The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[yebach]

And JD Vance , may be the best bloke in the world , may even be very smart ?

But once you hitch your wagon to Trump , be prepared to lose any morality and tell lies on cue.
His defending of his wife from a racist attack was just piss weak.
Don’t want to upset all the Republican racist voters !

No , just another hypocritical boot licker prepared to do and say anything to please the dear leader just to get ahead.

Just out of curiosity. Are there any Democrat racists?

 

[yebach]

Nothing to do with disagreeing with someone.
But spreading misinformation or racist dog whistles ,inciting violence is not free speech for me.
Obviously is for some.

By the way there has never been or will be “ free speech “ in the true sense.
Neither should there be if you want to live as a functioning society.

You and Idi Amin have a lot in common.

 

[Freshwater]

No it's not. What you seem to find difficult to understand is that even the 1st amendment that you are weirdly obsessed with has it limits

I’m not weirdly obsessed with it because I value it as the most important right which it clearly is. America is America because of it. Their three founding documents emphasis liberty with the first amendment narrowly defining freedom of speech. I couldn’t care if you’re from the left or right, if you are against freedom of speech you have authoritarian tendencies and views. There are crew on here worried that Trump may become an authoritarian yet want to curb free speech themselves .

 

[King Harold]

Just out of curiosity. Are there any Democrat racists?

I’m sure there is , but when one party has an affiliation with racist groups it’s a lot easier to identify the racists within that party.
How would you feel if a leader of either party wines and dines white supremacist and holocaust deniers at their home ?

Hope that helps ?

Idi Amin ? You got me on that one , you may have to explain ?

And noted your likes for your very clever question

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

I’m not weirdly obsessed with it because I value it as the most important right which it clearly is. America is America because of it. Their three founding documents emphasis liberty with the first amendment narrowly defining freedom of speech. I couldn’t care if you’re from the left or right, if you are against freedom of speech you have authoritarian tendencies and views. There are crew on here worried that Trump may become an authoritarian yet want to curb free speech themselves .

So you think people should be able to say anything without consequence? Would inciting violence be ok in your opinion? Threats to individuals? Intimidating witnesses? The list goes on.

True freedom of speech has never truly been allowed in any modern civilisation and how could it be.

 

[King Harold]

So you think people should be able to say anything without consequence? Would inciting violence be ok in your opinion? Threats to individuals? Intimidating witnesses? The list goes on.

True freedom of speech has never truly been allowed in any modern civilisation and how could it be.

Good luck getting a coherent response MT.

You will join me as an Idi Amin fan

 

[King Harold]

Just out of curiosity. Are there any Democrat racists?

This is the best I can come up with right now.

Are Democrats the "real racists"? Well, they used to be: Here's the history

It's a right-wing talking point meant to distract us from the obvious. As with many lies, there's a grain of truth

www.salon.com

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I’m not weirdly obsessed with it because I value it as the most important right which it clearly is. America is America because of it. Their three founding documents emphasis liberty with the first amendment narrowly defining freedom of speech.
I couldn’t care if you’re from the left or right, if you are against freedom of speech you have authoritarian tendencies and views. There are crew on here worried that Trump may become an authoritarian yet want to curb free speech themselves .

Your binary straw man arguments are really tiresome.

Do you understand that there are established limits that draw the line on what constitutes protected and unprotected speech as it pertains to the 2nd amendment?

Freedom of speech is not an absolute and its not a slippery slope into authoritarianism if there are limits placed upon it as you suggest.

 

[Freshwater]

So you think people should be able to say anything without consequence? Would inciting violence be ok in your opinion? Threats to individuals? Intimidating witnesses? The list goes on.

True freedom of speech has never truly been allowed in any modern civilisation and how could it be.

Elon Musk was interviewing the former president and presidential candidate and the EU were putting him on notice?! All last week Elon was criticising Britain on their decline back to censorship. Political parties can’t control the narrative like they used to through the old media. Especially true to our modern ‘uniparty’ that never listens to their constituents. This is an era like in times gone by when the bible was hidden from the masses because they wouldn’t understand or interpret it correctly.
If I could post a wonderful 9 minute YouTube speech by Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean) on freedom of speech, it might help sum up how I feel about it and how important it is. Someone might be able to?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Your binary straw man arguments are really tiresome.

"Tiresome" is generous Norm.

Do you understand...

Freedom of speech is not an absolute

It is in "black and white world", where there's no grey. Or beige. Or tangerine...

I admire your persistence NDG.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Musk is pretty weird for sure. Those Uber high achievers really are. But he is keeping ‘freedom of speech’ alive.

He refers to himself as a free speech absolutist, but in reality he is extremely hypocritical when it comes to free speech. Purely reactivating the accounts of people like Andrew Tate, Alex Jones and QANON whack jobs accounts on X doesn't make one a free speech absolutist.

He has:
Sued advertisers for not advertising on X
Threatened to sue the Anti Defamation League and is actually suing the Center for Countering Digital Hate after they criticized X for publishing research showing that hate speech on X had soared
Made using the word cis or cisgender on X a violation of their rules
Suspended any journalist from X who tweeted about the ElonJet account
Asked Tesla employees who have been laid off to sign separation agreements with non-disparagement clauses that have no end-date
X complied with demands from the Indian government to censor a BBC documentary that was critical of the Indian Prime Minister
Removed posts and blocked accounts who posted about a transgender protest in Washington DC
Has never said anything about the free speech rights of Chinese people, due to his huge business interests there

 

[Guido]

If I could post a wonderful 9 minute YouTube speech by Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean) on freedom of speech, it might help sum up how I feel about it and how important it is. Someone might be able to?

This below vid includes that speech, but also has some speeches/arguments from Ricky Gervais and Stephen Fry.

 

[wayniac]

Elon Musk was interviewing the former president and presidential candidate and the EU were putting him on notice?! All last week Elon was criticising Britain on their decline back to censorship. Political parties can’t control the narrative like they used to through the old media. Especially true to our modern ‘uniparty’ that never listens to their constituents. This is an era like in times gone by when the bible was hidden from the masses because they wouldn’t understand or interpret it correctly.
If I could post a wonderful 9 minute YouTube speech by Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean) on freedom of speech, it might help sum up how I feel about it and how important it is. Someone might be able to?

How they roll and what the future holds......

Cleve Wootson, a reporter for the Washington Post, asked Press Secretary KJP whether the White House would be doing something to kill the interview before it happened.


Among the issues WaPo has Wootson covering: equity.

Right. Guaranteed equal outcomes for everyone, except people like Trump and Musk—when it comes to free speech.


And the top of the government is the place to handle that, when SERIOUS material needs to be censored.

 

[Freshwater]

He refers to himself as a free speech absolutist, but in reality he is extremely hypocritical when it comes to free speech. Purely reactivating the accounts of people like Andrew Tate, Alex Jones and QANON whack jobs accounts on X doesn't make one a free speech absolutist.

He has:
Sued advertisers for not advertising on X
Threatened to sue the Anti Defamation League and is actually suing the Center for Countering Digital Hate after they criticized X for publishing research showing that hate speech on X had soared
Made using the word cis or cisgender on X a violation of their rules
Suspended any journalist from X who tweeted about the ElonJet account
Asked Tesla employees who have been laid off to sign separation agreements with non-disparagement clauses that have no end-date
X complied with demands from the Indian government to censor a BBC documentary that was critical of the Indian Prime Minister
Removed posts and blocked accounts who posted about a transgender protest in Washington DC
Has never said anything about the free speech rights of Chinese people, due to his huge business interests there

Agree with all of that. But he has made X closer to freedom of speech than it was, and that can only be a good thing. Private companies are allowed to limit whatever they wish, but thank God there is someone like Elon out there. Freedom of speech will always have consequences. Besides direct incitement to violence or defamation governments have absolutely no role in blocking speech. I hear protesters all the time recently chanting some horrible things, the eradication of countries and peoples. I just give ‘em the bird and move on, it is their right to be offensive and wrong. Freedom of speech is not just for ideas I like and think are correct, but it takes maturity and confidence and trust in your citizens to be able have it. America in 1776 was still liberally and philosophically ahead of Europe in 2024?

 

[King Harold]

Just a reminder we live in weird times !

Curtis Yarvin wants American democracy toppled. He has some prominent Republican fans.

Yarvin is in the ear of Blake Masters, Peter Thiel, and J.D. Vance.

www.vox.com

 

[yebach]

This is the best I can come up with right now.

Are Democrats the "real racists"? Well, they used to be: Here's the history

It's a right-wing talking point meant to distract us from the obvious. As with many lies, there's a grain of truth

www.salon.com

Thanks for the history lesson. You really didn't need to go so far back though.

" Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."

"Unlike the African-American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things"

Joe Biden

 

[yebach]

Nothing to do with disagreeing with someone.
But spreading misinformation or racist dog whistles ,inciting violence is not free speech for me.
Obviously is for some.

By the way there has never been or will be “ free speech “ in the true sense.
Neither should there be if you want to live as a functioning society.

" There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech."

Idi Amin


" We have to put a stop to the idea that it is a part of everybody's civil rights to say whatever he pleases."

Adolf Hitler

 

[Bulldog1954]

" There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech."

Idi Amin


" We have to put a stop to the idea that it is a part of everybody's civil rights to say whatever he pleases."

Adolf Hitler

“To me free speech is not when you see something good and then you purposely write bad. To me that’s very dangerous speech, and you become angry at it. But that’s not free speech.”

Donald Trump

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I admire your persistence NDG.

What can I say.

I like circuses and playing pointless games of whack a mole.

It amuses me no end.

 

[yebach]

“To me free speech is not when you see something good and then you purposely write bad. To me that’s very dangerous speech, and you become angry at it. But that’s not free speech.”

Donald Trump

Are you saying King Harold and Trump share the same views on freedom of speech?

 

[King Harold]

Bugger me ! I’m a cross between Idi Amin and Hitler

What people will say in defence of Trump and Trumpism is staggering.
I am indeed floating around on a different rock.

 

[King Harold]

" There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech."

Idi Amin


" We have to put a stop to the idea that it is a part of everybody's civil rights to say whatever he pleases."

Adolf Hitler

I am assuming you haven’t bothered to understand my post.

Try standing on the steps at Flinders st and shout obscenities at Asian people as they walk by.

Should that be allowed ?
Will it be allowed ?
Is it just free speech ?

Regards , Adolf

 

[Mofra]

I listened to all of Elon’s conversation with Trump today. It was interesting. Trump was at his rambling, incoherent best, making up statistics as he went. You can tell he is still like a child in he has to continually get praise.
Elon was playing him a bit I reckon? Some of the things he was saying were putting as much pressure on Biden/Harris to fix as he was calling/pleading for Trump to fix, hedging his bets to whoever gets in. Examples being the issues of rampant immigration and government spending most notably.

Trump's deficits seems to get glossed over by his supporters. Over 4% of GDP deficit, pissed up against the (unfinished) wall on tax cuts for multi billionaires and massive military spending.

It's horrible economic mismanagement that seems to get next to no scrutiny.

 

[Mofra]

I’m not weirdly obsessed with it because I value it as the most important right which it clearly is. America is America because of it. Their three founding documents emphasis liberty with the first amendment narrowly defining freedom of speech. I couldn’t care if you’re from the left or right, if you are against freedom of speech you have authoritarian tendencies and views. There are crew on here worried that Trump may become an authoritarian yet want to curb free speech themselves .

It's not the Democrats burning books in Florida.
"Moms for Liberty"

 

[bresker]

...... or disallowing black people from talking about their experience of racism in schools, as it makes some white teenagers uncomfortable.

Muzzled by DeSantis, Critical Race Theory Professors Cancel Courses or Modify Their Teaching

As fewer faculty members are protected by tenure, they’re finding it harder to resist laws that ban certain racial topics. Their students suffer the consequences.

www.propublica.org