Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[Frogs]

All the players seem back him...

Do they??

Are the players happy?

 

[wicksy]

Do they??

Are the players happy?

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/magpies-de-goey-craves-afl-consistency-ng-s-1744243

De Goey thanked Buckley for the support he received from his coach during the controversy.
"He's been massive, he's been supporting me the whole way through," De Goey said of Buckley.
"Personally, he's been the best coach I've had."

 

[frizzle]

Did you ponder that a chunk of the people that voted are not Collingwood supporters and want him to remain in the role because they think he's doing a "great" job?

We would have fallen over ourselves a couple of years ago to have Mick reappointed at the Blues.
This vote is along the same lines I reckon. Many enjoying us being down & hope we stay there.

 

[Scodog10]

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/magpies-de-goey-craves-afl-consistency-ng-s-1744243

Jordan you're 20 of course he's the best coach you've ever had!

We would have fallen over ourselves a couple of years ago to have Mick reappointed at the Blues.
This vote is along the same lines I reckon. Many enjoying us being down & hope we stay there.

Of course. The refusal of some to acknowledge this sort of critical thinking is lost on me.

 

[F_therest]

Do they??

Are the players happy?

Watching from afar i think they do...you can say many things about the way Collingwood are playing but imo 'lack of heart' isn't one of them.

From what i've seen, the players appear to be putting in a lot of effort and and trying hard, but lose more because of lack of skills and organisation.
I think most keen observers would say Collingwood don't appear to be a well drilled, structured side that have an 'identity' in terms of playing style...which is a blight on the coach. Most of the good plays/wins come from star players having big games and risks with the ball coming off enough in a game to win.

I see alot of posters blame the players for poor skills and while that might be applicable to some players, when even your better players start making basic skill errors then you know it's the coaching more than them...hitting targets becomes a lot easier when the team is organised so that players up the ground know where to lead to in order to create space, and the ball carrier basically already knows where he's going to kick the ball the second he gets it since it's in the gameplan that a teammate will push into that area to receive the kick...if there is no structure then everything is sort of made up on the run and of course things get messy, even what appears to be a simple kick becomes difficult.

 

[Chameleon75]

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/magpies-de-goey-craves-afl-consistency-ng-s-1744243

So bucks is better than his junior footy coaches. Well I would bloody well hope so!

 

[HFF]

Lol at everyone pointing to comments from the players supporting him.

JDG "he's the best coach I've ever had".
Lol mate he's the only coach you've had.
Seriously.

I can't get my head around the bullshit that we are dealing with "Nathan Buckley" this high almighty god we cannot discredit or do anything to upset and tarnish.

It's ridiculous that we're running our club in this manner. It's pure selfishness from those within and the coach himself because his ego is blinding him from the truth that he is causing us more damage than he is doing good.

The graph doesn't lie.
We are on track to have another season whereby our wins are lower than the previous season.
That's 4 consecutive seasons of the graph in decline with no sign of improvement trend.

By the time the season is over his winning percentage could be under 50% and it would be already if he didn't inherit a premiership side in his first two seasons where he maxed out wins.

 

[F_therest]

Lol at everyone pointing to comments from the players supporting him.

JDG "he's the best coach I've ever had".
Lol mate he's the only coach you've had.
Seriously.

I can't get my head around the bullshit that we are dealing with "Nathan Buckley" this high almighty god we cannot discredit or do anything to upset and tarnish.

It's ridiculous that we're running our club in this manner. It's pure selfishness from those within and the coach himself because his ego is blinding him from the truth that he is causing us more damage than he is doing good.

The graph doesn't lie.
We are on track to have another season whereby our wins are lower than the previous season.
That's 4 consecutive seasons of the graph in decline with no sign of improvement trend.

By the time the season is over his winning percentage could be under 50% and it would be already if he didn't inherit a premiership side in his first two seasons where he maxed out wins.

To be fair on the Buckley being selfish side of things, he was the one himself who said the expectation is to play finals and that basically he wouldn't have a job if he didn't get them there...so Bucks as always is demanding high standards (he just can't coach). His comments indicated he would probably step aside at the end of the year voluntarily if Collingwood missed finals again.

Then IIRC it was Eddie who came out and kind of quashed that kind of talk when questioned by media about Buckley's comments that it was finals or bust.
Understand Eddie not wanting such a black and white statement out there due to the media speculation it would cause throughout the year, but maybe also showed his lack of accountability and possibly self preservation since he'd know he'll come under scrutiny if Buckley gets sacked.

 

[CFC2010]

To be fair on the Buckley being selfish side of things, he was the one himself who said the expectation is to play finals and that basically he wouldn't have a job if he didn't get them there...so Bucks as always is demanding high standards (he just can't coach). His comments indicated he would probably step aside at the end of the year voluntarily if Collingwood missed finals again.

Then IIRC it was Eddie who came out and kind of quashed that kind of talk when questioned by media about Buckley's comments that it was finals or bust.
Understand Eddie not wanting such a black and white statement out there due to the media speculation it would cause throughout the year, but maybe also showed his lack of accountability and possibly self preservation since he'd know he'll come under scrutiny if Buckley gets sacked.

So what you're saying is that Eddie is selfish? Thanks for your input into our Clubs modes operandi.......Farktherest LOL.
Carlton people giving us advise now......Farkme!

Watch this space.........The 2018 Buckley Mega thread.........at a cinema near you........

 

[Carringbush2010]

Treloar gets around that and he finishes 4th in the brownlow and some reckon he's rubbish, but you still bleat about Thomas wowee

Firstly I've never "bleated" about dale thomas, never said he has consistently been good but you can't argue he looks cooked.

I'll kindly ask that please don't put words in my mouth, as for Treloar I think he's a great player one of our few trade successes and I've never compared the 2 as you seem to be saying I am. Stop doing that please

 

[No SPIN]

Lol at everyone pointing to comments from the players supporting him.

JDG "he's the best coach I've ever had".
Lol mate he's the only coach you've had.
Seriously.

Lets not get carried away - Buckley is on the way out.

To now bag a kid because he genuinely likes his coach is very poor form.
Unless you actually feel JDG is a leader of a "Keep Bucks" movement there is no need to go after him.

He's entitled to his opinion - he could have chosen to avoid the question and be less effusive in his praise, but chose not too.

Bucks is the best coach he's had todate, and maybe the best coach he ever has - so why does it matter?
Certainly its not a reason to go after the JDG.

Frankly, with all the kid has gone through this year, its very reassuring that he still regards Buckley so highly. And shows that Bucks may have redeeming qualities unrelated to win/loss, that are essential in mentoring young men.

 

[jackcass]

All depends thou. Bucks is still going the Mathematical Possibility approach.

When we could go In Daicos, Aish, Kirby, Sier et al put Treloar, Wells, Moore on ice give Pendles a rest if needed. (Reid needs to keep playing as much as possible as he is perinally injured. That way win great, lose its Pick 3 and an easy 2018 draw which has worked well for Richmond (early season confidence has them flying) and St Kilda (not that good just beaten weak sides).

I'm still desperately clinging to it, would be disappointed if the club weren't.

 

[jackcass]

Lets run a poll on big footy and lets see how he goes. Actual Collingwood supporters voting

Really?

Assumes that all posters who claim to be Collingwood supporters are actually Collingwood supporters. I have my doubts on a few. It's also a forum open to posters from the other team threads so hardly definitive.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Unless the club moves heaven and earth to recruit an established key forward and back, excluding Reid and Tippett ,there's no use in extending Bucks' contract, if that is what the club is thinking of doing.
Bucketing water out of a leaky boat doesn't serve a purpose other than keeping the boat partially submerged. Getting both a forward and a back is a monumental task that I don't think the club is capable of.

 

[jdpie]

I think you make some great points, but I'd specifically like to highlight one.

To the bolded question I'd ask do you think the executive would deny a request from Buckley if he asked us to better invest in this area? IMO, the answer has to be no because they've done everything to support him over the years aside from the footy manager merry go round.

From that if it's as obvious as it seems to most on here that it's an area in which we struggle why have he and each of the general managers of footy we've had done nothing to rectify it? There's two angles we can take to answer it. Either they don't know how to improve that area or they don't acknowledge that it's an issue. Both scenarios are equally damning.

If you were given the role for one day what would you attempt to fix? I'd highlight four key areas 1. High Performance 2. Development 3. List management and 4. Game day Structure. All four have regressed whilst Buckley has been our senior coach. He obviously can't solve any of those areas by himself, but he's been the one constant (along with Harvey) in our FD over that time and he can influence them. As yet that influence has yielded only mediocrity.

One further point just to reflect on the direction of the club over the past 5-6 year period. Can anyone say with absolute certainty that they believe we'll address our KPF issues at the pointy end of this draft? Again if I were in charge I would be saying I don't care how we do it, but we have to position ourselves to bring in a viable KPF to work in tandem with Moore. I just don't have any faith in the people in charge doing that. Whereas I am confident that new voices would see the need.

Have they really Sco ?? I am far from a Bucks apologist but i would suggest that the Footy Manager merry go round (and constant public pronouncements of imminent greatness from our "esteemed" CEO irrespective of the view of the coach and footy manager) is the singular contrary position to support. The last straw for me was the appointment of Gubby and the farcical, disingenuous statement from Pres and CEO that he was there to oversee AFLW and Netball. Not only was this an insult to us as members and supporters can you imagine how this was taken by the incumbent football department (at the time). No senior manager (in this case Bucks) can feel comfortable in tenure when the CEO and board are playing politic. This lack of sincerity would absolutely have a detrimental impact on the harmony of the football department and playing group. It is inherent in people to feel uncomfortable and cynical when you have a narrative of "bull dust" from on high. No wonder our last trade period was an unmitigated disaster. On top of this the CEO has been publicly fine in allowing a hobbled coach and list manager take responsibility (tacitly) for the Mayne fiasco. Surely by now a PR spin doctor could have educated our dear hierarchy that a "mea culpa" (my fault) would be well regarded by the masses.
Sorry i have taken a left hand turn and digressed. Back on track , Bucks aint great but i am certain that he is the least of our current problems at the club. At least i can believe his passion and love for the joint is not clouded by suspect commercial opportunism and egomaniacal narcism.
Maybe, just maybe if we got rid of the CEO, had some new blood (not Ed anointed) on the board, a full clean out of the assistants and kept Geoff Walsh there is hope for Bucks. He is not that far away from a personal epiphany and it would be a shame if that occurred at another club whilst we flounder under the current hierarchy for the term of their tenure.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

We would have fallen over ourselves a couple of years ago to have Mick reappointed at the Blues.
This vote is along the same lines I reckon. Many enjoying us being down & hope we stay there.

Back then, I didn't give a rat's arse what MM or Carlton did. I still don't. The plight of other clubs is normally pretty low on my radar. Was happy for the Dogs to win the flag last year. That lasted about a week or so and then I went back to not giving a **** whether they survive or go broke. I'm shitty with myself for that week or so of weakness.

 

[magpies2013]

My 1st choice would be Dew and then Solomon.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If I was in line for the job (or if I was Bucks in line for keeping it) I'd want to know if Gubby Allen was coming back before deciding.

 

[Scodog10]

Have they really Sco ?? I am far from a Bucks apologist but i would suggest that the Footy Manager merry go round (and constant public pronouncements of imminent greatness from our "esteemed" CEO irrespective of the view of the coach and footy manager) is the singular contrary position to support. The last straw for me was the appointment of Gubby and the farcical, disingenuous statement from Pres and CEO that he was there to oversee AFLW and Netball. Not only was this an insult to us as members and supporters can you imagine how this was taken by the incumbent football department (at the time). No senior manager (in this case Bucks) can feel comfortable in tenure when the CEO and board are playing politic. This lack of sincerity would absolutely have a detrimental impact on the harmony of the football department and playing group. It is inherent in people to feel uncomfortable and cynical when you have a narrative of "bull dust" from on high. No wonder our last trade period was an unmitigated disaster. On top of this the CEO has been publicly fine in allowing a hobbled coach and list manager take responsibility (tacitly) for the Mayne fiasco. Surely by now a PR spin doctor could have educated our dear hierarchy that a "mea culpa" (my fault) would be well regarded by the masses.
Sorry i have taken a left hand turn and digressed. Back on track , Bucks aint great but i am certain that he is the least of our current problems at the club. At least i can believe his passion and love for the joint is not clouded by suspect commercial opportunism and egomaniacal narcism.
Maybe, just maybe if we got rid of the CEO, had some new blood (not Ed anointed) on the board, a full clean out of the assistants and kept Geoff Walsh there is hope for Bucks. He is not that far away from a personal epiphany and it would be a shame if that occurred at another club whilst we flounder under the current hierarchy for the term of their tenure.

Yes, IMO. They provided him an undeserved contract last year, brought in his best mate as a coach, Brough Balmey to protect him as a Buckley man, McGuire tried to water down Buckley's "finals or bust" comments and they've defended him at every turn in regards to re-shaping the list. What else could they have done in that respect? What resources do you think he's been denied that other clubs have access to?

Eade left by his own volition, ditto Walsh and Gubby would still be there if not for the suspension. At every step they've had opportunities to fix the areas I've highlighted yet they remain problem areas! Why didn't Balme step in to fix things during his 18 months at the club?

Let's get real in terms of public comments from the CEO. Prime Minister aside Buckley's role is the most pressurised in Australia so he cops it regardless of Pert gobbing off. If he's not capable of handling that pressure anyway he isn't the man I want in charge of the club because the greats deal with it and get the job done.

That's not to defend Pert either because he needs to go, but the board have done everything in their power to provide Buckley the tools to succeed. At some point he needs to take on ownership of our continued failings and that time has come now that we can't make the finals, IMO.

 

[jdpie]

Yes, IMO. They provided him an undeserved contract last year, brought in his best mate as a coach, Balmey's a Buckley man, McGuire tried to water down Buckley's "finals or bust" comments and they've defended him at every turn in regards to re-shaping the list. What else could they have done in that respect? What resources do you think he's been denied that other clubs have access to?

Eade left by his own volition, ditto Walsh and Gubby would still be there if not for the suspension. At every step along the way they've had opportunities to fix the areas I've highlighted yet they remain problem areas! Why didn't Balme step in to fix things during his 18 months at the club?

Let's get real in terms of public comments from the CEO. Prime Minister aside Buckley's role is the most pressurised in Australia so he cops it regardless of Pert gobbing off. That's not to defend Pert because he needs to go too, but the board have done everything in their power to provide Buckley the tools to succeed.

I think the "resources" discussion is over stated although i am aware there is someone in there (so to speak) at the moment helping Bucks deal with his interaction with people (and his understanding of the perception he creates of himself). The resources are pointless if they are ineffective (and or incompetent). What are the expectations being placed on him by his employer ? Are they correlating to his short term understanding of where the list is at ? I think there is a gulf between what he thinks privately in this regard and the comments of the CEO.
His game day coaching is rubbish and stilted but i actually think that applies to a vast majority of the current mob (they have forfeited gut instinct for data and process - most clubs supporters at some point this year have lamented a lack of in game change from their coaching panel). I actually believe, from what i am informed, that his wholistic coaching / people management skills are improving. The players are either sincere in their support or gaining additional training as actors on their off days (better than playing playstation i guess).
I actually think the thing that needs to be recognised and embraced, prior to any decision on the coaching fiasco, by the club is a single direction. A single philosophy that is tangible and attainable. We appear totally rudderless on so many fronts.

Lets not forget that Walsh took off originally as a result of Pert sticking his over sized melon into footy affairs and this has worsened over time rather than improved. The money to get him back must have been astounding. Fish rots from the head down. What is the point of a new coach if up the line is broke ?

 

[Scodog10]

I think the "resources" discussion is over stated although i am aware there is someone in there (so to speak) at the moment helping Bucks deal with his interaction with people (and his understanding of the perception he creates of himself). The resources are pointless if they are ineffective (and or incompetent). What are the expectations being placed on him by his employer ? Are they correlating to his short term understanding of where the list is at ? I think there is a gulf between what he thinks privately in this regard and the comments of the CEO.
His game day coaching is rubbish and stilted but i actually think that applies to a vast majority of the current mob (they have forfeited gut instinct for data and process - most clubs supporters at some point this year have lamented a lack of in game change from their coaching panel). I actually believe, from what i am informed, that his wholistic coaching / people management skills are improving. The players are either sincere in their support or gaining additional training as actors on their off days (better than playing playstation i guess).
I actually think the thing that needs to be recognised and embraced, prior to any decision on the coaching fiasco, by the club is a single direction. A single philosophy that is tangible and attainable. We appear totally rudderless on so many fronts.

Lets not forget that Walsh took off originally as a result of Pert sticking his over sized melon into footy affairs and this has worsened over time rather than improved. The money to get him back must have been astounding. Fish rots from the head down. What is the point of a new coach if up the line is broke ?

That further enforces my point that they're doing everything they can to support him! There was Hendy in there mentoring him before this unnamed person too! At what point do we say enough of the hand holding? He's had 6 ****ing years to work on his people skills. Name another role where someone would be given that long to fix such a crucial area? I mean nurturing and developing people is the most important trait a coach needs and Buckley still needs work on it... I just don't get it.

Also you admit his gameday coaching is rubbish yet here we are discussing his future?

In regards to the bolded to repeat I'm strongly anti Pert. The only high ranking football employee that I would deem safe currently is Walsh.

Largely though the discussion has done little to convince me that he's lacked any type of support he needed to succeed. If anything it's re-affirmed my POV given you provided further evidence of the support he's received!

 

[Maggie5]

Jordan you're 20 of course he's the best coach you've ever had!

At the age of 12 I knew which was the best teacher I ever had. What has his age got to do with it?

 

[ppoiter]

One further point just to reflect on the direction of the club over the past 5-6 year period. Can anyone say with absolute certainty that they believe we'll address our KPF issues at the pointy end of this draft? Again if I were in charge I would be saying I don't care how we do it, but we have to position ourselves to bring in a viable KPF to work in tandem with Moore. I just don't have any faith in the people in charge doing that. Whereas I am confident that new voices would see the need.

Ive edited your last post down to the last paragraph. To not pick up a key forward with our first pick would be an extraordinary dereliction of duty and if they don't then things must be even worse than they look. So yes I would be quite confident that they will address this area, particularly if Snoop and Knightmare's reports of the quality talls in the top 10 are correct. Pitchforks out if they don't.

The counter argument could be that we needed someone like Peter Wright in 2014 but picked up de Goey instead, but at that time they probably would have been of the view that we were covered in this area with Cloke, White and Gault. As wrong as that turned out to be, its hard to even think of an argument for our KPF stocks being sufficient now, unless they make the assessment that with the way the game is being played, teams only need a single key forward. God help us if they see it that way.

 

[ppoiter]

At the age of 12 I knew which was the best teacher I ever had. What has his age got to do with it?

I think his point was that it shouldn't be a big deal that his best coach to date is his only AFL coach.

 

[jscan]

As a player who would want to put their six figure salaries in jeopardy by coming out and saying "Our coach is hopeless, we need new leadership", no player is going to put their future in jeopardy by telling the truth.

If you was earning $500k Chris Mayne salary, you wouldn't want to speak out. You just rock up, do the bare minimum and collect your cheque.