The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Pugz89]

I obviously agree with Biden stepping down. Any man and his dog could see he wasn't fit for another term. But for the DNC to swap out a candidate this late in the campaign, the obvious angle for the GOP would surely be that if they can't even run their campaign without this happening, then how can you trust them to run a country. And while the coasts are loyal democrats, that angle could resonate with much of the middle class who are battling to pay bills etc and are worried it may get even worse.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I don’t think he tried to overturn the result, he threw a tantrum sure. But was it any bigger than Hillary’s tantrum and conspiracy theories she talked about for years after she lost?

C'mon Fresh. This is silly even by your standards.

Trump literally filed 61 unsuccessful lawsuits, including many in front of judges he appointed challenging the election result without a single shred of verifiable evidence. Then there's the not insignificant matter of inciting his followers to rampage through the capitol building.

Firstly: Hilary isn't a candidate in this election, so is irrelevant to proceedings. Secondly: The myth about Hilary is just that. A myth put about by the right. She conceded both privately to Trump and publicly on TV immediately after the result became known. Something that to this very day Trump has never done publicly. Indeed his furthering of the notion that the election was somehow stolen in the face of all reality is still a key plank of his ramblingly idiotic stump speeches. A theme that he squeezes in when not addressing the weighty issues that affect the daily lives of all Americans. His thoughts on Sharks, Showers, Dishwashers, Windmills and his friend the late great Hannibal Lecter.

Now that Biden has done the dignified thing and dropped out. Perhaps everybody will focus on the one remaining candidate who is very clearly in cognitive decline and way too old to be President.

Seriously, is there a right wing talking point that you aren't willing to turn into a false equivalency?

If there is. Im yet to see it.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I obviously agree with Biden stepping down. Any man and his dog could see he wasn't fit for another term. But for the DNC to swap out a candidate this late in the campaign, the obvious angle for the GOP would surely be that if they can't even run their campaign without this happening, then how can you trust them to run a country. And while the coasts are loyal democrats, that angle could resonate with much of the middle class who are battling to pay bills etc and are worried it may get even worse.

The flip side of that argument is to use the same issues that they so successfully used to target Biden's obvious cognitive decline and age and use it against Trump. The GoP Can no longer play that card, so they will fall back on the tried and true of misogyny and racism.

Both seem pretty straight forward strategies to me.

 

[Mofra]

The flip side of that argument is to use the same issues that they so successfully used to target Biden's obvious cognitive decline and age and use it against Trump. The GoP Can no longer play that card, so they will fall back on the tried and true of misogyny and racism.

Both seem pretty straight forward strategies to me.

JD Vance's wife is sadly finding out the hard way how well the GOP tolerate women of colour.

One thing Kamala would do is shift the focus from Trump onto her. That probably helps the Dems a bit as the US loves the cult of celebrity. She's not popular but the last polls I saw has 'anyone' beating Biden as preferred Dems nominee 75/25

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The honourable thing would have been for Biden to declare half-way through his term that he would not be seeking re-election. Better late than never, but after losing so much support I think his decision was pragmatic rather than noble.

His obstinance has called into question his judgment and integrity but political historians will probably view his legacy positively - unless the Dems have a House of Reps/Senate wipeout in November.

The thing is that peoples views are so entrenched that even after Bidens disastrous debate performance the polling hadn't shifted significantly in favour of Trump. What they were showing was that democrats were shifting into the undecided column and indicating the likelihood that they would sit out the election. Thus weakening their overall position and forcing their hand to encourage Biden out.

It remains to be seen whether they will rally around Harris. But I suspect this will energise and increase their turnout significantly. The prospect of another Biden term wasn't doing that.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

JD Vance's wife is sadly finding out the hard way how well the GOP tolerate women of colour.

One thing Kamala would do is shift the focus from Trump onto her. That probably helps the Dems a bit as the US loves the cult of celebrity. She's not popular but the last polls I saw has 'anyone' beating Biden as preferred Dems nominee 75/25

Its going to be very uncomfortable for Usha Vance to watch her husbands party tear into Harris for her heritage. I suspect that Usha will be pushed way off into the background now. Perhaps should could join Melania swanning about Manhattan luxury stores instead of accompanying their odious husbands on the trail.

 

[Next Waiting]

Its going to be very uncomfortable for Usha Vance to watch her husbands party tear into Harris for her heritage. I suspect that Usha will be pushed way off into the background now. Perhaps should could join Melania swanning about Manhattan luxury stores instead of accompanying their odious husbands on the trail.

 

[Mofra]

Its going to be very uncomfortable for Usha Vance to watch her husbands party tear into Harris for her heritage. I suspect that Usha will be pushed way off into the background now. Perhaps should could join Melania swanning about Manhattan luxury stores instead of accompanying their odious husbands on the trail.

Post convention she'll be hidden for sure. Too many votes would be lost if they don't court the white nationalists who make up their core voter block

 

[Norm De Guerre]

You may not agree with the justices on the Supreme Court but whether they think they’re conservative, progressive whatever, hopefully they just interpret the constitution as it is, not how they want it to be or stretch it it or a ‘living’ constitution etc. They do explain their decisions, it doesn’t always go the way we wish, but as I said, hopefully they just interpret the constitution as it is? No going to the Federalist Papers or this is how Adam’s or Jefferson would do it, etc As it states.

This is hilariously naive.

Justices Alito and Thomas in particular claim to be strict textualist, but abandon these principles when it doesn't suit, then they interpret the constitution as they see fit and in line with their personal world views. Whether that aligns with their faith or the wishes of financial backers or really anybody willing to shell out for a bitchin' RV. It also flies in the face of a reality where all 3 of Trumps appointees are members of and have come directly from a list drawn up and handed to him by the Federalists Society. Their recent ruling that the President is all but above the law makes a mockery of a constitution that explicitly states otherwise.

 

[Next Waiting]

It seems that this is a political rug that has been pulled out from underneath the Reps. They've committed to the Trump and Vance ticket which has shored up their base, if their base was ever in doubt, and they had the senile Biden card to play all the way through to the election.

Bang it's changed but they haven't. Not sure it's within them to reinvent themselves sufficiently enough to appeal to a swing vote and democrat vote that suddenly might be re-engaged and prepared to vote if they see a viable alternative.

So so interesting.

 

[_Mike_]

Im just sittin here while it all unfolds

 

[BrisDog]

The Federalist Society, sorry, Republican Party must be slightly nervous.

The great thing is that the true Independants, like an American version of Freshwater, can vote for a rational political party. RFK will show his stripes this week and give his endorsement to Trump, so that leaves the American ‘Freshwater’ voter only one rational choice -The Democratic candidate.

The Democratics are the only party that respects the Constitution - with a clear separation of The State, the Church and the Judiciary.

That must make you happy Fresh? Fresh??

 

[BrisDog]

 

[Next Waiting]

That Time Magazine cover they just flashed up on CNN is quite good

 

[Freshwater]

This is hilariously naive.

Justices Alito and Thomas in particular claim to be strict textualist, but abandon these principles when it doesn't suit, then they interpret the constitution as they see fit and in line with their personal world views. Whether that aligns with their faith or the wishes of financial backers or really anybody willing to shell out for a bitchin' RV. It also flies in the face of a reality where all 3 of Trumps appointees are members of and have come directly from a list drawn up and handed to him by the Federalists Society. Their recent ruling that the President is all but above the law makes a mockery of the a constitution that explicitly states otherwise.

I agree to a point here. That’s what I was trying to get across. If you lean left like you do you’ll see these decisions through your lens, like we all do. And you won’t agree with Thomas and Alito but they are doing their best.
The Supreme Court for all its faults needs to exist. Their’s is a big messy system, all elected officials are rightly governed by their state and general constitutions. 300,000,000 plus million will never agree so this system is working for all modern media tells us every little thing that doesn’t work.

 

[Freshwater]

Where were you on Jan 6?

Hillary conceded defeat, Trump still hasnt.... He launched dozens of court challenges and lost them all. Wow.

The single most fundamental element to democracy, accepting the will of the people, and hes above it. He, and his sycophantic followers, need to consider that just because everybody they know voted for Trump doesnt mean they know everybody who voted.

Hilary bellyached for years and even blamed Russia, so I don’t think she did concede.

 

[Next Waiting]

Hilary bellyached for years and even blamed Russia, so I don’t think she did concede.

She did concede. She rang Trump to say I concede and congratulations. She may not have truly meant congratulations, but in the interests of Democracy ... and convention and the peaceful transfer of power... she conceded and let the result stand unchallenged .... as every other presidential rival has done (in the time that telephones have existed) with the exception of Trump.

 

[BrisDog]

I agree to a point here. That’s what I was trying to get across. If you lean left like you do you’ll see these decisions through your lens, like we all do. And you won’t agree with Thomas and Alito but they are doing their best.
The Supreme Court for all its faults needs to exist. Their’s is a big messy system, all elected officials are rightly governed by their state and general constitutions. 300,000,000 plus million will never agree so this system is working for all modern media tells us every little thing that doesn’t work.

Fresh - are you all good with Thomas and Alito of the Supreme court being on the take from Republican rich crooks like the Koch brothers? For influence of course.

Independent branch of Government my arse.

Clarence Thomas Secretly Accepted Luxury Trips From Major GOP Donor

Island-hopping on a superyacht. Private jet rides around the world. The undisclosed gifts to Thomas have no known precedent in the modern history of the Supreme Court. “It’s incomprehensible to me that someone would do this,” says one former judge.

www.propublica.org

Clarence Thomas Broke the Law. Why Is He Not Being Prosecuted?

 

[Next Waiting]

Here's one to think about and I declare that I don't know what the answer is.

On Jan 6th, Trump and his unruly mob were trying to persuade VP Mike Pence not to ratify the electoral college votes.

If Biden sees out his term, and Harris wins the election, will she not as VP be in the same position as Pence....that is to say...ratifying the electoral college votes to confirm her own election as President (if successful).

Is that a conflict of interest or another opportunity to take the high ground, Biden resigns as President now, an interim VP is selected who can then ratify the electoral college votes if Harris is the nominee and wins.

Can declare ahead of the election that she will accept the result and transparently not put herself in a position where she gets to stamp her own Presidency. Another point of difference from Trump that may well resonate.

Happy for any assumptions made here to be corrected.

 

[yebach]

Flipping the script? Its a common trait of MAGA, "weaponised justice dept" etc. Pot meet kettle...

You might need to read some history, UKRAINE wanted to join NATO and Europe. PUTIN invaded, not Biden. Republicans held up the military aid Ukraine needs and Russia advanced, Dems and Biden got the aid through finally and Russias been in retreat ever since. Trump wants to stop aid to ukraine (he was impeached for that back in the day) to help his mate Vlad.

And you reckon Ukrainians dont like Biden? They love him. They know Trump and the publicans will stop the aid they rely on.

If only they loved the Palestinians as much as they love the Ukrainians.

 

[LittleG]

If only they loved the Palestinians as much as they live the Ukrainians.

 

[BrisDog]

If only they loved the Palestinians as much as they live the Ukrainians.

Russia poses a threat for the entirety of Europe. Palestine, or Hamas more precisely, only poses a threat to Israel. It is silly to compare the two.

 

[Next Waiting]

24 hours is a long time in politics. The republican convention seems so last year already.

 

[yebach]

Again. For the 100th time. I'm not on either side. This thread has proven that batshit crazy left and batshit crazy right are equally crazy.
Call me a hippie, but I'm just anti war. I'd love to see no wars started, funded, encouraged, orchestrated, manovered or set up by the US OF A.
There should be peaceful (relatively) means to solve international disputes.

 

[yebach]

Russia loses a threat for the entirety of Europe. Palestine, or Hamas more precisely, only loses a threat to Israel. It is silly to compare the two.

One is genocide.