride, expecting imminent failure at the end. I sort of expected your grief would be less as you had almost foreseen it from all your doubts? But obviously not.

Point is, hmmm...not sure! I guess it's just different strokes for different folks...
Rest assured we will now all wallow together in the shitpit mudpool of despair known as the the aftermath, as none of us true supporters are alone with this uncomfortable feeling - that 'lump' in our bellies.

 

[caesar88]

Oh shite! I'm really not looking forward to your 2025 season posts already .. before this main day atrocity actually occured when we were still #1 they were negative enough!

Guess we are on different ends of the supporter spectrum:
I personally had an awesome year filled with mostly elation and hope expecting the grand prize at the end...only to be shattered beyond belief 2 Saturdays ago. In hindsight glad to enjoy the ride until I was tossed off it from a great height.
On the other hand you were questioning team GF-contention viability mostly from mid-season on and seemed not be enjoying the ride, expecting imminent failure at the end. I sort of expected your grief would be less as you had almost foreseen it from all your doubts? But obviously not.

Point is, hmmm...not sure! I guess it's just different strokes for different folks...
Rest assured we will now all wallow together in the shitpit mudpool of despair known as the the aftermath, as none of us true supporters are alone with this uncomfortable feeling - that 'lump' in our bellies.

Haha I tried to just enjoy the season for what it was. I try to take it on board when people accuse me of being negative or overthinking things, because it's important to step back and think hang on a minute am I actually just being a negative nelly for nothing?

So the whole season for me was a constant back and forth between trying to focus on all the good things - and as you say, there were a lot of good things - but having this nagging thought at the back of my mind saying "I'm not convinced..."

Even now, as I said, I'm pissed off about the GF performance and finding myself being more and more so the further removed from it, which is strange as I thought it would be the opposite. But you just have to keep finding things to be positive about I guess, otherwise you drive yourself crazy!

 

[DobmusEdge]

All of the above because of just four games of footy.

THIS

There would be no Hawthorn threepeat if we had of turned up in 2014. Swans would be at least equal billing as the greatest team of that era. Its never been explained why the players were so soft against the same opp they were so magnificent against two years earlier

And more so if we got the job done in 2016. And bulldogs would still have been just happy to get to their first GF in 45 years

2022, while horrific to endure on the day, didn’t burn quite the same way

And now, 2024, trauma upon trauma. Now I see no point in caring about anything

It has sealed out reputation as mentally weak, as chokers, as being flaccid when it matters.

All because of four games of footy

At least we will always have 2005 and 2012 …we used it rock the G on grand final day

 

[Nuggetz]

I hope some people are reviewing the coaching too. It can't all be on the players review.