The official Dalziell versus Staker thread.

[Geoffe_Miles]

I agree. We got screwed. And it's not like nobody saw it coming. This trade was never popular on these boards. Even the people defending it could only evert say that it was right to trade Staker. I don't remember anybody ever arguing that Dalziell was a decent player, a good fit for us or adequate compo for Staker.

I see Dalziell as a bellweather player for the future of our club now - if he is still getting game in 2-3 years time that means he is still one of our best 6-8 midfield options which will mean we will still be in the bottom 4.

This is another bad decision Worsfold must take responsibility for. I could forgive him if we were forced into this, ala say the Mitch Morton deal where we had no choice due to PSD threats. But we weren't forced. The club was happy to do this deal. And even accepting that Staker was leaving we didn't even try and look at other options and market him to other clubs or find players commensurate with Staker at other clubs we could have told the Lions to get a 3 way deal done for one of these players if they wanted him. We just took what they offered us.

Another black mark for Worsfold for his poor judgement and foresight and his overly relaxed and under considered decision making processes. Worsfold doesn't think the middle tier player matter. He thinks game outcomes are decided by a clubs best 3-4 players and nothing else matters so he doesn't care about having a solid second tier.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

In the whole trade this is what we got.
Staker + 39 for Dalziell.
Seaby + 55 for pick 22 (Koby Stevens)

39 might of got the deal done but it puts allot of pressure on Koby Stevens to be absolute gun.

Pick 39 could have bought us one of the following.

Justin Bollenhagen - General forward/ midfielder (drafted by Fremantle)
Jesse Crichton - Gun small forward/ midfielder (drafted by Fremantle)
Nathan Vardy - Third senior listed ruck.
Allen Christensen - Quality small forward.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

I know it's not the right thread for this but we're so Docker like right now.

If we're smart we wont swing another trade until we clean out the coaches and development mother****ers, or we'll continue to get burnt.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

I know it's not the right thread for this but we're so Docker like right now.

If we're smart we wont swing another trade until we clean out the coaches and development mother****ers, or we'll continue to get burnt.

Are you of the opinion that we should get rid of Worsfold and if so who do you think we should be looking at as a replacement?

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Are you of the opinion that we should get rid of Worsfold and if so who do you think we should be looking at as a replacement?

Yes, I think we should get rid of Worsfold but I dont know about the replacements.

I'd be all for Roos or Lyon but chances are neither are coming here and I'm not sold on Laidley.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

I know it's not the right thread for this but we're so Docker like right now.

If we're smart we wont swing another trade until we clean out the coaches and development mother****ers, or we'll continue to get burnt.

I have got no doubt that that is what Worsfold will be arguing for if he still there at the end of the year - sticking with the players on our list already and shunning the trading market or the possibility of making definitive calls on any of our players and considering trading them. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour and that is what he has always done. I think he sees something heroic and sees it as badge of honour to be wrong by over rating our players and backing them in beyond all logic and common sense. It's just as damaging to wrong by over rating our players as it is to underate them.

I think we have to consider trades because with some of those underperforiming younger players on our list the choice is trade them now or be stuck with them permanently. It's like owning a stock that is tanking. Do you cut your losses and get out now or settle in for the long haul and back them to rebound up over time? There is a saying in the markets - run fast or not at all. I think that applies to some of our playing assets at the moment.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

I have got no doubt that that is what Worsfold will be arguing for if he still there at the end of the year - sticking with the players on our list already and shunning the trading market or the possibility of making definitive calls on any of our players and considering trading them. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour and that is what he has always done. I think he sees something heroic and sees it as badge of honour to be wrong by over rating our players and backing them in beyond all logic and common sense. It's just as damaging to wrong by over rating our players as it is to underate them.

I think we have to consider trades because with some of those underperforiming younger players on our list the choice is trade them now or be stuck with them permanently. It's like owning a stock that is tanking. Do you cut your losses and get out now or settle in for the long haul and back them to rebound up over time? There is a saying in the markets - run fast or not at all. I think that applies to some of our playing assets at the moment.

I know there's no point arguing this because I see your point, and only time will tell who's right, but I'm of the complete opposite opinion.

I think we've drafted alright but developed terribly. I think if we trade our underperforming young players now they'll prosper somewhere else. IMO our best move is to keep what we have and get new coaches to develop it.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Yes, I think we should get rid of Worsfold but I dont know about the replacements.

I'd be all for Roos or Lyon but chances are neither are coming here and I'm not sold on Laidley.

That's it in a nutshell.

I'd take Laidley. I am sold on him. And even if we are wrong given that we are not a flag chance for the next 3 years it won't cost us too much in the long run, just as the Ken Judge mistake didn't cost us anything because of where we were in the cycle at that time. We can afford to gamble and i would be prepared to gamble on Laidley.

I also think he would be a good antidote to 10 years of the Worsfold soft and cuddly, back everyone in forever, softly spoken approach to player managament. Laidley will have no problems giving sprays, hairy eyeballs and boots up the asse to players and telling them when they are being soft and underperforming. Sometimes the pendulum swings too far and you start getting diminishing returns from continuing on with the same appraoch. Just as Worsfold was a good antidode to the hard man styles of Malthouse and Judge initially.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

I know there's no point arguing this because I see your point, and only time will tell who's right, but I'm of the complete opposite opinion.

I think we've drafted alright but developed terribly. I think if we trade our underperforming young players now they'll prosper somewhere else. IMO our best move is to keep what we have and get new coaches to develop it.

I am not dead set sold on selling them. It depends on what we could get. But i am prepared and very much in favour of having a solid healthy debate on it where we really open our eyes and look at things dispassionately and consider our options and make sure whatever decision made is a very carefully considered one where all the facts have been taken in. I am very much against just backing them without thinking about any further or in any depth just out of loyalty and because they are already on our list, which is what i think Worsfold would do if left to his devices.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

But i am prepared and very much in favour of having a solid healthy debate on it where we really open our eyes and look at things dispassionately and consider our options and make sure whatever decision made is a very carefully considered one where all the facts have been taken in. I am very much against just backing them without thinking about any further or in any depth just out of loyalty and because they are already on our list

100% agree. Well put.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Dalziell;GAAAAWWWD!!!! Just get in the queue with Ebert Sellwood [both] Priddis Embley WilkesETC

 

[wirra44]

I thought he played alright today, yeah turns the ball over a bit but so does the rest of the team, least he runs all day.

 

[royalsfan]

I agree. We got screwed. And it's not like nobody saw it coming. This trade was never popular on these boards. Even the people defending it could only evert say that it was right to trade Staker. I don't remember anybody ever arguing that Dalziell was a decent player, a good fit for us or adequate compo for Staker.

I see Dalziell as a bellweather player for the future of our club now - if he is still getting game in 2-3 years time that means he is still one of our best 6-8 midfield options which will mean we will still be in the bottom 4.

This is another bad decision Worsfold must take responsibility for. I could forgive him if we were forced into this, ala say the Mitch Morton deal where we had no choice due to PSD threats. But we weren't forced. The club was happy to do this deal. And even accepting that Staker was leaving we didn't even try and look at other options and market him to other clubs or find players commensurate with Staker at other clubs we could have told the Lions to get a 3 way deal done for one of these players if they wanted him. We just took what they offered us.

Another black mark for Worsfold for his poor judgement and foresight and his overly relaxed and under considered decision making processes. Worsfold doesn't think the middle tier player matter. He thinks game outcomes are decided by a clubs best 3-4 players and nothing else matters so he doesn't care about having a solid second tier.

Who do you even barrack for ??
I have yet to see anything positive from you. I see you joined in June. Personally I think you are a troll.

 

[tesseract]

Who do you even barrack for ??
I have yet to see anything positive from you. I see you joined in June. Personally I think you are a troll.

A troll wouldn't bother to go to such efforts with their posts.
Geoffe doesn't seem to me to be a troll, just a concerned and passionate supporter.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

A troll wouldn't bother to go to such efforts with their posts.
Geoffe doesn't seem to me to be a troll, just a concerned and passionate supporter.

He could be Pav. Mayneman has went missing just before he showed up.

I don't care, i like both of them.

We got rooted in the trade.

As for the Dalziell, he really struggles with consistency of effort. One day he throws his body at the contest and can't kick to save himself the next day he runs super hard, kicks well but fails to put himself in a contest at critical stages. His chances of sustaining a long term AFL career are slim.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Dalziell has been fine for us this year. Sometimes I think you blokes bag him because you think he is Rowan Jones.

 

[purplefrog]

Who do you even barrack for ??
I have yet to see anything positive from you. I see you joined in June. Personally I think you are a troll.

A big fan of Geoffe Miles one of the few posters who can actually see things the way they really are. Obviously if Geoffe only joined in June then he is still only an apprentice and you better watch out because he will only get better.

 

[weevil]

21 disposals and 10 marks mostly playing in defence. Was Not his best game (whole team was dreadful) but he really does try his guts out every game.

There is now a “good old staker” thread on the Lions board for expressing Staker love.

 

[Masto]

21 disposals and 10 marks mostly playing in defence. Was Not his best game (whole team was dreadful) but he really does try his guts out every game.

There is now a “good old staker” thread on the Lions board for expressing Staker love.

He is playing better for you than he did for us. At the same time Dalziell is playing worse for us than he did for you. It does make me wonder if Woosh really is the problem.

 

[weevil]

He is playing better for you than he did for us. At the same time Dalziell is playing worse for us than he did for you. It does make me wonder if Woosh really is the problem.

You have to keep in mind that we have won 1 game since round 4. Staker really is one of the few positives we have to talk about.

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

You have to keep in mind that we have won 1 game since round 4. Staker really is one of the few positives we have to talk about.

I've been impressed with him at Brisbane for sure - he certainly looks a 'smarter' footballer there than he did here. Hell, I even saw him peel off his man last night to affect a spoil. What I think he's always struggled with and still does is not knowing who or what makes a good option. If he ever learns to stop handballing to ruckmen under pressure though, he'll be a bit closer to the Staker we know he can be.

Apart from a few hairy moments now and then he looks a reasonably good fit in your defence. To be honest, I thought he was going to be a replacement for TJ with his physical attributes but he seems to have found himself a niche.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

You have to keep in mind that we have won 1 game since round 4. Staker really is one of the few positives we have to talk about.

Sure he got a heap of marks - but he got 3 marks and 3 kicks in a chip around before half time.

Many defenders stats get padded out due to the chip-chip nature of our game.

He wasn't your worst last night - but he isn't setting the world on fire.

Neither is Dalziell of course, although he was admirable in our recent loss.

I'll still stand by my position that it's a nil all draw at the minute

 

[Coledinho]

Baby come back, miss you stakey, any kind of fool could see, it was hansen who should of gone, naita looks so lost without you

 

[Hollow Knight]

Sure he got a heap of marks - but he got 3 marks and 3 kicks in a chip around before half time.

Many defenders stats get padded out due to the chip-chip nature of our game.

Nah, Staker has really come on in the last month. He is having a discernable impact on games (if only more of his teammates were). It's not just chip-chip stat padding. He was absolutely heroic vs Collingwood. His last quarter... my god!

I thought it was a nil all-draw about 6 weeks ago, but I'm starting to think we may have done pretty well on this one.

 

[weevil]

Sure he got a heap of marks - but he got 3 marks and 3 kicks in a chip around before half time.

Many defenders stats get padded out due to the chip-chip nature of our game.

He wasn't your worst last night - but he isn't setting the world on fire.

Neither is Dalziell of course, although he was admirable in our recent loss.

I'll still stand by my position that it's a nil all draw at the minute

Nah like I said last night was not his best game, was just okay, but in many of the games leading up to this he has been very good.