The official Dalziell versus Staker thread.

[BlueandGoldforever]

Seriously, why is this thread still going? Get over it people! Staker wanted to leave, Dalziell wanted to come home. Why not judge this when both players have finished their careers? I know why not, because this is bigfooty.com where rational and logical thought processes don't exist and people get carried away with making over-emotional comments.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Nah like I said last night was not his best game, was just okay, but in many of the games leading up to this he has been very good.

Fair enough - i'll take your appraisal on that - I don't get to see every Brisbane game.

 

[BOND 007]

Seriously, why is this thread still going? Get over it people! Staker wanted to leave, Dalziell wanted to come home. Why not judge this when both players have finished their careers? I know why not, because this is bigfooty.com where rational and logical thought processes don't exist and people get carried away with making over-emotional comments.

Why is this still going ??? Because supporters are jacked off with the way WC are travelling, the way the club is operating and perceived lack of ability at the top to make correct decisions both on and off field. This trade is just one of the shambolic decisions made within the club in the last few years.
There is an old saying that "ye shall reap what ye shall sow". WC must be planting manure because the great majority of what they are harvesting is crap.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Seriously, why is this thread still going? Get over it people! Staker wanted to leave, Dalziell wanted to come home. Why not judge this when both players have finished their careers? I know why not, because this is bigfooty.com where rational and logical thought processes don't exist and people get carried away with making over-emotional comments.

2 things

1. I've got nothing to back this up but I get the imperssion Staker would have stayed here were it not for the fact that he was one of our older players and barely in the 22. I imagine he was told chances were coming to an end for him and he asked for a trade...Basically, I think we caused Staker to leave, rather than him wanting out.

2. People discuss things when they're most fun. In the case of trades, they're usually most interesting not long after they happen. Why aren't people discussing the Andrew Williams trade now? Because we dont care anymore.

 

[Hollow Knight]

1. I've got nothing to back this up but I get the imperssion Staker would have stayed here were it not for the fact that he was one of our older players and barely in the 22. I imagine he was told chances were coming to an end for him and he asked for a trade...Basically, I think we caused Staker to leave, rather than him wanting out.

Yeah I'm not exactly sure on what the dynamic was regarding Staker leaving West Coast but he was interviewed on the Sunday Footy Show a few weeks ago and said something like "I didn't see it coming, but I love it here now in Brisbane".

By "I didn't see it coming" I don't know if he meant West Coast told him that his long career prospects look better elsewhere or whether Brisbane just came out of the blue with an offer he couldn't refuse. Either way, it doesn't sound like he necessarily was unhappy at West Coast.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

2 things

1. I've got nothing to back this up but I get the imperssion Staker would have stayed here were it not for the fact that he was one of our older players and barely in the 22. I imagine he was told chances were coming to an end for him and he asked for a trade...Basically, I think we caused Staker to leave, rather than him wanting out.

2. People discuss things when they're most fun. In the case of trades, they're usually most interesting not long after they happen. Why aren't people discussing the Andrew Williams trade now? Because we dont care anymore.

Staker got offered a 4 year deal by Brisbane. I am sure that had some effect aswell. We don't do 4 year deals for even our best players.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Seriously, why is this thread still going? Get over it people! Staker wanted to leave, Dalziell wanted to come home. Why not judge this when both players have finished their careers? I know why not, because this is bigfooty.com where rational and logical thought processes don't exist and people get carried away with making over-emotional comments.

Because we got r*ped in this trade. We have the worst midfield in the history of our club and in the comp as a whole at the moment by a considerable margin. Hands down the worst. And Dalziell still can't come even close to be a regular/automatic selection. The bloke can't cement a spot in a team that has the worst midfield in the comp. What hope is there for him? He would not be getting a game at any other club in the comp. It was an absolutely dreadful effort from whoever it was at the club that O.K.'ed this deal and is symptomatic of the poor decision making and management that has led us to here.

Just because Staker wanted to leave didn't mean we had to trade him to Brisbane and couldn't have shopped him around. And even if we accepted being locked in to dealing with Brisbane we didn't have to take Dalziell. We could have asked for something else in terms of player/pick or sought a three way trade. We should have gotten something of some value that we actually wanted rather than just take a player that Brisbane was shoving at us because he wasn't good enough to get a game at their club and wanted to come home as a result. We probably would have had a fair chance of getting him for nothing in the PSD if he really wanted to come home because there would not have been too many clubs chasing him.

 

[ziad]

Seriously, why is this thread still going? Get over it people! Staker wanted to leave, Dalziell wanted to come home. Why not judge this when both players have finished their careers? I know why not, because this is bigfooty.com where rational and logical thought processes don't exist and people get carried away with making over-emotional comments.

Far to logical for this forum and the teanage girls I am advised form the predominant demographic.

Staker was flakey and mentally soft. He could not get a game in 09 his form was that poor and wanted another chance. Good luck to him.

I would have paid his fair to Brisbane to ger rid of him. We got a younger hard working player in return who is proving one of our most consistant role players. Staker was good once every 10-15 games. That tells me it is his head that is soft.

PS - he played a key role in losing the 05 GF - could not pick up the ball uncontested with only perceived pressure.

We have done well, Brisbane have done well. Two players have done well.

Looks ok to me.

 

[GO EAGLES]

I mentioned in a previus post that Staker would go well in BRIBANE AS HIS JOINTS WOULD enjoy the humidity and loosen them up.

He needed constant oil for a more consistent season to build his confidence

In Perth it was all about the atmosphere and which ones would oil his joints for the game

 

[BOND 007]

Because we got r*ped in this trade. We have the worst midfield in the history of our club and in the comp as a whole at the moment by a considerable margin. Hands down the worst. And Dalziell still can't come even close to be a regular/automatic selection. The bloke can't cement a spot in a team that has the worst midfield in the comp. What hope is there for him? He would not be getting a game at any other club in the comp. It was an absolutely dreadful effort from whoever it was at the club that O.K.'ed this deal and is symptomatic of the poor decision making and management that has led us to here.

Just because Staker wanted to leave didn't mean we had to trade him to Brisbane and couldn't have shopped him around. And even if we accepted being locked in to dealing with Brisbane we didn't have to take Dalziell. We could have asked for something else in terms of player/pick or sought a three way trade. We should have gotten something of some value that we actually wanted rather than just take a player that Brisbane was shoving at us because he wasn't good enough to get a game at their club and wanted to come home as a result. We probably would have had a fair chance of getting him for nothing in the PSD if he really wanted to come home because there would not have been too many clubs chasing him.

I agree with everything above and will add (for the fun of it)

1) Staker was under contract and Dalziell wasnt (the deal was done like it was the other way around)
2) WC handed over #39 as well because they didnt have a space on their list because they had to pay Stenglein out in 2010. WTF - WC finished 6 last and had one of the worst lists in the comp - yet didnt have enough room in the cap to pay out Stenglein from 2009 money. Can somebody explain that to me ???

All I can say is that brissie must have had a topless Jennifer Hawkins doing their negotiations when WC walked into the room - cause Woodhouse's brain must have turned to mush

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

I agree with everything above and will add (for the fun of it)

1) Staker was under contract and Dalziell wasnt (the deal was done like it was the other way around)
2) WC handed over #39 as well because they didnt have a space on their list because they had to pay Stenglein out in 2010. WTF - WC finished 6 last and had one of the worst lists in the comp - yet didnt have enough room in the cap to pay out Stenglein from 2009 money. Can somebody explain that to me ???

All I can say is that brissie must have had a topless Jennifer Hawkins doing their negotiations when WC walked into the room - cause Woodhouse's brain must have turned to mush

Staker would be a very good chance to finish top 10 in Brisbane's best and fairest, i would have thought. Dalziell will probably end up playing about 10 games for the season and wouldn't play any if it wasn't for injuries or if he had to get picked on the basis of performance and not potential. He will be gone from the AFL within 3 years. There is no place for outside midfielders with disposal as bad as his in the modern game.

Our footy club has gone to s***. Totally incompetent people running the show.

 

[GO EAGLES]

I mentioned in a previus post that Staker would go well in BRIBANE AS HIS JOINTS WOULD enjoy the humidity and loosen them up.

He needed constant oil for a more consistent season to build his confidence

In Perth it was all about the atmosphere and which ones would oil his joints for the game

A I said it is the humidity up there

 

[Goldfish]

Staker got offered a 4 year deal by Brisbane. I am sure that had some effect aswell. We don't do 4 year deals for even our best players.

We did a 5 year deal for Kerr didn't we? That's worked out well so far...

 

[Hollow Knight]

Staker would be a very good chance to finish top 10 in Brisbane's best and fairest, i would have thought.

I have him second only to Rischitelli at this stage. Key players have missed chunks of games which makes our B&F wide open.

 

[strengthwithin]

I agree with everything above and will add (for the fun of it)

1) Staker was under contract and Dalziell wasnt (the deal was done like it was the other way around)
2) WC handed over #39 as well because they didnt have a space on their list because they had to pay Stenglein out in 2010. WTF - WC finished 6 last and had one of the worst lists in the comp - yet didnt have enough room in the cap to pay out Stenglein from 2009 money. Can somebody explain that to me ???

All I can say is that brissie must have had a topless Jennifer Hawkins doing their negotiations when WC walked into the room - cause Woodhouse's brain must have turned to mush

A couple things here:

1. It's common knowledge that West Coast front loaded a lot of the contracts they had after Judd and Cousins left because it allowed them more flexibility in the future to pay the developing youngsters more money when they deserve it. It's actually good management and has nothing to do with overpaying players.

2. Giiving pick #39 is a feel good gesture. We weren't going to use, they had been active in trade week so why not pass it to them. We've done it repeatedly in the past with Sydney and the Bulldogs I believe. By doing this it allows trades in the future to be more beneficial to us. See Hawthorn and Collingwood for example, they were shafting people previously and now nobody wants to deal with them. I can assure you that a deal would have been done if Luke Ball wanted to come to us.

In all honestly though Staker offered a lot more to Brisbane than he offers us. He would not have made us a better team atm so why keep him. Dalziell at least competes for a spot with only 3 people Rosa, Houlihan and probably Embley (didn't include rookies since before the season they can not be picked). Not saying we made the right choice but neither player will be the catalyst for winning a premiership.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Staker got offered a 4 year deal by Brisbane. I am sure that had some effect aswell. We don't do 4 year deals for even our best players.

Where are you getting that from?

Far to logical for this forum and the teanage girls I am advised form the predominant demographic.

Staker was flakey and mentally soft. He could not get a game in 09 his form was that poor and wanted another chance. Good luck to him.

It was a hand injury that kept him out of the team for most of 2009.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Where are you getting that from?

Can't remember where, but there was an article a few months ago where Staker said he was on a 4 year deal.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Can't remember where, but there was an article a few months ago where Staker said he was on a 4 year deal.

Cool. That kinda leads me to believe that someone within the Lions thought they could make something of Staker. Thus far they seem to be correct, too.

 

[weevil]

Cool. That kinda leads me to believe that someone within the Lions thought they could make something of Staker. Thus far they seem to be correct, too.

We took punts on a bunch of our recruits. All with significant risks but also with potential upsides.

 

[BlueandGoldforever]

Staker had been looking at moving from West Coast for sometime. I know for a fact the Sydney Swans offered him a three-year deal at the end of 2008 at a lot more money.

Staker told Worsfold that he wanted to play in the middle before season 2009 and Worsfold basically said he couldn't guarantee it. He was to sign a two-year deal that was put before him at the beginning of the 2009 season and that was that and he did.

Staker wanted to leave and to be honest he was one of the most inconsistent players at the club. I never rated him and am glad he is gone. I can't remember one four-quarter quality effort. Sure, there were good quarters here and there but so what?

There is a good chance that the Brisbane Lions will finish below us on the premiership ladder this year with rumours abound that both Brown and Fevola might not play again now that finals are out of the equation. If that is the case, what have we lost?

We got Dalziell, who in my opinion, is never going to be a great player but can at least play a consistent game. Dalziell will get better as the team gets better. He is one of those type of players.

I would have traded Staker for a bag of chips. He is mentally soft. Good luck to him at Brisbane.

Far better to judge two players at least two years down the line rather than two-thirds through a season where West Coast are playing their worst football in the history of the club.

 

[SwiftforPM]

Staker had been looking at moving from West Coast for sometime. I know for a fact the Sydney Swans offered him a three-year deal at the end of 2008 at a lot more money.

Staker told Worsfold that he wanted to play in the middle before season 2009 and Worsfold basically said he couldn't guarantee it. He was to sign a two-year deal that was put before him at the beginning of the 2009 season and that was that and he did.

Staker wanted to leave and to be honest he was one of the most inconsistent players at the club. I never rated him and am glad he is gone. I can't remember one four-quarter quality effort. Sure, there were good quarters here and there but so what?

There is a good chance that the Brisbane Lions will finish below us on the premiership ladder this year with rumours abound that both Brown and Fevola might not play again now that finals are out of the equation. If that is the case, what have we lost?

We got Dalziell, who in my opinion, is never going to be a great player but can at least play a consistent game. Dalziell will get better as the team gets better. He is one of those type of players.

I would have traded Staker for a bag of chips. He is mentally soft. Good luck to him at Brisbane.

Far better to judge two players at least two years down the line rather than two-thirds through a season where West Coast are playing their worst football in the history of the club.

Brilliantly put! Agree 100%.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Staker had been looking at moving from West Coast for sometime. I know for a fact the Sydney Swans offered him a three-year deal at the end of 2008 at a lot more money.

Now that you mentioned it, the above does ring a bell. There was at least talk of him going to Sydney in 2008.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Im sure Dalziell will be playing great football for Easts in 2012.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Staker had been looking at moving from West Coast for sometime. I know for a fact the Sydney Swans offered him a three-year deal at the end of 2008 at a lot more money.

Staker told Worsfold that he wanted to play in the middle before season 2009 and Worsfold basically said he couldn't guarantee it. He was to sign a two-year deal that was put before him at the beginning of the 2009 season and that was that and he did.

Staker wanted to leave and to be honest he was one of the most inconsistent players at the club. I never rated him and am glad he is gone. I can't remember one four-quarter quality effort. Sure, there were good quarters here and there but so what?

There is a good chance that the Brisbane Lions will finish below us on the premiership ladder this year with rumours abound that both Brown and Fevola might not play again now that finals are out of the equation. If that is the case, what have we lost?

We got Dalziell, who in my opinion, is never going to be a great player but can at least play a consistent game. Dalziell will get better as the team gets better. He is one of those type of players.

I would have traded Staker for a bag of chips. He is mentally soft. Good luck to him at Brisbane.

Far better to judge two players at least two years down the line rather than two-thirds through a season where West Coast are playing their worst football in the history of the club.

I don't know where to begin dissecting this post there is so much crap in it.

Firstly, it doesn't matter what you think of Staker or if you think he is mentally soft and it doesn't matter what the eagles footy dept think of Staker either. Do you know why? Because neither of you were going to be the ones bidding on him. What mattered was what the rest of the comp thought of Staker and as you point out there was more than one club interested in him. In fact i would wager that Staker would walk into the 22 at a number of top 8 sides such as Carlton. Bulldogs and Hawthorn for starters. Staker is a very versatile KP with a a number of attractive attributes such as good disposal and reasonable pace and agility who had had over 5 years and 100 games invested in him by the club. Players like that, even if they are inconsistent, don't grow on trees. Many clubs would have tendered an offer if he had been out on the table for open bidding. The question is not what you think of him and what faults you can find in him, the question is what the market thought of him and what was the best price we could have obtained on the open market and it's obvious that Dalziell is well, well short of being the best offer we would have gotten.

Secondly, Worsfold did agree to play him in the midfield. Thats the whole reason Staker resigned for less money. You have your facts wrong.

Thirdly, if we are going to get rid of every player who has played more than 50 games but hasn't gone on to be a star for nothing then we are going to be throwing away a lot of players. Rosa and Selwood for a start. They are mentally soft, don't play 4 quarters often and don't impact on games as much as we would like them to as senior players. Should we give them away for a bag of chips aswell? What about Masten - nearing 50 games and doesn't play 4 quarters. Should we give him away? We are playing in the age of the draft and the salary cap. Playing and drafting recsources are finite. If you throw away a player you can't just go and get another one. Once players are on your list you have to make the most of them including getting maximum price if you end up trading them, not throw them away for nothing.

Fourthly, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of Brisbane finishing lower than us on the ladder. I have no idea where you are pulling that from. We are favourites for the spoon, mate. A long, long way away from Brisbane. We may well not win another game this year. We are categorically the worst team in the comp at the moment. And even if Brisbane did, by some miracle, finish lower that doesn't make the s***y deal we got for Staker all O.K. and make it so "we haven't lost anything". Where is the logic in that statement - as long as Brisbane finish lower the next season then giving them a quality player for nothing is excusable? Do you know about the concept of opportunity cost? The opportunity cost of what we could have gotten for Staker has nothing to do with where Brisbane finish on the ladder.

Fifthly, the only thing consistent about Dalziell is how crap he is and how bad his disposal is. Consistency is not a good thing when you are being consistently poor or consistently not even good enough to get a game in the weakest midfield in the comp unless there are injuries. And what do you base your assertion that he is "one of those players who will get better"? How do you spot one of those? Every recruiter would love to know if you know the secret. Is it because he is such an average player to start with he couldn't get any worse?

We got r*ped in this trade. We should be asking why and we should also be asking why Michael Voss is getting a higher elevel of performance from Staker in half a season that what Worsfold could in 5-7 years.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Where are you getting that from?



It was a hand injury that kept him out of the team for most of 2009.

It was on footy classified a few weeks ago. I can't remember if it was Hutchy or Caro but they were bagging Voss and saying that his recruiting strategy at the end of last season had failed and backfired. They went through the players one by one and when they discussed Staker they said that Brisbane had given him a 4 year deal to get him up there.