Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[Frank Gallagher]

Buckley wouldn't say that IMO, especially to Ben who's been so unlucky with injury, total bullshit IMO.

 

[westozpie]

Doesn't looked so cooked now does he?

What? playing average games finally into his 4th year at 700k per year, please. Treloar gets around that and he finishes 4th in the brownlow and some reckon he's rubbish, but you still bleat about Thomas wowee. The way some carry on here about our players on match day, you (if you are part of the crazy comments) would be doing backflips with what Thomas has produced so far at Carlton.
Maybe a better sample size than half a dozen ok games before you make Thomas your pin up model for Micks great players producing on and on

 

[Adz]

What? playing average games finally into his 4th year at 700k per year, please. Treloar gets around that and he finishes 4th in the brownlow and some reckon he's rubbish, but you still bleat about Thomas wowee. The way some carry on here about our players on match day, you (if you are part of the crazy comments) would be doing backflips with what Thomas has produced so far at Carlton.
Maybe a better sample size than half a dozen ok games before you make Thomas your pin up model for Micks great players producing on and on

He finished 4th in the Brownlow?!

 

[Baird]

He finished 4th in the Brownlow?!

Yes

 

[Adz]

Yes

Wow. How the mighty have fallen.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Wow. How the mighty have fallen.

Even with us and witbout the injuries he was always a vastly overrated player for mine, when the opposition started putting a bit of time into him his game fell apart, good player in a champion team but ordinary in a poor one, was a no brainer to let him walk considering the compo.

 

[Taylor]

It would be a great time to take over the Pies, very young key position players, mature bodied but still young mids, zero expectations after the slide and any improvement whether through natural development or coaching plan will be seen as a coaching win.

 

[Anzacday]

For some clarity re the supposed Bucks comment read this post from slugger01

 

[Help My Club]

This is my first post l can write with absolute confidence that what l am writing about will happen. We can even put our homes on it, that Bucks will not be coach next year. The reasons are simple, no finals that now will be, in four consecutive seasons. A continued decline in ladder position each year. The poor quality of the list with exceptions of course. Still no real team progression in game plan or identity, and finally you would feel alot of angst from some club stakeholders/members, board directors, supporters and sponsors if Bucks was reappointed.
The most pivotal things against Bucks is that he dosent have enough credits in the bank to consider, and the club knows that it cannot go into a new season with a coach who will be under imense pressure, x2 this year's pressure, and risk him failing again by not making finals.
With the new coach there will be no media pressure to concern him talking about his sacking nearly every week. A new game plan, a different voice for the players to listen to, different training techniques, changes in player development eg. Scharenberg, could be given more opportunity in a different role, the list goes on.
i am absolutely confident, that the club will be making an announcement in the next 5-6 weeks. Watch this space.

How strong is your mail? Does sound promising but there have been many false dawns before.

I agree. I would think that certain key stakeholders/members/board directors/supporters/sponsors etc would be very restless at the moment.

By the way, for those who think that Westpac was replaced by Holden, think again. Not so. Try the reverse.

 

[cityslick1]

Honestly feel that he is already campaigning for his next job, with the expectation that we will stay where we are and the lynch mob will come knocking. He's being calm, backing himself and his abilities 100%, but knows it's too late to change the overall performance, so is starting to separate himself from the playing style / results.

Player development has certainly let him down, but how much of that is his fault.. either through drafting / trading, or poor coaching / management, and how much is out of his hands..?

It's so hard to tell. We're hardly ever referred to as a well coached side though, despite glimpses of impressive play.

All the players seem back him, so I am still more disappointed with the playing group than I am with him. So many players expected to improve that have been mediocre to bad, along with an unbalanced and sub par list. Too many slow, dumb, poorly skilled players and holes all over the place. Sad times...

 

[DaVe86]

Whether Bucks stays or goes, the club needs to be practical about where it stands right now. We can throw everything at the rest of the season, and we might win 4 and lose 4. Or we could play it smart and put everything into player development.

As sad as the loss was against Hawthorn, we at least take out of the game the fact that De Goey is a bona fide midfielder, and Phillips is developing nicely.

If a few other players cement their spots, then we will be well placed in 2018. Scharenberg is the one that immediately comes to mind. He has only shown a few glimpses, but then again he hasn't had a great run at it. He really needs an extended run at it. I'd love to see Daicos get some exposure.

We also need to find out once and for all about Broomhead and Aish. Broomhead has had an extended run at it now and has been ok but needs to go the next gear...while I almost think it's time to bite the bullet with Aish and give him the same opportunity as Broomhead. I know it is hard to find spots, but we are 5-9, so the existing structure isn't working.


If we are genuinely going to sack Buckley, then the time is now. I don't see the point in dragging it out to the end of the year. The current message from the club is 'don't give up on finals we can still make a run'. That message is the wrong one in my opinion as finals are dead and buried. If we had big names still to come back it might be different, but truth is we are relatively full strength apart from a few more midfielders.

I still genuinely believe we have a good list, but probably just lack a bit of talent up forward.

 

[mike123]

Phillips developing nicely??
He's developing nicely into a turnover merchant.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[westozpie]

He finished 4th in the Brownlow?!

Treloar did, yes

 

[westozpie]

Even with us and witbout the injuries he was always a vastly overrated player for mine, when the opposition started putting a bit of time into him his game fell apart, good player in a champion team but ordinary in a poor one, was a no brainer to let him walk considering the compo.

Agree, good player only way overated

 

[doodles98]

mate.. I don't understand how the hell hes still there. I nod my head 50 times a day thinking about it. Its ludicrous.. or perhaps I am. I think I need help.

So reading between the lines, you are not a fan of Bucks then? Stay calm and think of Mykonos Gimpy. A rampant couple of weeks holiday in Mykonos will relieve your tensions and sort you out.

 

[doodles98]

If this is true, it shows he does not know how to manage our better players.

He needs to go.

As key defenders this year, I'd have Goldsack and Dunn ahead of Reid too. Reid has been average and he is one of our most experienced, senior and highly rated players. At times he's looked to be going through the motions to me. I can understand a coach wanting to give a player a rocket in this circumstance.... In fact I think there should be a bit more of it. Reid's star has been on the wane for a fair while now... Can't blame the coach for trying something to see if it can be turned around.

 

[Scodog10]

Honestly feel that he is already campaigning for his next job, with the expectation that we will stay where we are and the lynch mob will come knocking. He's being calm, backing himself and his abilities 100%, but knows it's too late to change the overall performance, so is starting to separate himself from the playing style / results.

Player development has certainly let him down, but how much of that is his fault.. either through drafting / trading, or poor coaching / management, and how much is out of his hands..?

It's so hard to tell. We're hardly ever referred to as a well coached side though, despite glimpses of impressive play.

All the players seem back him, so I am still more disappointed with the playing group than I am with him. So many players expected to improve that have been mediocre to bad, along with an unbalanced and sub par list. Too many slow, dumb, poorly skilled players and holes all over the place. Sad times...

I think you make some great points, but I'd specifically like to highlight one.

To the bolded question I'd ask do you think the executive would deny a request from Buckley if he asked us to better invest in this area? IMO, the answer has to be no because they've done everything to support him over the years aside from the footy manager merry go round.

From that if it's as obvious as it seems to most on here that it's an area in which we struggle why have he and each of the general managers of footy we've had done nothing to rectify it? There's two angles we can take to answer it. Either they don't know how to improve that area or they don't acknowledge that it's an issue. Both scenarios are equally damning.

If you were given the role for one day what would you attempt to fix? I'd highlight four key areas 1. High Performance 2. Development 3. List management and 4. Game day Structure. All four have regressed whilst Buckley has been our senior coach. He obviously can't solve any of those areas by himself, but he's been the one constant (along with Harvey) in our FD over that time and he can influence them. As yet that influence has yielded only mediocrity.

One further point just to reflect on the direction of the club over the past 5-6 year period. Can anyone say with absolute certainty that they believe we'll address our KPF issues at the pointy end of this draft? Again if I were in charge I would be saying I don't care how we do it, but we have to position ourselves to bring in a viable KPF to work in tandem with Moore. I just don't have any faith in the people in charge doing that. Whereas I am confident that new voices would see the need.

 

[JollyBallsUp]

It would be a great time to take over the Pies, very young key position players, mature bodied but still young mids, zero expectations after the slide and any improvement whether through natural development or coaching plan will be seen as a coaching win.

Totally agree with you. It should make looking for a new coach much easier and with a couple of tweaks in the game plan success is just around the corner.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

SEN poll (not scientific by any means) running at 55% to 45% for those wanting Bucks reappointed

 

[PieBeast]

If I wasn't a Pies man I'd want Buckley reappointed too.

 

[Run n Spread]

Whether Bucks stays or goes, the club needs to be practical about where it stands right now. We can throw everything at the rest of the season, and we might win 4 and lose 4. Or we could play it smart and put everything into player development.

As sad as the loss was against Hawthorn, we at least take out of the game the fact that De Goey is a bona fide midfielder, and Phillips is developing nicely.

If a few other players cement their spots, then we will be well placed in 2018. Scharenberg is the one that immediately comes to mind. He has only shown a few glimpses, but then again he hasn't had a great run at it. He really needs an extended run at it. I'd love to see Daicos get some exposure.

We also need to find out once and for all about Broomhead and Aish. Broomhead has had an extended run at it now and has been ok but needs to go the next gear...while I almost think it's time to bite the bullet with Aish and give him the same opportunity as Broomhead. I know it is hard to find spots, but we are 5-9, so the existing structure isn't working.


If we are genuinely going to sack Buckley, then the time is now. I don't see the point in dragging it out to the end of the year. The current message from the club is 'don't give up on finals we can still make a run'. That message is the wrong one in my opinion as finals are dead and buried. If we had big names still to come back it might be different, but truth is we are relatively full strength apart from a few more midfielders.

I still genuinely believe we have a good list, but probably just lack a bit of talent up forward.

All depends thou. Bucks is still going the Mathematical Possibility approach.

When we could go In Daicos, Aish, Kirby, Sier et al put Treloar, Wells, Moore on ice give Pendles a rest if needed. (Reid needs to keep playing as much as possible as he is perinally injured. That way win great, lose its Pick 3 and an easy 2018 draw which has worked well for Richmond (early season confidence has them flying) and St Kilda (not that good just beaten weak sides).

 

[ksardog]

SEN poll (not scientific by any means) running at 55% to 45% for those wanting Bucks reappointed

Lets run a poll on big footy and lets see how he goes. Actuall Collingwood supporters voting

 

[DaVe86]

All depends thou. Bucks is still going the Mathematical Possibility approach.

When we could go In Daicos, Aish, Kirby, Sier et al put Treloar, Wells, Moore on ice give Pendles a rest if needed. (Reid needs to keep playing as much as possible as he is perinally injured. That way win great, lose its Pick 3 and an easy 2018 draw which has worked well for Richmond (early season confidence has them flying) and St Kilda (not that good just beaten weak sides).

This is the issue. I don't care about the mathematical probability. The fact is the club needs to make a proper assessment of where it is at. This year is gone.

The players you mentioned resting are prime examples. Treloar hasn't been training properly and is clearly hampered with a groin. Moore has already shouldered enough of the load, while this year has just been a write off for Wells after his poor off-season.

It seems the more practical approach, but it's hard to see us going down that path right now as we are still going down the 'mathematical possibility' approach.

 

[Scodog10]

SEN poll (not scientific by any means) running at 55% to 45% for those wanting Bucks reappointed

Did you ponder that a chunk of the people that voted are not Collingwood supporters and want him to remain in the role because they think he's doing a "great" job?

 

[Scodog10]

This is the issue. I don't care about the mathematical probability. The fact is the club needs to make a proper assessment of where it is at. This year is gone.

The players you mentioned resting are prime examples. Treloar hasn't been training properly and is clearly hampered with a groin. Moore has already shouldered enough of the load, while this year has just been a write off for Wells after his poor off-season.

It seems the more practical approach, but it's hard to see us going down that path right now as we are still going down the 'mathematical possibility' approach.

I'm ok with the current approach because flipping the switch into development mode now without clarity on Buckley's tenure could lead to "we decided on this new direction and want Buckley at the helm" type statements from the board. It's exactly what they did following the blowback of trading out premiership players. They said they endorsed dismantling the 2010 premiership team. Whether it was the right or wrong move I'm not going into more just wanting to highlight that they have form.

Personally we're pretty poor as is at 5-9 and with the run home we have I think 3-wins would be about where we're at. That won't push outside the bottom 6, IMO, so I'm happy for the club to stay the course.

Also what actions will we take that are going to change the direction much anyway? Bring in Shaz, Aish and Broomhead for extended runs? When fit the latter two have played close to every game and Shaz is likely to return this week. In reality none of the really raw kids is beating the door down either, the one that got close was Brown, and he was nowhere near ready.

The only "eye on the future" move that appears pressing is getting Treloar right. Aside from that the status quo is fine because it's exposing Buckley's failings with a healthy list!