Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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BrunoV said:
Lore, I think I've done it.

I had to come to terms with a best 22 loaded with players I would never have put on the list, let alone have in a best 22 that has started to look bloody awful. It's difficult to capture the combination of uncertainty and projection required to represent the best team and the list the way I want to.

So many grievances...at the end of 2017 there were 3 players to me who would clearly be in the conversation as being in the top few players in their respective positions in the league: Daniher, McKenna and Fantasia, real points of difference for the team which was well balanced at both ends. We've since added Saad, Ridley and Draper and are primed to lose the original 3 (with one already gone).

Virtually nothing meaningful has been done in 3 completed seasons now to address the hole that was already gaping in the inside of our midfield in 2017 (given that Jobe struggled his way through his last year). The usual policy of refusing to develop a team has been in full swing.

I've tried to represent the list as I think of it in a functional sense. Each player is ranked in at least one position as I think things stood about 1 month ago (before we knew who was going to retire, etc), this is the prefix before the player's name. I wanted to do it this way to show the extent of change that will have occurred, or at least that I think will need to occur, in the 12 months before round 1 2021. I've sorted the players in a list based on what I think should realistically happen (firing Heppell, Smith and Townsend out of a ceremonial delistings cannon is not going to happen).

Notes for interpretation:
- in spoiler is a side for those of you who use BF in dark mode;
- the information is age the player will be in 2021, height/weigh;
- bold grey / black font are clearly best 22 players with at least 100 games left in them;
- normal grey/black font are proven or essentially proven depth players with at least 100 games left;
- bold white / grey font are best 22 players whose positions in the side are as much of a problem as not. It's the result of age, (developed) lack of mobility, desire to leave and/or an issue with the balance of the side;
- normal white / grey font are players whose days are numbered because they're past it or we've seen enough to know they're not going to be much use going forward;
- bold red font are mainly projections for a best 22 based on things we have tried to do (including in scratch matches), player attributes and the things I think we should do to try to maximise the strengths of the list as they currently stand, particularly to overcome some of the losses which will occur now or in the next 12 months;
- normal red font are mainly untested/unproven kids who get at least 12 more months before I'd classify them as normal white font. I threw Brand and Eyre into the team to feel a bit better knowing there are some options;
- the midfield classifications are General Midfield to create a distinction with Inside Midfield which to me are the two specialist position in the centre square (outside mids are wingmen and we don't tag). This both highlights the problem with our list and also represents what I think the balance of the team should be. I would only play 2 one-dimensional inside mids in any team (where running power is a problem). Ideally the inside mids have the running power to play more of a generalist role;
- there isn't really a distinction in the types of key defender, whether a player lines up at Full Back or Centre Half Back is largely determined by the opponent. Historically, for example, Hooker plays at full back on Hawkins against Geelong whereas if we play Richmond it would be Hurley on Riewoldt; and
- the key forwards do tend to play roles that are suited to them regardless of the opponent so I have gone with the traditional Full Forward and Centre Half Forward description.


[TD valign="top"] SD1: Adam Saad, 27, 178/78 (HB3) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD2: Michael Hurley, 31, 193/92 (3TD3)
KD6: Cian McBride, 20, 197/90
KD3: Paddy Ambrose, 30, 191/92 [KD8: Cody Brand, 19, 195/85] [/TD][TD valign="top"] 3TD1: Aaron Francis, 24, 193/94 (KD4)
3TD4: Martin Gleeson , 27, 191/86 (HB6)[/TD]

[TD valign="top"] HB2: Mason Redman, 24, 188/87 (SD2)
HB2: Conor McKenna, 25, 184/86 (SD3)
HB7: Ross McQuillan, 22, 188/80 (SD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD1: Cale Hooker, 33, 198/105 (FF4)
KD7: Nick Bryan, 20, 203/90 (R3) KD5: Brendon Zerk-Thatcher, 23, 195/86 [/TD][TD valign="top"] HB1: Jordan Ridley, 23, 192/91 (3TD2)
HB4: Matt Guelfi , 24, 184/82 (W7)[/TD]

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"] R1: Sam Draper, 23, 205/110
R2: Tom Bellchambers, 32, 202/115 R3: Andrew Phillips, 30, 201/108 [R4: Henry Crauford, 24, 204/107 (FF3)]
[R5: Nick Bryan, 20, 203/90 (R3)] [/TD][TD valign="top"] GM1: Dylan Shiel, 28, 182/83
GM5: Devon Smith, 28, 174/77 (HF3/HB6)
GM6: Dyson Heppell, 29, 189/84 (W6) [/TD][TD valign="top"] IM1: Darcy Parrish, 24, 180/80
IM2: Dylan Clarke, 23, 187/87 IM3: Mitch Hibberd, 25, 192/95
IM4: Josh Begley, 23, 188/92 [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] GM3: Andrew McGrath, 23, 178/83
GM4: Will Snelling , (HF2/SF3)
GM7: Tom Hird, 20, 182/70 (W7) [/TD][TD valign="top"] W1: Zac Merrett, 26, 180/83 (GM2) W5: Braydon Ham, 22, 181/75 [/TD][TD valign="top"] W2: Kyle Langford, 25, 191/90 (HF4/3TF5) W4: Tom Cutler, 26, 192/92 W6: Kobe Mutch, 23, 187/84 [/TD]

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"] HF1: Jayden Laverde, 25, 191/91 (3TF2/IM) HF2: David Zaharakis, 31, 180/79 (W3) [/TD][TD valign="top"] CHF1: James Stewart, 27, 199/100 (FF2/KD)
CHF3: Harrison Jones, 20, 196/80 (3TF4)
[CHF3: Josh Eyre, 19, 198/85] [/TD][TD valign="top"] SF1: Orazio Fantasia, 26, 178/77 SF5: Ned Cahill, 20, 178/77
SF6: Lachlan Johnson, 20, 176/75 [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] 3TF1: Jake Stringer, 27, 192/95 (FF/IM) 3TF3: Jacob Townsend, 28, 188/90 [/TD][TD valign="top"] FF1: Joe Daniher, 27, 201/100 (CHF2) FF3: Shaun McKernan, 31, 196/100 FF4: Henry Crauford, 24, 204/107 (R4) FF5: Noah Gown, 21, 194/91 [/TD][TD valign="top"] SF2: Anthony McD Tip, 28, 171/77 SF4: Irving Mosquito, 21, 176/72 [/TD]



[TD valign="top"] SD1: Adam Saad, 27, 178/78 (HB3) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD2: Michael Hurley, 31, 193/92 (3TD3)
KD6: Cian McBride, 20, 197/90
KD3: Paddy Ambrose, 30, 191/92 KD8: Cody Brand, 19, 195/85 [/TD][TD valign="top"] 3TD1: Aaron Francis, 24, 193/94 (KD4) 3TD4: Martin Gleeson, 27, 191/86 (HB/SD) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] HB2: Mason Redman, 24, 188/87 (SD2)
HB2: Conor McKenna, 25, 184/86 (SD3)
HB6: Ross McQuillan, 2, 188/80 (SD) [/TD][TD valign="top"] KD1: Cale Hooker, 33, 198/105 (FF4)
KD7: Nick Bryan, 20, 203/90 (R3)
KD5: Brendon Zerk-Thatcher, 23, 195/86[/TD][TD valign="top"] HB1: Jordan Ridley, 23, 192/91 (3TD2)
HB4: Matt Guelfi, 24, 184/82 (W7) [/TD]

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"] R1: Sam Draper, 23, 205/110
R2: Tom Bellchambers, 32, 202/115
R3: Andrew Phillips, 30, 201/108
[R4: Henry Crauford, 24, 204/107 (FF3)]
[R5: Nick Bryan, 20, 203/90 (R3)] [/TD][TD valign="top"] GM1: Dylan Shiel, 28, 182/83
GM5: Devon Smith, 28, 174/77 (HF3/HB5)
GM6: Dyson Heppell, 29, 189/84 (W6) [/TD][TD valign="top"] IM: Darcy Parrish, 24, 180/80
IM2: Dylan Clarke , 23, 187/87
IM3: Mitch Hibberd, 25, 192/95
IM4: Josh Begley, 23, 188/92 [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] GM3: Andrew McGrath, 23, 178/83
GM4: Will Snelling, (HF2/SF3) GM7: Tom Hird, 20, 182/70 (W7) [/TD][TD valign="top"] W1: Zac Merrett, 26, 180/83 (GM2) W5: Braydon Ham, 22, 181/75 [/TD][TD valign="top"] W2: Kyle Langford, 25, 191/90 (HF4/3TF5)
W4: Tom Cutler , 26, 192/92
W6: Kobe Mutch, 23, 187/84 [/TD]

[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"] HF1: Jayden Laverde, 25, 191/91 (3TF2/IM)
HF2: David Zaharakis , 31, 180/79 (W3)[/TD][TD valign="top"] CHF1: James Stewart, 27, 199/100 (FF2/KD)
CHF2: Harrison Jones, 20, 196/80 (3TF4)
CHF3: Josh Eyre, 19, 198/85 [/TD][TD valign="top"] SF1: Orazio Fantasia, 26, 178/77 SF5: Ned Cahill, 20, 178/77
SF6: Lachlan Johnson, 20, 176/75 [/TD]

[TD valign="top"] 3TF1: Jake Stringer, 27, 192/95 (FF/IM)
3TF3: Jacob Townsend , 28, 188/90[/TD][TD valign="top"] FF1: Joe Daniher, 27, 201/100 (CHF2)
FF4: Henry Crauford, 24, 204/107 (R2) FF3: Shaun McKernan, 31, 196/100 FF5: Noah Gown, 21, 194/91 [/TD][TD valign="top"] SF2: Anthony McD Tip, 28, 171/77 SF4: Irving Mosquito, 21, 176/72 [/TD]
Click to expand...
Update please :)
 
Lore said:
This is using footywire data, but it looks like footywire is mostly up to date (at least as far as putting draftees on lists, dunno about contracts)
Click to expand...

186 - 190 range...only 4. Absolutely alarming.

Lowest in the competition. Though the Premiers have a lower number for this as well.
 

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TheGrizz said:
My realistic player comparisons:

Nik Cox: Peak Justin Westhoff (200cm wing version)
Archie Perkins: 2018-9 Christian Petracca
Zac Reid: Lachie Keefe with better skills
Josh Eyre: Nick Larkey?
Cody Brand: Alex Keath
Click to expand...

Larkey and Keath? Lol. Delist.

Positively comparing to someone who is a good or great AFL player.

Perkins is more like Rozee
Reid plays like Andrews
Eyre gets a Lucas comparison
Brand plays like Talia
Cox is being compared to Blicavs
 
The most interesting line going forward. Essentially we have Stringer and Tippa locked. Stewart likely, mysteries elsewhere. Langford (mid?), Perkins (wing?) Laverde, Wright, Jones, Snelling, Hird, Johnson, Smith (hb?), Cahill, Parish. Wouldn't surprise me if any of them were named round 1 barring injury.

My guess for round 1 is:

HF: Jones, Wright, Laverde
FF: Stringer, Stewart, Tippa.

+ Smith and Perkins rotating through elsewhere.
 
Red Black and Blue said:
The most interesting line going forward. Essentially we have Stringer and Tippa locked. Stewart likely, mysteries elsewhere. Langford (mid?), Perkins (wing?) Laverde, Wright, Jones, Snelling, Hird, Johnson, Smith (hb?), Cahill, Parish. Wouldn't surprise me if any of them were named round 1 barring injury.

My guess for round 1 is:

HF: Jones, Wright, Laverde
FF: Stringer, Stewart, Tippa.

+ Smith and Perkins rotating through elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Snelling is a lock for Round 1 if fit, I’d assume he’s on the HFF again.

Jones & Laverde are probably sharing one spot at the moment, given Smith & Perkins might play off a HFF as well.

Also Zaharakis may well play the first half a season or so.
 
I think the most likely scenario round 1 will be;-

Langford Stewart Snelling
Stringer 2MP Tippa

BUT - we could see something like this with a few of the older guys which could be just as effective;-

Laverde Stewart Zakka
Stringer Hooker Tippa


At least we have some options...!!
 
Bombers36 said:
I think the most likely scenario round 1 will be;-

Langford Stewart Snelling
Stringer 2MP Tippa

BUT - we could see something like this with a few of the older guys which could be just as effective;-

Laverde Stewart Zakka
Stringer Hooker Tippa


At least we have some options...!!
Click to expand...


I’d much rather we let Zakka and Hooker ease into 2021 - no doubt we will get injuries at some point and they are the perfect back up options up forward - but neither of them should be focal points we are trying to build our forward line around in 2021. I’d rather see Jones or Perkins play early on


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
McGuane has ranked the forward lines today. He has us at 14th

The top liners: Kyle Langford (16, 81), David Zaharakis (10, 65), Peter Wright (0,0), James Stewart (10, 55), Jake Stringer (10, 53), Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (17, 69), Will Snelling (17, 69)

The top-ups: Jayden Laverde (6, 58), Irving Mosquito (4, 55), Ned Cahill (3, 30), Nick Hind (10, 62)

McGuane says: Most of the year this year they had no Orazio Fantasia or Joe Daniher. They are two players that make things happen. Too much was left to Shaun McKernan, James Stewart and Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti. Kyle Langford made some progress, Jake Stringer played only 10 games this year but when he is fit the Bombers forward line looks far more potent. So the question for the Bombers moving forward with the recruitment of Peter Wright is, can they get better? They’ve lost some big names and certainly have to do some work on locking the ball in when it comes in to their forward line. Tippa is the only forward that wants to win the ball back through a fierce desire to chase down an opponent. Essendon’s forward-half pressure factor was 16th in the comp this year. That’s not good enough. The Bombers also don’t have enough players who can mark the footy to place pressure on the opposition defence. The Bombers ranked 14th for scores per inside 50. They were also 14th for points scored. Even though they won four of their first five games this year, their highest score in those games was 12.7 against Sydney. Ben Rutten needs to change his attacking philosophy and become less structured with their ball movement. Getting forwards to compete is a priority.
 
Twomey wrote a thing about our forward line too, suggesting Hooker forward and Stewart back. Also wants more goals from the midfielders.

www.afl.com.au

The burning question Bombers must address under Rutten

Essendon leaked goals last season but it's at the other end of the ground where the new coach might have more headaches
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

I think Hurley has also been training forward?
 

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Lore said:
Twomey wrote a thing about our forward line too, suggesting Hooker forward and Stewart back. Also wants more goals from the midfielders.

www.afl.com.au

The burning question Bombers must address under Rutten

Essendon leaked goals last season but it's at the other end of the ground where the new coach might have more headaches
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

I think Hurley has also been training forward?
Click to expand...


According to BB he’s been forward.

I don’t mind Hurley forward but we really can’t consider him as a key. Just doesn’t have the marking. Stewart likely down back, so maybe a Wright, Jones Hurley trifecta is the way to go. Stringer in fourth slot, Tippa and likely Snelling or Cahill to round it out.
 
Last edited:
Megabattimus said:
Don't get why we'd play Stewart down back. Feels like a massive waste of his talents.
Click to expand...

Stewart has played back a few times and really killed it. I think it would be great if Rutten can use him like we have Hooker previously- starting back and then being swung forward if required depending on match ups/form etc


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
vass44 said:
Stewart has played back a few times and really killed it. I think it would be great if Rutten can use him like we have Hooker previously- starting back and then being swung forward if required depending on match ups/form etc


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
If we're going to play Stewart back id prefer to see him settle there permanently. He has looked very good there before and a consistent season in defence could be huge for us. We really have been lacking there for a while since Hurley/Hooker have been struggling for a couple of years, Ambrose is always injured and BZT has looked average when he's come in. He's still 26 so should have a good few years in him while Reid and Brand develop.
 
Bjchan13 said:
If we're going to play Stewart back id prefer to see him settle there permanently. He has looked very good there before and a consistent season in defence could be huge for us. We really have been lacking there for a while since Hurley/Hooker have been struggling for a couple of years, Ambrose is always injured and BZT has looked average when he's come in. He's still 26 so should have a good few years in him while Reid and Brand develop.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who watched the first half of Hurley's season. Hooker has looked more and more cooked for the past few years, but Hurley has been brilliant at times. I'm less confident that Hurls has hit the age barrier - seems to be more about injuries with him than purely being cooked.
 
Space Indaver said:
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who watched the first half of Hurley's season. Hooker has looked more and more cooked for the past few years, but Hurley has been brilliant at times. I'm less confident that Hurls has hit the age barrier - seems to be more about injuries with him than purely being cooked.
Click to expand...

Hurley struggles on the big forwards, and without a fit Hooker there, BZT can’t really strand a Hawkins or a Lynch. I think with a fit Ambrose he’d look better.
 
Space Indaver said:
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who watched the first half of Hurley's season. Hooker has looked more and more cooked for the past few years, but Hurley has been brilliant at times. I'm less confident that Hurls has hit the age barrier - seems to be more about injuries with him than purely being cooked.
Click to expand...
Well the very first game of the season he was given a bath by a debutant which should've cost us the game if freo hadn't missed so many easy shots late in the game. His kicking isnt what it was and his decision making has looked pretty average at times. He did play some good footy and i still think he'll see out his contract 21/22, but his and Hookers body due to injury/old age/wear and tear are a long way from their prime. They're both in the twilight. Stewart could have a solid 4 years in defence which gives time for Reid and Brand to develop.
 
Bjchan13 said:
If we're going to play Stewart back id prefer to see him settle there permanently. He has looked very good there before and a consistent season in defence could be huge for us. We really have been lacking there for a while since Hurley/Hooker have been struggling for a couple of years, Ambrose is always injured and BZT has looked average when he's come in. He's still 26 so should have a good few years in him while Reid and Brand develop.
Click to expand...

Dude it’s Essendon. We’ll play him in a million different positions and he’ll never settle in any.
 
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