Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[lordbob]

Not all have the same

A Investment
B Restrictions (lack of F\S [2])
C Operate in non traditional states
D Have had AFL ignore investment & development in their states

(see earlier posts)

Happy for the AFL to fully funds all NGA's and Academies, remove priority access so long as they also remove F\S (outdated and distorts the draft) and stops players from taking (via stating they want to stay at home) and making all talent available across the draft.

Also remove the benefits for crapness in Priority Picks (North Recently as an example) and additional picks.

You know, remove all the problems.

nah, go the other way.

Encourage all clubs to invest more in academies and give them all equal benefits. New teams without fs options should get temporary advantages to the system eg larger catchment areas but only temporarily eg 50 years or so. More investment into youth development the better.

 

[Number37]

They are a great thing, but I think they need to look at the concessions in some degree, but not over board like they did to the Vic teams NGA.

No problems with reviewing it as time passes, even if that means taking away all concessions, as long as it is justified.
All of the hand wringing, from the usual suspects, about academies always follows the Swans winning games.
It's almost like those people think that's the ONLY reason the Swans are successful.

I have said it before and I will say it again...
If high draft picks and draft concessions were such a surefire way of getting success then why haven't Gold Coast or GWS won a flag yet?

 

[Syd]

NSW and QLD did not have the same dedicated pathways of the traditional football States.
There was no VFL, SANFL or WAFL to develop juniors.
Hence the development of the Northern Academies.
To promote growth of talent in those states for the benefit of the sport.

Every local kid drafted is one less drawn away from the traditional states.
And eventually, more talent developed that can be absorbed into the Northern Clubs

From 2014: https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/5076/qbe-sydney-swans-academy-explained

But in true AFL tradition, once something starts to work we create a response to the uproar.
No angst until the Heeney draft IIRC (Mills following)
So,

From 2016: https://www.afl.com.au/news/152063/victorian-clubs-handed-afl-funding-for-academies

2018 Draft (the infamous Blakey draft) saw Tarryn Thomas

26

Tarryn Thomas

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.3

5star

CL

0.9

3star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.2

4star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

0.4

3star

(North Melbourne #8) and (Isaac Quaynor

3

Isaac Quaynor

Age

24

Ht

180cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

244.0

4star

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

244.0

4star

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

5star

MG

244.0

4star

#13) both taken in the top-20.
There were more NGA and academy selections and F\S that year.

But again, once another Club gets a perceived benefit greater (JUH), queue more uproar and rule changes.

No doubt there will be more restrictions on Sydney and Brisbane following the draft last year (Brisbane) and Sydney's current form.

So be it, nothing stays the same forever, sepecially in knee jerk AFL headquarters.

 

[Syd]

nah, go the other way.

Encourage all clubs to invest more in academies and give them all equal benefits. New teams without fs options should get temporary advantages to the system eg larger catchment areas but only temporarily eg 50 years or so. More investment into youth development the better.

I disagree, but thats kind of the point.

Can't please everyone.

 

[Syd]

You’ve wine premierships and been in finals most years since we’ve been in the competition

Tell me again how disadvantaged you are.

Take a look inside your Club Lach.

Recruitment
Development
Coaching (Game tactics)

Tell me how much of your 'disadvantage' has been based on our success.

We have some advantages, currently reaping the benefits of the Academy training. Dedicated Home Ground (although uniquely absent of 'home team umpiring').

Your Club is in a traditional AFL State, you have also the ability to target WA players you have ignored that want to return home (such as the SA Clubs are currently doing) [which is exactly why the Northern Academies exist, to create local talent]. and the dedicated Home Ground. Your travel > than ours but even our Club President is vocal on that front on behalf of the WA Clubs.

Maybe focus on all the inequities instead of obsessing on one.

 

[errant bounce]

It's because those clubs actually make inroads into a competing market, the propped up Vic clubs don't offer anything.

Not that I'm advocating getting rid of any, BTW.

Yeah jeez the Giants had a mega crowd yesterday against basically their biggest rival!

 

[loki04]

No problems with reviewing it as time passes, even if that means taking away all concessions, as long as it is justified.
All of the hand wringing, from the usual suspects, about academies always follows the Swans winning games.
It's almost like those people think that's the ONLY reason the Swans are successful.

I have said it before and I will say it again...
If high draft picks and draft concessions were such a surefire way of getting success then why haven't Gold Coast or GWS won a flag yet?

GWS didn't because Vic teams poached the crap out of them as they matured.
Could field a finals quality team with thier "trade outs".

J.Cameron, A.Treloar, D.Shiel, T.Adams, N.Wilson, T.Tarranto, J.Hopper, W.Hoskin-Elliott, A.Tomlinson, J.Bruce, L.Plowman, Z.Williams, A.Corr, R.Lobb, J.Finlayson, B.Hill, T.Bruhn, A.Bonnar plus more.

 

[Spirit Level]

Failmantle
View attachment 1993260

Googled Fremantle NGA Players

• 2022 Drafted. Josh Draper. Peel Thunder. Conrad Williams. Claremont/Halls Creek.
• 2021 Drafted. Eric Benning. Claremont/Kununurra. Jesse Motlop. Carlton FC.
• 2020 Drafted. Brandon Walker. East Fremantle/Ghana. Joel Western. ...
• 2019 Drafted. Liam Henry. Derby. Leno Thomas. ...
• 2018 Drafted. Jason Carter. Wyndham. FFC MAJOR PARTNERS.

We don't get to match bids on our players before pick 40 in the draft where Northern teams can do it from pick 1.

What part of that being unfair are you not understanding

 

[Descent]

We don't get to match bids on our players before pick 40 in the draft where Northern teams can do it from pick 1.

What part of that being unfair are you not understanding

I’m sure if you wrote (like this) you would also have [reading comprehension issues]. and you would also write really long sentences that are irrelevant in the context of a thread that is about the swans academy and how it’s a bit of a joke.

I hope that clears things up.

 

[Number37]

GWS didn't because Vic teams poached the crap out of them as they matured.
Could field a finals quality team with thier "trade outs".

J.Cameron, A.Treloar, D.Shiel, T.Adams, N.Wilson, T.Tarranto, J.Hopper, W.Hoskin-Elliott, A.Tomlinson, J.Bruce, L.Plowman, Z.Williams, A.Corr, R.Lobb, J.Finlayson, B.Hill, T.Bruhn, A.Bonnar plus more.

Is it possible to fit all those players under the salary cap??

By the time they're developed into quality AFL players, they are at the point where they can demand a good salary.
They get chased by other clubs with $$$$$.

 

[WillHayward]

I've been saying this for sometime now. This idea about the strength of the Swans academy is a big footy myth..our list is very very average. Players coming up through the academy threadbare.

On Saturday we had Pete Ladhams and Aaron Francis as emergencies. That's not good depth.

In terms of kids playing the game and being drafted, NSW remains very weak.
If anything it's an indictment on the other 16 teams we made it to the GF because we seriously aren't very good.

Lions Academy would thrash the Swans academy by 20 goals

 

[Elixuh]

I've been saying this for sometime now. This idea about the strength of the Swans academy is a big footy myth..our list is very very average. Players coming up through the academy threadbare.

On Saturday we had Pete Ladhams and Aaron Francis as emergencies. That's not good depth.

In terms of kids playing the game and being drafted, NSW remains very weak.
If anything it's an indictment on the other 16 teams we made it to the GF because we seriously aren't very good.

Lions Academy would thrash the Swans academy by 20 goals

Wot.

Braeden Campbell pick 5
Isaac Heeney pick 2
Nick Blakey pick 10
Callum Mills pick 3
Gulden pick 32

So excluding Gulden, almost 20% of your best 22 is high draft pick academy players lol.

Brisbane's highest academy pickup is Eric Hipwood at pick 14. Most of our academy draftees have been in the mid-30s to 60s range.

 

[WillHayward]

Wot.

Braeden Campbell pick 5
Isaac Heeney pick 2
Nick Blakey pick 10
Callum Mills pick 3
Gulden pick 32

So excluding Gulden, almost 20% of your best 22 is high draft pick academy players lol.

Brisbane's highest academy pickup is Eric Hipwood at pick 14. Most of our academy draftees have been in the mid-30s to 60s range.

So we over paid for Campbell.
Gulden was in the open draft and nobody bid besides Geelong in the 30s.
New youngsters threadbare
Your academy now would thrash ours.
Your VFL/NEAFL side is better every year.
Sam Marshall will be drafted

 

[eastfreo75]

I've been saying this for sometime now. This idea about the strength of the Swans academy is a big footy myth..our list is very very average. Players coming up through the academy threadbare.

On Saturday we had Pete Ladhams and Aaron Francis as emergencies. That's not good depth.

In terms of kids playing the game and being drafted, NSW remains very weak.
If anything it's an indictment on the other 16 teams we made it to the GF because we seriously aren't very good.

Lions Academy would thrash the Swans academy by 20 goals

People don’t care about the depth, they worried about getting first round picks for next to nothing.

 

[Elixuh]

So we over paid for Campbell.
Gulden was in the open draft and nobody bid besides Geelong in the 30s.
New youngsters threadbare
Your academy now would thrash ours.
Your VFL/NEAFL side is better every year.
Sam Marshall will be drafted

So what you're saying is its swings and roundabouts. Sydney had a very good period where they got a decent crop from the academy and now its quietened down. You can't expect to be getting the hauls you were from your academy every few years. Developing talent isn't linear.

Any player that is draftable is a win. Harris Andrews was pick 61.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

I've been saying this for sometime now. This idea about the strength of the Swans academy is a big footy myth..our list is very very average. Players coming up through the academy threadbare.

On Saturday we had Pete Ladhams and Aaron Francis as emergencies. That's not good depth.

In terms of kids playing the game and being drafted, NSW remains very weak.
If anything it's an indictment on the other 16 teams we made it to the GF because we seriously aren't very good.

Lions Academy would thrash the Swans academy by 20 goals

So basically you want COLA back and some more handouts from AFL. Not enough you have:

1. An academy
2. Rorted COLA to to poach Franklin
3. Employed John Blakey a 350+ veteran for North so that you could get your hands on his son

Bloods kulture and all that, please

 

[WillHayward]

So basically you want COLA back and some more handouts from AFL. Not enough you have:

1. An academy
2. Rorted COLA to to poach Franklin
3. Employed John Blakey a 350+ veteran for North so that you could get your hands on his son

Bloods kulture and all that, please

I don't want anything.
I think our list mgt is shit. That's the main issue imo.
Three year deal for Taylor Adams says it all really.
Just an indictment on the other 16 clubs that we made the granny.
We aren't very good .
I'm pushing back on the myth we have some amazing list because of the academy. We don't.

 

[kickazz]

So basically you want COLA back and some more handouts from AFL. Not enough you have:

1. An academy
2. Rorted COLA to to poach Franklin
3. Employed John Blakey a 350+ veteran for North so that you could get your hands on his son

Bloods kulture and all that, please

come on man it's been more than ten years now.....

 

[Mantastic]

I've been saying this for sometime now. This idea about the strength of the Swans academy is a big footy myth..our list is very very average. Players coming up through the academy threadbare.

On Saturday we had Pete Ladhams and Aaron Francis as emergencies. That's not good depth.

In terms of kids playing the game and being drafted, NSW remains very weak.
If anything it's an indictment on the other 16 teams we made it to the GF because we seriously aren't very good.

Lions Academy would thrash the Swans academy by 20 goals

So if the academy is no good, you wouldn't mind the Swans not having priority access to the talent?

 

[SM]

So if the academy is no good, you wouldn't mind the Swans not having priority access to the talent?

What talent are we getting access to? The talent we're creating you mean? Should we go back to the Scholarship program?

 

[WillHayward]

So if the academy is no good, you wouldn't mind the Swans not having priority access to the talent?

I'm saying the following :

1. The academy is not as good as bigfooty makes out
2. The AFL would still be concerned at the small number of players being drafted from NSW overall.
3. Out list is very very thin.

Bigfooty pretends we have some star studded list courtesy of "AFL handouts". But we don't.

 

[WillHayward]

So if the academy is no good, you wouldn't mind the Swans not having priority access to the talent?

I'm saying the following :

1. The academy is not as good as bigfooty makes out
2. The AFL would still be concerned at th small number of players being drafted from NSW overall.
3. Our list is very very thin.

Bigfooty pretends we have some star studded list courtesy of "AFL handouts". But we don't.

 

[WillHayward]

So if the academy is no good, you wouldn't mind the Swans not having priority access to the talent?

I'm saying the following :

1. The academy is not as good as bigfooty makes out
2. The AFL would still be concerned at the small number of players being drafted from NSW overall.
3. Our list is very very thin.

Bigfooty pretends we have some star studded list courtesy of "AFL handouts". But we don't. Taylor Adams until 2026 for god's sake.

16 clubs need to ask themselves how the hell the Swans finished on top. We aren't very good. No backline..no key fwd.

 

[Bloods86]

So basically you want COLA back and some more handouts from AFL. Not enough you have:

1. An academy
2. Rorted COLA to to poach Franklin
3. Employed John Blakey a 350+ veteran for North so that you could get your hands on his son

Bloods kulture and all that, please

Weird how none of you can ever explain how COLA was rorted.

Yeah I think Blakey was always going to be exposed to footy, but the idea we employed his Dad when Nick was 7 years old, just to get to him... what?

Don't look back in anger mate.

 

[Obeanie1]

800 + academites from ages 10-19 in the program each year.
80+ coaches
Swans Foundation pumping >$2m/ year into the program.

Swans listed academy graduates Blakey, Mills, Heeney, Wicks, Bell, Campbell, Gulden.

Sydney is the largest junior sports talent catchment area in the country.
Why wouldn't the AFL support the academy and encourage kids from other sports to try their hand at Aussie Rules?

Why is there so much angst about the academies from "traditional" AFL supporters?
How are the academies anything but a good thing?

Explain exactly where the money comes from and be truthful.

You say the Swans Foundation.

Where does the Foundation get the funds?

Exactly how much is funded from Sydney profits?

Fact is the AFL and sponsors fund the academiea. Not large club cash investment. The club runs it and benefits 100% and puts in very little of its own money.

The weekend was the battle of the AFL's pet clubs who are driving TV Rights deals. The two clubs in Northern expansion states with the biggest leg up any teams get. A borderline fixed horse race.

And they got flogged again. AFL will need to bump up the Swans handouts more. Or maybe reduce those the Lions get.