Opinion The greatest trade in history?

[Punts]

I don't think he is at all ... again, look at Voss/Fevola at Brisbane ... I'm not comparing Franklin to Fevola but I AM comparing the ongoing depth issue ... I am trying to be optimistic about this deal but I keep going back to the argument that Franklin's best is already behind him. He was NOT the star factor at Hawthorn this season that so many on the Sydney board seem to believe.

To be honest, my thoughts over the past two weeks have been that the Swans (and the AFL) might have jumped the shark on the Franklin deal ...

They played him way up the ground this year and used him as decoy getting used to life without him and when he did play deep he kicked a few bags against Pies , Ess , Eagles that's where he hurts Teams the most when he plays deep ala 580 goals and even if he cant mark over his head he still brings the ball to ground and then there is no KPD in the comp that can compete with his Strength , Height and Speed , the best is no where near behind at 26 and if a 60 goal year in 2013 playing a different role up the ground is a shit year well stuff me, he will dominate the SCG , fresh start new Club new Team mates and has a point to prove , it will kick start his career once again. As for Fev he wasn't the only player they brang in that year and didn't make it ala Amon , Clarke and the Clubs are totally different in what they expect from players in the terms of training hard etc , Fev was an of field disgrace that's why they got rid of him

 

[disgruntled goat]

They played him way up the ground this year and used him as decoy getting used to life without him and when he did play deep he kicked a few bags against Pies , Ess , Eagles that's where he hurts Teams the most when he plays deep ala 580 goals and even if he cant mark over his head he still brings the ball to ground and then there is no KPD in the comp that can compete with his Strength , Height and Speed , the best is no where near behind at 26 and if a 60 goal year in 2013 playing a different role up the ground is a shit year well stuff me, he will dominate the SCG , fresh start new Club new Team mates and has a point to prove , it will kick start his career once again. As for Fev he wasn't the only player they brang in that year and didn't make it ala Amon , Clarke and the Clubs are totally different in what they expect from players in the terms of training hard etc , Fev was an of field disgrace that's why they got rid of him

All very well to say that now ... time will tell. When it comes to speculation, anyone can sound like a genius.

 

[disgruntled goat]

They played him way up the ground this year and used him as decoy getting used to life without him and when he did play deep he kicked a few bags against Pies , Ess , Eagles that's where he hurts Teams the most when he plays deep ala 580 goals and even if he cant mark over his head he still brings the ball to ground and then there is no KPD in the comp that can compete with his Strength , Height and Speed , the best is no where near behind at 26 and if a 60 goal year in 2013 playing a different role up the ground is a shit year well stuff me, he will dominate the SCG , fresh start new Club new Team mates and has a point to prove , it will kick start his career once again. As for Fev he wasn't the only player they brang in that year and didn't make it ala Amon , Clarke and the Clubs are totally different in what they expect from players in the terms of training hard etc , Fev was an of field disgrace that's why they got rid of him

We've been set up to be the laughing stock by a decision that smacks of 1993, when publicity and crowd numbers were more important than on-field results. If we don't win the flag we'll be seen as losers, and that's a lot to put on one player ... okay, two if we include Tippett. I can't deny I do not like what the club's done, chasing Franklin for his name/reputation as much as anything else ... and we're already seeing the ripple effect on other players' contracts. Like everyone on this board, I hope like hell this pays off with a handful of flags in the next five years or so ... I don't care what non-Swans fans think of us and it will be a pleasure to laugh all the way to the premiership bank several times in the coming seasons ... but we did NOT need another Tony Lockett-type signing, the club was really well placed without Franklin ...

 

[Count Dooku]

We've been set up to be the laughing stock by a decision that smacks of 1993, when publicity and crowd numbers were more important than on-field results. If we don't win the flag we'll be seen as losers, and that's a lot to put on one player ... okay, two if we include Tippett. I can't deny I do not like what the club's done, chasing Franklin for his name/reputation as much as anything else ... and we're already seeing the ripple effect on other players' contracts. Like everyone on this board, I hope like hell this pays off with a handful of flags in the next five years or so ... I don't care what non-Swans fans think of us and it will be a pleasure to laugh all the way to the premiership bank several times in the coming seasons ... but we did NOT need another Tony Lockett-type signing, the club was really well placed without Franklin ...

Franklin plus 2 second round picks for Mumford and White........how are we worse off in a football sense? Z

 

[Punts]

We've been set up to be the laughing stock by a decision that smacks of 1993, when publicity and crowd numbers were more important than on-field results. If we don't win the flag we'll be seen as losers, and that's a lot to put on one player ... okay, two if we include Tippett. I can't deny I do not like what the club's done, chasing Franklin for his name/reputation as much as anything else ... and we're already seeing the ripple effect on other players' contracts. Like everyone on this board, I hope like hell this pays off with a handful of flags in the next five years or so ... I don't care what non-Swans fans think of us and it will be a pleasure to laugh all the way to the premiership bank several times in the coming seasons ... but we did NOT need another Tony Lockett-type signing, the club was really well placed without Franklin ...

A player like Buddy doesn't come around very often if at all ,and with what he can do on and off the field ,u got to remember he approached us and we where never chasing him and if a player like Buddy was to approach any other club I think they would do all they could to get him in the door.

 

[disgruntled goat]

Franklin plus 2 second round picks for Mumford and White........how are we worse off in a football sense? Z

Mate, you can talk it up all you like ... as I said earlier, wild speculation now is fine, we're gonna win 10 straight flags ... it means nothing until they gegt on the field next year.

 

[disgruntled goat]

A player like Buddy doesn't come around very often if at all ,and with what he can do on and off the field ,u got to remember he approached us and we where never chasing him and if a player like Buddy was to approach any other club I think they would do all they could to get him in the door.

I agree with you there, and that's what I fckn hate most about the hypocrisy and whingeing bullsh1t coming from fans of almost every other club AND the fckng Vic media ... certainly nothing like this sort of outcry followed the Judd deal ...

 

[Count Dooku]

Mate, you can talk it up all you like ... as I said earlier, wild speculation now is fine, we're gonna win 10 straight flags ... it means nothing until they gegt on the field next year.

Wild speculation? Want to reconsider that? Success is unknowable I advance, Buddy or no Buddy. All we can do is state that the relative probability of success is greater with Buddy. Be interested in your justification as to why we are so much better with White and Mumford.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Premiership windows don't remain open indefinitely, who cares if Buddy is on a walking frame in the last couple of years of his contract. We make the most of it while he's in his prime and throw everything at winning a premiership. Forget the offield value, he provides enough value on the field to justify his contract, perhaps not 9 years, but like I mentioned above, we can't challenge every year.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

White has never won a game off his own boot, he contributed in 2013, but he was never the difference, I'm not at all fussed that he's been moved on.

Carrying 2 ruckmen in todays game is not the best tactic, hit outs to advantage don't guarantee wins. When you play two ruckmen you rely on one of them to rest forward and stretch the opposition defence. It means they each play 50% ruck 50% forward. Why not get rid of one ruckman, get the other to play 80% in the ruck (where he belongs) and have a superstar forward in the forward line.

Makes perfect sense to me

 

[Tuco]

I think any Swans fan out there who seriously expects Premierships to just happen - Buddy or not - are painfully naive.

Hyperbole aside, Buddy and Tippett were both recruited to address needs the list had. They simply improve our team. That's not debateable.

The fear mongering regarding "depth" is a pretty interesting sideline. But it's also nothing more than a hypothetical concern at this stage. Just because it could happen doesn't mean it will happen.

Hypothetically, when they knocked down the stands at the SCG in the last few years 10k members could have gotten so angry at losing their seats they never came back and the club suffers for a decade. Sure it "could" happen. But chances always suggest that it probably wouldn't.

The club would have had its eyes on the closing window for its top end players for a long time now and we were always going to refresh the list at some stage. This sudden loss of depth is just the shock of the new as familiar faces leave. But let's face it. Nothing about the changes would be either shocking or new to Longmire, Ireland and co. Seems to me we're building up what we already have, moving on what we're no longer desperate for and banking on our experts to find some ten year players this draft.

Oh yeah, and adding Buddy and Tippett.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

My concern with the loss of our depth players is that we're gunning for a flag NOW. The retention of a certain level of depth would be congruent with that aim. The fact that we've lost 4 depth players means we need others who are capable of stepping in and performing that role.

While we've undoubtedly improved our best 22, it's been at the expense of our depth (who would potentially make up part of our "bottom 6" heading into finals). Are we too thin on depth? pretty much comes down to who gets injured I guess.

I personally believe depth is overrated, in the sense that if you don't have close to your best 22 available for finals then you're unlikely to be a genuine chance. We've still got some depth, and quite a few young guys who have shown promise. Comes down to how long out injury list is come finals, and the names on that list. Buddy or not, Mummy/White/Everitt/Lamb or not, a long injury list derails a premiership run very quickly.

 

[Swandwagonner]

I was just adding him to Freo's ruck/forward depth in the conversation.

Apart from injuries I can't see that Freo have a deficiency in the ruck. Freo's deficiency in my opinion is either lack of forwards or alternatively, Ross Lyon. (confirming BF as the place for wild claims and big statements). I do not think that it is prudent to build a game plan around primarily suffocating your opponent through flooding and stifling defence. The best teams find a way to score heavily to complement a defensive strategy.

So Gumby will surely boost their forward line and take a load off Pav. The problem may be that Pav is nearing the end of his playing life. Another 12 week layoff in 2014, and Gumby may have to play as Pav's replacement, and we all know who the better player is.

The point I was making is that Sandilands is wasted in a team that makes slow use of the ball (either to another stoppage, or by moving the ball away from goal). In a team where Sandilands could tap the ball to a Goodes/Judd/Franklin type player, busting out of the middle and banging home a goal, his services would be instrumental to heavy scoring. While Freo have some great ball users, and Fyfe is a very capable player, I do not see them using their ruck strength as destructively as they could be.

 

[Bonz]

If this all blows up in our faces, that's exactly what we might be facing ... a la Brisbane/Voss/Fevola ...

I wouldn't be too angry at our club if this blow's up in our faces though, it's best we chase as many flags as we can whilst we are in our premiership window instead of letting the window just die out,

We have been pretty dam spoilt in the last 17 odd years, when this flag windows closes there isn't a guarantee that our Window will stay open... Look at Richmond for example compared to where they were 20-30 years ago.

That's why I think it's best that we take a risk now and try to get as many flags as we can now because you never know what is around the corner.

 

[Punts]

White has never won a game off his own boot, he contributed in 2013, but he was never the difference, I'm not at all fussed that he's been moved on.

Carrying 2 ruckmen in todays game is not the best tactic, hit outs to advantage don't guarantee wins. When you play two ruckmen you rely on one of them to rest forward and stretch the opposition defence. It means they each play 50% ruck 50% forward. Why not get rid of one ruckman, get the other to play 80% in the ruck (where he belongs) and have a superstar forward in the forward line.

Makes perfect sense to me

Totally agree with all of this

 

[disgruntled goat]

Wild speculation? Want to reconsider that? Success is unknowable I advance, Buddy or no Buddy. All we can do is state that the relative probability of success is greater with Buddy. Be interested in your justification as to why we are so much better with White and Mumford.

Because they've actually played well in Sydney sides. Mumford is a Sydney premiership player ... Franklin has yet to play in any Sydney side so it's all wild speculation.

Don't ***ng patronise me ... "want to reconsider that?". No, I ***ng do not ... "relative probability" of footballers is not a science.

 

[Number37]

It is incumbent on the list managers to keep the list moving forward. They can either turn over best 22 players or turn over fringe players. Of our best 22 we have a pretty good mix between young and on the up and those coming to the end. We could give up some of our young talent or force the older brigade to retire early. Why would we want to do this to accommodate blokes that have had every opportunity to find a place in the best 22 and have largely failed?

 

[Count Dooku]

Because they've actually played well in Sydney sides. Mumford is a Sydney premiership player ... Franklin has yet to play in any Sydney side so it's all wild speculation.

Don't ****ng patronise me ... "want to reconsider that?". No, I ***ng do not ... "relative probability" of footballers is not a science, but you just keep reaching for the Kleenex.

If foul language and anger was a contributing factor to logical argument you are a winner, but unfortunately...........it is not!

 

[CAS79]

Lads and lady’s for a while the swear filter ignore was tolerated but I think a couple of people have notified that the main advertisers lately have been keeping a very close on this site and have a puritanical bent .. I know, hypocritical for advertisers.

For the sake of chief and his mansions can we please watch the language and not bypass the swear filter, particularly on the two big swear words, if you don’t know what they ask your mum and dad.

 

[disgruntled goat]

If foul language and anger was a contributing factor to logical argument you are a winner, but unfortunately...........it is not!

Your logical argument comprises nothing but speculation about something that at the moment is intangible ... as of this moment Buddy Franklin has done nothing on-field in Sydney colours, positive or negative, but the effect of his signing has had a negative impact on the club. That's the absolute facts right now ... what happens next year and beyond remains to be seen, there's your logical argument.

 

[BarneyBent]

Your logical argument comprises nothing but speculation about something that at the moment is intangible ... as of this moment Buddy Franklin has done nothing on-field in Sydney colours, positive or negative, but the effect of his signing has had a negative impact on the club. That's the absolute facts right now ... what happens next year and beyond remains to be seen, there's your logical argument.

That's a bit silly. List management is always about looking to the future, be it the next year or the next ten. By your definition, every single trade has a negative impact.

 

[db swannie]

Of all the players that have left Mumford's probably the only one considered a definite loss. White, Everitt and Lamb may all still left had Buddy not come, it's impossible to say really.

The fact Mummy went to a side that won't be threatening us for a flag any time soon makes his loss less problematic for me.

One thing I was thinking today is how well the club has kept our midfield together, which they have no doubt been mindful of all year as they assessed the Franklin scenario. If we manage to keep Smith and slot him into the midfield then I will be a happy camper.

I get a little bit more excited every day at the thought of Buddy running out onto the SCG next March in red and white. It's pretty f*****g exciting.

 

[Count Dooku]

Your logical argument comprises nothing but speculation about something that at the moment is intangible ... as of this moment Buddy Franklin has done nothing on-field in Sydney colours, positive or negative, but the effect of his signing has had a negative impact on the club. That's the absolute facts right now ... what happens next year and beyond remains to be seen, there's your logical argument.

More speculation than how your chosen players that wore red and white in 2013 will deliver superior outcomes into the future? I'll Back the club over your small picture thinking any day. If someone presented you a trade Buddy Franklin for White and Mumford you would jump at it. Your argument and tone smacks of someone who deliberately took a contrarian view because that's the "tough guy" image you seek. Good on you for having the persistence to run with it but I have every right to respectfully disagree with your view.

 

[disgruntled goat]

That's a bit silly. List management is always about looking to the future, be it the next year or the next ten. By your definition, every single trade has a negative impact.

Not necessarily, but in this case we KNOW there's been a negative effect, we're losing players we didn't necessarily need to lose SPECIFICALLY because of the Franklin deal ... I'm not sure the club's been prudent in its list management in this one case, as much as I want to have faith in the club's decisions ... and I know in the past generally the club gets it right ...

 

[disgruntled goat]

More speculation than how your chosen players that wore red and white in 2013 will deliver superior outcomes into the future? I'll Back the club over your small picture thinking any day. If someone presented you a trade Buddy Franklin for White and Mumford you would jump at it. Your argument and tone smacks of someone who deliberately took a contrarian view because that's the "tough guy" image you seek. Good on you for having the persistence to run with it but I have every right to respectfully disagree with your view.

"Small picture"??? I think my argument is looking at the bigger picture ... while you're prepared to back the Franklin deal at the expense of anything/anyone else. THAT is the small picture view, like the Voss/Fevola scenario ... I'm looking at where the club might be when Franklin's finished his football, I think that's far more "big picture" ... but let's just agree to revisit this when he's actually played a game, or won a premiership ... meanwhile, you're entitled to stick to your speculation ... and your Kleenex (sorry, Cas, card me, I deserve it and it'll keep me away from some of these excitable schoolkids).