The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Mutt]

There are a couple of bad actors who come on shout accusations then offer no principle or idea and then you don’t hear from them. If taken in good faith, like most on here, we can agree to disagree civilly.
Nobody has to log into it if they don’t like it. We are a reflection of the community at large, sorting through important issues of the day. This is how we grow or else we live in echo chambers of our ignorance. Those that demonise the ‘other’ in politics or anything need to know why the ‘other’ thinks the way they do, or else they will just think the ‘other’ thinks like that because of bad motives, when the opposite is often true. We need to understand their ‘why’.

The conversation is largely uncritically regurgitating other material from media and internet sources. Do you really think anybody's mind has been changed on any issues of import by reading this thread? I don't like the thread because it breeds division between our own supporters over issues that are not in any meaningful way related to football.

Just my view - I'm not tempted to impose my will on the community by locking the thread though.

 

[H Dolphin]

There are a couple of bad actors who come on shout accusations then offer no principle or idea and then you don’t hear from them. If taken in good faith, like most on here, we can agree to disagree civilly.
Nobody has to log into it if they don’t like it. We are a reflection of the community at large, sorting through important issues of the day. This is how we grow or else we live in echo chambers of our ignorance. Those that demonise the ‘other’ in politics or anything need to know why the ‘other’ thinks the way they do, or else they will just think the ‘other’ thinks like that because of bad motives, when the opposite is often true. We need to understand their ‘why’.

...and it's good for a bit of a laugh.

 

[King Harold]

Medical science is magnificent, nobody is arguing that it is not. It isn’t a weapon to be enforced on people. My mate was prescribed blood pressure pills on the insistence of his doctor. He said yeah maybe, but I’m going cut out this and that and start walking etc. Guess what, his blood pressure was fine. If we had enforced ‘science’ he’d be on those pills for life. Choice is essential in our western society.

Don’t want to get into your ridiculous arguments, we have been down this road too many times already.
We would all like to live in a utopia, not ever going to happen, so we need all sorts of rules and regulations for a society to function.

First time I have heard you can catch blood pressure ?
There is no law against alcoholism either , just drink yourself to death if you want !
But there are plenty of rules and restrictions on you if you are one.
ie , driving , work place etc

 

[King Harold]

So RFK, the principled and balanced spokesperson for the American people throws his weight behind, a conviction criminal.
This bloke that is so concerned about your health and the environment. The bloke that wants food , chemical and drug companies investigated because they are poisoning their children, causing obesity, autism and even death.
All very noble pursuits.

But he has either been bought ( his biggest contributor is a Republican) or those brain worms are still munching away.
One of Trumps first actions when in office was to gut the EPA.
Trump is also a fervent climate change denier.
His father and uncle will be turning in their graves !

Tells me all l need to know about this hypocrite.
Have a look at a couple of interviews he did 6- 12 months ago and check out how his views then line up with the Republican Party of today.

Yep , just another politician that’s sold his soul to the devil.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

How it started.

Anybody who thinks that when unofficial Trump supplicant and pro level rim jobber Sean Hannity isn't broadcasting this takedown of BobJr. on behalf of Trump and his campaign. Is dumber than I already think you are.



Offical Trump spokesperson and part human part plastic Barbie doing the same.

Im sure that it was just a coincidence that it happened the same day as the above.



This is going to make for some awkward campaigning.

That is, until Trump decides it's time for JD to take his weird awkwardness when interacting with actual human beings, his donuts and go under the bus. Just like everybody else who has outlived their usefulness in Trumps orbit.



Speaking of awkward interactions and donuts...

"Ma'am, if you dont want to be on film thats ok" They ten proceed with showing her on film.

What a bunch of red arsehats.



I guess one final desperate grasp at power after being rubbutted by the democrats for a post election role a few weeks ago.

Has a way of smoothing out the fundamental differences that Bob Jr. had with Trump, to a point where they are no longer fundamental. All aboard the Grift Express. Toot! Toot!




How its going.



Transactionary men, gotta transact.

Fat man ponders "The decades long increase in chronic health problems..."



He might want to look in front of him for the answer. Instead of doing what he does best, pander to peoples worst instincts.

He

 

[Freshwater]

A couple of weeks ago I listened to the whole Trump, Musk interview and concluded that Trump is an egomaniac with more than a few loose screws but that it was Elon who was the most interesting. And who understood free speech and inflation better than Trump.
I just heard the entire 48 minute RFK JR speech. Just utterly brilliant! The best thing I’ve heard in …forever. He said he still has not just minor but major differences with Trump, he will be allowed to express them publicly (how refreshing is this? No towing the party line) but he has three really strong points that line with Trump. Trump will fix Ukraine war situation, explained how, he will continue to value free speech and stop the federal agencies assault against free speech and help our children’s health, free from big pharma, big tech and big Ag. He spoke non stop, didn’t ramble, was ashamed of the modern Democratic Party and the way they’ve selected a candidate that no one voted for and that she still refuses to interview or debate.
Just a small point in that speech that really warmed my heart was his opinions on seed oils. I’ve read numerous articles and books about the dangers of seed oils since 1995. Big Ag pushed them and they are not fit for human beings. We’ve only been able to extract them in the 20th century because of mechanical engineering, they are a waste product and should have no place in our food supply, the cause of much ill health. Finally!
Anyway, I ve been happy to criticise Trump this whole debate but have him still ahead of the Democrats, that how bad they are. But this man and this speech has moved me, the anti Pharma, and big Corporations, back to grass roots, organic food working class folks. Gold, love it. We need someone like this in Australia.

 

[manutd/dogs]

A couple of weeks ago I listened to the whole Trump, Musk interview and concluded that Trump is an egomaniac with more than a few loose screws but that it was Elon who was the most interesting. And who understood free speech and inflation better than Trump.
I just heard the entire 48 minute RFK JR speech. Just utterly brilliant! The best thing I’ve heard in …forever. He said he still has not just minor but major differences with Trump, he will be allowed to express them publicly (how refreshing is this? No towing the party line) but he has three really strong points that line with Trump. Trump will fix Ukraine war situation, explained how, he will continue to value free speech and stop the federal agencies assault against free speech and help our children’s health, free from big pharma, big tech and big Ag. He spoke non stop, didn’t ramble, was ashamed of the modern Democratic Party and the way they’ve selected a candidate that no one voted for and that she still refuses to interview or debate.
Just a small point in that speech that really warmed my heart was his opinions on seed oils. I’ve read numerous articles and books about the dangers of seed oils since 1995. Big Ag pushed them and they are not fit for human beings. We’ve only been able to extract them in the 20th century because of mechanical engineering, they are a waste product and should have no place in our food supply, the cause of much ill health. Finally!
Anyway, I ve been happy to criticise Trump this whole debate but have him still ahead of the Democrats, that how bad they are. But this man and this speech has moved me, the anti Pharma, and big Corporations, back to grass roots, organic food working class folks. Gold, love it. We need someone like this in Australia.

Read an 'article' in The Age the other day with a nutritionist advising people to use seed oils over coconut, avocado and EVOO. lolwut?

Kennedy is the only candidate with even a smidgeon of integrity. His Dad and uncle wouldn't recognise what the Dems have become and while they would rightfully despise Trump, I feel they would've understood it. Let's hope Trump actually keeps his promise on releasing all of the JFK files this time.

 

[Freshwater]

Read an 'article' in The Age the other day with a nutritionist advising people to use seed oils over coconut, avocado and EVOO. lolwut?

Kennedy is the only candidate with even a smidgeon of integrity. His Dad and uncle wouldn't recognise what the Dems have become and while they would rightfully despise Trump, I feel they would've understood it. Let's hope Trump actually keeps his promise on releasing all of the JFK files this time.

How they tried to continually keep him off the ballot with court injunctions was/is shameful.

 

[manutd/dogs]

How they tried to continually keep him off the ballot with court injunctions was/is shameful.

Absolutely pathetic. I lost what little remaining respect I had for them with that. Then they turn around and snidely say he's inconsequential. Then why were you trying desperately to strike him off the ballot in every state? I should have given up on them after what they did to Bernie in 2016. At least RFK had the balls not to take it lying down. Good on him.

 

[LittleG]

A couple of weeks ago I listened to the whole Trump, Musk interview and concluded that Trump is an egomaniac with more than a few loose screws but that it was Elon who was the most interesting. And who understood free speech and inflation better than Trump.
I just heard the entire 48 minute RFK JR speech. Just utterly brilliant! The best thing I’ve heard in …forever. He said he still has not just minor but major differences with Trump, he will be allowed to express them publicly (how refreshing is this? No towing the party line) but he has three really strong points that line with Trump. Trump will fix Ukraine war situation, explained how, he will continue to value free speech and stop the federal agencies assault against free speech and help our children’s health, free from big pharma, big tech and big Ag. He spoke non stop, didn’t ramble, was ashamed of the modern Democratic Party and the way they’ve selected a candidate that no one voted for and that she still refuses to interview or debate.
Just a small point in that speech that really warmed my heart was his opinions on seed oils. I’ve read numerous articles and books about the dangers of seed oils since 1995. Big Ag pushed them and they are not fit for human beings. We’ve only been able to extract them in the 20th century because of mechanical engineering, they are a waste product and should have no place in our food supply, the cause of much ill health. Finally!
Anyway, I ve been happy to criticise Trump this whole debate but have him still ahead of the Democrats, that how bad they are. But this man and this speech has moved me, the anti Pharma, and big Corporations, back to grass roots, organic food working class folks. Gold, love it. We need someone like this in Australia.

I have seen footage of over 6 different times Kamala has stopped to answer questions from the press.
Kamala has run for public office on multiple occasions…. Debated many times. She has been elected to national and state wide offices.

 

[King Harold]

I have seen footage of over 6 different times Kamala has stopped to answer questions from the press.
Kamala has run for public office on multiple occasions…. Debated many times. She has been elected to national and state wide offices.

They’re full Trump cool aid LG.
They are fine with a criminal , narcissistic moron, whose whole being is to enrich himself.
Bloke should be in gaol.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

It’s become a cooker love fest in here.

 

[glenashley]

The conversation is largely uncritically regurgitating other material from media and internet sources. Do you really think anybody's mind has been changed on any issues of import by reading this thread? I don't like the thread because it breeds division between our own supporters over issues that are not in any meaningful way related to football.

Just my view - I'm not tempted to impose my will on the community by locking the thread though.

My mum told me never to argue with strangers on the internet, particularly ones whose opinions you'll never change.

There's a SRP board for those types.

Fortunately I'm banned from it.

Go dogs.

 

[King Harold]

My mum told me never to argue with strangers on the internet, particularly ones whose opinions you'll never change.

There's a SRP board for those types.

Fortunately I'm banned from it.

Go dogs.

Your mother is a wise woman

 

[Gold Coast Doggies]

They’re full Trump cool aid LG.
They are fine with a criminal , narcissistic moron, whose whole being is to enrich himself.
Bloke should be in gaol.

I reckon 95% of all politicians around the world fall into the same category, very few are for the people, the seem to leave office a lot richer from when they got elected

 

[Freshwater]

I fail to see how anyone who considers themselves of the ‘left’ would fail to be impressed by RFK jr’s speech. He wants to reduce the state, he wants to challenge and be independent from big tech, big pharma, and big Ag. He want the processed foods, especially the seed oils out of school lunches. He wants to ensure freedom of speech and the constitution is adhered to. He wants NATO and the US to not be so hawkish (blaming too many neo-cons in the Democratic Party) All ideals the ‘left’ subscribed to until… what, 5 minutes ago, 5 years ago?? Don’t worry about which team you think you should barrack for, but worry about the values you used to stand for.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I fail to see how anyone who considers themselves of the ‘left’ would fail to be impressed by RFK jr’s speech. He wants to reduce the state, he wants to challenge and be independent from big tech, big pharma, and big Ag. He want the processed foods, especially the seed oils out of school lunches. He wants to ensure freedom of speech and the constitution is adhered to. He wants NATO and the US to not be so hawkish (blaming too many neo-cons in the Democratic Party) All ideals the ‘left’ subscribed to until… what, 5 minutes ago, 5 years ago?? Don’t worry about which team you think you should barrack for, but worry about the values you used to stand for.

He’s a shit talking cooker who’s now selling his soul for a seat at the big table. He clearly has no principals and doesn’t give a **** about the things he claims, much like Trump. So not surprised he warms your heart.

He’s now aligning himself with the worst of the worst

You talk about values, but you cheer guys like this on. You defend Trump and spruik right wing cooker narratives.

It’s pretty clear it’s not others that need to check their values.

 

[yebach]

He’s a shit talking cooker who’s now selling his soul for a seat at the big table. He clearly has no principals and doesn’t give a **** about the things he claims, much like Trump. So not surprised he warms your heart.

He’s now aligning himself with the worst of the worst

You talk about values, but you cheer guys like this on. You defend Trump and spruik right wing cooker narratives.

It’s pretty clear it’s not others that need to check their values.

You've got a black belt in talking s**t

 

[King Harold]

He’s a shit talking cooker who’s now selling his soul for a seat at the big table. He clearly has no principals and doesn’t give a **** about the things he claims, much like your hero Trump. So not surprised he warms your heart.

He’s now aligning himself with the worst of the worst

You talk about values, but you cheer guys like this on. You defend Trump and spruik right wing cooker narratives.

It’s pretty clear it’s not others that need to check their values.

100% Charlie.
So the Trump party all of a sudden align with these so called principles
They literally have no principles or values.

Your trying to argue with someone who just said “ he will be allowed to air his views publicly “
Then in brackets “ how refreshing is that “

He has forgotten already , he’s now on the Trump train , nobody does that !
How has that worked for anyone else in Trumps orbit - ever ?

Again they will just casually glide over the hypocrisy like it doesn’t exist.

 

[King Harold]

I reckon 95% of all politicians around the world fall into the same category, very few are for the people, the seem to leave office a lot richer from when they got elected

That’s a big number , I would like to think it’s nowhere near that high.

But let’s be specific.
Trump the politician:
Totally ignored the emoluments rule during his presidency.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S9-C8-3/ALDE_00013206/

Never mind all the grift he inflicts on his brain dead supporters.
And to this day using their donations to fight his many legal battles.

I remind you his lifetime court battles now number over 4000 , and growing by the day .
He must be the unluckiest innocent person in the world ?
I have no doubt there is plenty of examples from all political stripes , but your man is the reigning world champ !

I assume because you think 95% of the rest of them do it , your cool for him to continue the grift ?

 

[yebach]

That’s a big number , I would like to think it’s nowhere near that high.

But let’s be specific.
Trump the politician:
Totally ignored the emoluments rule during his presidency.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S9-C8-3/ALDE_00013206/

Never mind all the grift he inflicts on his brain dead supporters.
And to this day using their donations to fight his many legal battles.

I remind you his lifetime court battles now number over 4000 , and growing by the day .
He must be the unluckiest innocent person in the world ?
I have no doubt there is plenty of examples from all political stripes , but your man is the reigning world champ !

I assume because you think 95% of the rest of them do it , your cool for him to continue the grift ?

Harold. Just look at your local council. The percentage of flogs with questionable ethics that are attracted to positions of power would be huge.

 

[King Harold]

Harold. Just look at your local council. The percentage of flogs with questionable ethics that are attracted to positions of power would be huge.

The old saying power corrupts is a valid one.
Must admit I take little interest in local politics, even at the federal level.
On the whole both parties here are at least reasonably respectable ???

I have only entered this debate because a Trump like figure is so morally bankrupt, I struggle to think of a worst actor in the democratic western world in my lifetime.
He has highjacked a long standing respected party to the point they have become as morally bankrupt as him !

 

[stefcep]

Yes they did. And they saw the error of their ways when they could no longer attract the waves of post war European migrants that they once did after migration from those traditional catchments began to peter out in the 1970's.

Rubbish. They didn't see the "error of their ways". Post war Eurpopean migration was a massive success. There was zero error to see. The next wave of immigrants were also post-war: Cambodia, Vietnan, Lebanon, Syria. But then for some inexplicable reason it became China and India.

And those that came after from other non European regions did and continue to do exactly that. They may not do it your exacting satisfaction. But the reality is that they want to work, be prosperous and raise their children in peace and quite.

Is that why their employment rates are significantly lower, crime rates are higher, youth crime in particular, school delinquency rates are high. (BTW You can google ot yourself...)

Thats because Food brings people together and is a pretty significant point of difference for what was a mono-culture and a food desert before the various waves of immigration that the nation has seen since WWII.

I asked what else? You go nothing else.

The fact that nation is made up of people who can claim ancestry to over 300 countries and that there are 200 different languages spoken in this country. Regardless of what advocates of a White Australia policy or media hysterics would have us believe. Is a pretty good indication that their ability to assimilate whilst hanging onto aspects of their past and culture is an indication that immigration to this nation is the thing that has and always will define and make it what it is today. Its not without its issues, but its as intrinsic to the fabric of our modern society as jingoism and looking to the mother country for all that is great and good was to the past.

Not all immigrants are the same. Not all cultures and values are compatible. What was good in the past is particular to the people and times of the past.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

Now. Do you want to actually address the issues that a government policy of forced assimilation had on indigenous people their culture and society? This isn't ancient history, nor can it glibly be passed off to an era of colonisation. It's a living memory and although the policy officially ended before my lifetime. I can't say whether it was within yours.

Its the law of evolution: adapt or perish. Literally tens of billions of dollars and countless programs, services, and facilites are spent to help indigenous people. What else do you suggest? Reparations?

Yeah. It is.

Especially when it's benefit is exclusively slanted towards and entrenches a singular and select group of people.

Europeans are not a "singular and select group of people", any more than Asians, South Americans, Africans are. Its insulting to sugest that they are. They have commonalities, but they are not one homogenous group.

People with European heritage. Like me. Somebody who has ancestry in this country going back to 1855. Somebody who had a privileged upbringing. Somebody who has never faced discrimination, in life nor in my career. Somebody who has never experienced a racial taunt. Nor been profiled by a policeman.

Well aren't you lucky, then, because as a white second generation European I had none of your privilege. My parents were poor. Dad worked in abatoir. Mum scaled fish. I suffered discrimination nd overt racism in my life and career, and racial taunts, the earliest memory as a 5 year old. I don't share your guilt. I have had nothing to do with the police because I don't get involved in things and people that make paths that cross with the law. Its amazing how that works.

But I know many that have.

Ever been to a migrant citizenship ceremony and seen the pride and joy that people who are now predominantly from Asian, Middle Eastern, Pacific, South American and other backgrounds take in being able to call themselves Australian as they receive their certificate, plastic flag and wattle?

It's a fantastic and uplighting experience. You should try it some time.

Haha. Try it? I have. AS A PARTICIPANT not as a bystander looking on and feeling good about other people's experiences. I've LIVE IT.

Politicians pander. In other news: Things that touch water get wet and the universe is vast.

The elephant that you speak of is the racism that is never far from the surface in a country and a segment of society that supported a selective immigration policy for decades. A sad demographic that continues to span the political divide, parts of my extended family, circle of friends, workmates and bigfooty.

The elephant is rampant uncontrolled immigration that no-one voted for. The elephant in the room is the housing affordability crisis, the road and PT congestion, the pressures on our health and education systems, the nearly $200 billion debt that future gerenrations will be saddled with to pay for the infrastructure need to to accommodate that policy.

If that makes me an outlier. Then I couldn't be happier.

Unfortnately, you're not an outlier. Intersting you think you could be, but you views are all too common, sadly.

 

[stefcep]

Trump took credit for getting the bill blocked. He said so in a speech in Arizona…. Trump is proud of it!!!!

Please understand that we aren’t putting words into his mouth; he said it’s what he did.

Wait... you beleive everything Trump (or any politician really) Says. News flash. Politicians tell lies.

 

[stefcep]

I’m not blaming the immigrants. I’m blaming governments.
There is no way I believe in a world without passports. I believe in nations. Each nation has it own law, customs and culture. I think the modern political elite believes the this one world idea you’ve just put forward, and is trying to made this happen by by its own unhanded tactics. If they would ask the people, there is no way any peoples of any country would vote away their own country.

By diluting identity eg nations, genders, cultures the elites believe they are creating unity and equality. The opposite is happening. The US is now a divided nation. The UK is a divided nation. Even the Scandi's are being divided by this policy of world homogenization.