Analysis The rebuild of Carlton and Brisbane and their future prospects

[PP34]

No Carlton player is rubbish and can be spoken about negatively.

Good response. Your post history is a barrel of laughs when it comes to Cripps.

You’ve done nothing but downplay his ability since 2016. Nothing more than another Ollie Wines apparently. Limited footballer.

 

[Blue1980]

No Carlton player is rubbish and can be spoken about negatively.

I can give you many many many of our list which are rubbish:

LOB (probably bust)
Kennedy (probably bust)
Casboult (no detail required)
Darcy Lang (recycled dud)
Schumacher (late pick who won’t make it)
Garlett (not up to it)
Lobbe (salary dump dud)
Polson (park footballer)
Fasolo (worth less than what we got him for, which was nothing)
Pickett (injured all the time but crap in all but 2 games he’s played)
Phillips (backup ruck dud)
Pat Kerr (late pick but not up to modern footy)
Finbar O’Dwyer (brought in as bsos’s mate)
Gibbons (tries but very limited)
Hugh Goddard (slow recycled dud)

 

[ManOfClay]

Good response. Your post history is a barrel of laughs when it comes to Cripps.

You’ve done nothing but downplay his ability since 2016. Nothing more than another Ollie Wines apparently. Limited footballer.

You don’t like me because I don’t rate your messiah. Port fans would probably dislike you too for talking down their captain like that.

I’ve never said either player is shit, or even average. My opinion is they don’t have the weapons to be the undisputed best.

But here we go right, you are cracking the shits over three years’ worth of pissiness because I don’t rate Cripps as much as you?

You and most other Carlton supporters invest so much in tearing down people who criticise your club and its players. I get it, you support a truly terrible sporting organisation who aside from brief spurts have been unable to compete in the modern game. Cripps is one ray of light you have and you are absolutely torn if anything should even appear to in some minor way dull that.

All you want is an echo chamber so you can talk about how Carlton will be good, and you’ll have your revenge on those people who said mean things. One day Carlton will be good again, it’s true. No team stays down forever. I know you will cherish that day and if I’m around I’ll cop it. But for now I’m just speaking the reality that hurts you so much.

Laugh at me all you want. It doesn’t change my opinion of your club’s current malaise.

 

[PP34]

You don’t like me because I don’t rate your messiah. Port fans would probably dislike you too for talking down their captain like that.

I’ve never said either player is ****, or even average. My opinion is they don’t have the weapons to be the undisputed best.

But here we go right, you are cracking the shits over three years’ worth of pissiness because I don’t rate Cripps as much as you?

You and most other Carlton supporters invest so much in tearing down people who criticise your club and its players. I get it, you support a truly terrible sporting organisation who aside from brief spurts have been unable to compete in the modern game. Cripps is one ray of light you have and you are absolutely torn if anything should even appear to in some minor way dull that.

All you want is an echo chamber so you can talk about how Carlton will be good, and you’ll have your revenge on those people who said mean things. One day Carlton will be good again, it’s true. No team stays down forever. I know you will cherish that day and if I’m around I’ll cop it. But for now I’m just speaking the reality that hurts you so much.

Laugh at me all you want. It doesn’t change my opinion of your club’s current malaise.

No I just laugh at you going from thread to thread posting the same tired shit about a young Carlton player who rubs you the wrong way for whatever reason. You did it with Cripps and now that he’s proven you wrong you’ve moved onto Curnow.

You cannot admit that you were wrong about Cripps so you continue to downplay his ability despite him proving numerous of your statements from the last three years wrong. Don’t have any issue with someone taking certain players over Cripps but to act like he doesn’t belong in the conversation amongst the game’s best is laughable. Every coach in the AFL would laugh at you.

You said Curnow is athletic and that’s about it. It’s a laughable statement with no basis whatsoever. That sounds like a description of Shaun Hampson. I ask you for some facts to back up your opinion and you bring up his small goal tally so far this year. I bring up what he did last year and you don’t even bother to respond. Just like with Cripps you’re not interested in genuine discussion, you’ve taken a disliking to Curnow or the hype around him and have decided to spend post after post letting everyone know how you don’t rate him. A truly weird way to watch a footy team. You’ve spent at least 10 pages worth of posts downplaying Cripps ability since 2016.

I don’t know why you’re bringing up undisputed best either. Nobody is taking offence at anyone for thinking that Cripps or Curnow aren’t undisputed best.

No Carlton fan wants an echo chamber. If they weren’t interested in opposition opinions they’d simply post on the Carlton board. Some are just fed up with posters like you who spew biased bullshit and in your case you probably do it because Cripps is competition to Bontempelli and Curnow I’m going to guess is competition to Naughton.

 

[ManOfClay]

It’s only biased because you disagree with it.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

It’s only biased because you disagree with it.

99% of footy watchers disagree with you on Cripps

 

[PP34]

It’s only biased because you disagree with it.

Still yet to see anything to prove me wrong.

There is nothing to suggest Cripps isn’t one of the best in the game.

There is nothing to suggest Curnow is athletic and that’s about it.

But you already know that. That’s why you’ve got no actual response and instead attack Carlton supporters for defending the ability of certain players.

 

[wagstaff]

The frustrating thing for Carlton supporters in the Bolton era is that when they're playing their three biggest rivals - Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond - they have always been competitive.

They've beaten the Pies and Dons on multiple occasions and never had a loss that's reached 25 points.

Their record against Richmond is a bit worse but they've pushed Richmond harder at the MCG in the last couple of years than most teams do. Indeed, the highest H&A scores Richmond conceded at the MCG in 2017 & 2018 were against Carlton (Bulldogs equalled them in 2018). Personally speaking, I'm betting the Round 21 clash is going to be another tough struggle.

It just makes their performances this round or against North a couple of weeks back or against Fremantle last year all the more unacceptable. They've shown at the MCG in front of big crowds they can hold their own, but seem to mentally switch off when the expectation and focus is on them.

 

[doppleganger]

I wouldn't get too concerned about Carlton's progress quite yet.

Brisbane's 2018 season
LLLLLLLLWLLLLWWWLLLLWL
Losses by 93, 34 and 26 points their biggest losses in the first nine rounds.

Carlton 2019 season
LLLLWLLLL
Losses by 93, 58 and 44 points their biggest losses in the first nine rounds.

Carlton are improving, and will eventually climb out of the bottom couple.

But the competitive talk and trying to compare to Brisbane 2018 needs some perspective.

The Blues had their worst ever first quarter against Richmond in R1, and then the Tigers just cruised.

They were ‘competitive’ against battling teams Sydney, Suns. Being competitive against battlers isn’t something to hang your hat on. They were embarrassing against North and GWS.

They had a good win against the Dogs, when Bevo decided to play a couple of debutants and no KP players, played a good half against the Hawks, and pushed Collingwood, until the Pies burned them off in the last 10mins.

Carton are more like Brisbane circa 2016 or 2017, when the Lions sides were finishing bottom 2.

That in itself should be damning, that a Brisbane side has forged so much further ahead, but Carlton are only interested in being a development club at the moment. So plenty of Carlton fans appear happy because they have a large number of talented kids (early draft picks) on their list now.

 

[Nunez]

I think the biggest issue with Carlton and their rebuild has only been glanced over. Carltons list is a resounding failure for the simple reason of lacking leadership. Young talent is much more unlikely to develop into good footballers without the right senior leadership, systems and development.

You look at the likes of Thomas, Keizer, Murphy etc and you aren't instilled with a desire to follow them into battle. You don't sit there and watch the Blues play thinking 'great leadership'. You don't look at their young talented draft picks and see very clear, linear development paths outside of a few.

I've seen first hand as a Lions supporter how player development can be stunted without right leadership and am so glad the club invested in senior players who are not only talented but are also strong leaders. Not everybody gets a Lachie Neale or Luke Hodge keen to come to your club, but you needn't look any further than the Suns to see if elite talent isn't there for the taking, you can recruit role players with strong leadership.

Carlton have the talent, but absolutely must recruit on field leaders. Without them, many players will not develop and Carlton will eventually have a player exodus.

 

[ManOfClay]

There is nothing to suggest Cripps isn’t one of the best in the game.

I never said that, you are jumping at shadows. I said he’s not the best, which one blues supporter said.

Do you seriously think me having a few players such as Fyfe, Dangerfield etc as better than Cripps is playing Cripps down?

That’s more on you to be honest. Proves my point you can’t stand Cripps not being put on a pedestal

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I never said that, you are jumping at shadows. I said he’s not the best, which one blues supporter said.

Do you seriously think me having a few players such as Fyfe, Dangerfield etc as better than Cripps is playing Cripps down?

That’s more on you to be honest. Proves my point you can’t stand Cripps not being put on a pedestal

............

 

[LordLucifer]

I keep hearing the phrase "cut too hard" being bandied about in relation to the way the Carlton list has been pruned back and refilled.

Even though I have been calling for a Ground Zero approach to the list for many years, based on the number of young physically undeveloped players being thrown in the deep end of senior footy right now, I'm starting to believe we did go a little too hard too early.

I also think we have been our own worst enemy at times in regards to who we flung and why, who we knocked back from other clubs and the heavy misses with mature age rookies etc.

I'm still strapped in for the ride but gee, I am getting sick of this rollercoaster of form right now, some consistency would allay a lot of fears.

Prior to the 'Bolvagni Alliance', Malthouse and his cronies flung Mitch Robinson & Jeff Garlett for lying to the club about after hours activities. Yes, their behaviour warranted stern discipline from the club but to announce mid-season they would be traded was probably one of the most unprofessional & comical errors I've seen in some time, we got nothing at all for the pair of them. A mature battering ram like Robinson would be a godsend for us right now, surely that situation could have been handled way better than it was.

As part of the Gibbs trade, Jarryd Lyons was offered to us and we knocked him back (there is another school of thought who believe he didn't want to come to us) yet he is playing some solid footy for the Lions in their midfield right now (after a season with the Suns) averaging 21 disposals a game. Lyons and an early first round pick for Gibbs the first time around would of been a good deal for us because we would have picked up a readymade senior player plus the draftee should be approaching 80-100 games now. Instead, SOS stood on principle and waited till the year after to offload Gibbs.

Mullet, O'Shea & Shaw were either finished or not up to it, in fact I'd go further and suggest they were never up to it yet we brought them into the club to supposedly play in the VFL only. Yes, the logic had some merit but I'm still trying to reconcile the fact of why anyone would ever bring a player into the club who was incapable of playing senior footy and having some sort of credible impact ?? Those three were massive liabilities and made us the butt of many a joke from opposition supporters.

There has been a high number of players shown the door who either deserved it based on their output and/or their poor attitude around the club. Whilst Nick Holman & Billy Gowers are now doing well at other clubs, the decision at that time to terminate them was the right one. You can't get them all correct and with the value of hindsight, I'm okay with accepting we may have got those two wrong.

Turning over and rebuilding a list is a delicate balance of talented acquisitions coupled with shrewd trades and/or delistings. The successful clubs never let it ever get to the stage that they need to completely cull their list yet some have had to embark on heavy renovations & restorations along the way.

Sadly, back then Carlton had a poor list with very few bankable assets and the decision to gut the list was the right one, it's all now conjecture as to the manner in which it gets remodelled and reinvented.

Too hard too quick ………….. with hindsight on my side, yeah it probably has been but on the flipside, the sooner you start the sooner you finish.

This current situation is testing even the most ardent of the Carlton faithful right now whilst making us an easy target for the media vultures too. Some would say we have brought it all on ourselves and we deserve it all as well.

Yeah, they are probably correct in that assertion too !!

 

[chunkylover53]

Fadge

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Fox have an article about this today.

Not sure I like the way it's written (or the premise of this thread really) given they're different clubs in different circumstances and there's only so far comparisons will go. That said, they have some decent insights about what's helping Brisbane develop and what's holding Carlton back.

 

[LordLucifer]

For what it's worth, I have also come to the conclusion that Bolton isn't the issue, he can coach and will be successful if persisted with.

It's the manner in which the rebuild has taken place right now that is the cause of the problems. It will be successful but will take two years longer than initially expected to really bear fruit.

 

[Fadge]

Fadge

Surely this can be merged with the other 5 Carlton threads I have on my watchlist?

Can't disagree with much from the OP though. Reckon I'm only one of a number of posters who saw this coming - StevoJenkins, Doppleganger and Lounge Lizard to name a few...

 

[Orange crush]

I agree with your concerns. SOS was too keen on injury prone Giant off cuts .... someone like deBoer could have been picked up for nothing

 

[Ron]

The fastest way for the Blues to move forward is to jettison SOS. He actually has very little idea.
As long he is in charge of anything at that club, the team will continue to be a bottom four fodder team.

 

[Fadge]

Watching Paul Roos On The Couch last night - if he went in there as 'Director of Football', who would last?

Not Bolton, not SOS. He would have Judd's role. Any Assistants worth retaining?

 

[Drewie11]

Watching Paul Roos On The Couch last night - if he went in there as 'Director of Football', who would last?

Not Bolton, not SOS. He would have Judd's role. Any Assistants worth retaining?

David Teague is an assistant they should keep. Would be great to have him back at Adelaide

 

[STPer18]

Recruiting is diabolical. It's as if the Carlton recruiting team only value a player if they were a '1st round draft pick'. Coming to us and taking players like Lang and Smedts seemingly simply because they were taken in the 1st round of their respective draft while there were far more credentialed and higher quality players stuck in the VFL who could have been had just as cheap was hilarious.

It's like SOS just opens up a wikipedia page and filters players by draft position, then goes to work on recruiting all the poorly performed 1st rounders over the previous years.

 

[Ambrosia]

Hard to be too critical as they have definitely aquired a ton of young talent.

Not sure as a supporter I'd like Essendon to ever go down the same path as I think AFL is such a complex team sport that having the best coaching, recruiting and development can give you enough of an advantage to win a premiership without having to endure years in the wilderness.

*Not saying Essendon are close to the best in coaching/development/recruiting just saying I'd rather my club aspire to win that way then what Carlton have done.

 

[Marcel Proust]

I never said that, you are jumping at shadows. I said he’s not the best, which one blues supporter said.

Do you seriously think me having a few players such as Fyfe, Dangerfield etc as better than Cripps is playing Cripps down?

That’s more on you to be honest. Proves my point you can’t stand Cripps not being put on a pedestal

even some carlton fans call him the "best pure inside mid"

thats a pretty specific basket

 

[PP34]

I never said that, you are jumping at shadows. I said he’s not the best, which one blues supporter said.

Do you seriously think me having a few players such as Fyfe, Dangerfield etc as better than Cripps is playing Cripps down?

That’s more on you to be honest. Proves my point you can’t stand Cripps not being put on a pedestal

You said he isn’t at the same level as them which is laughable.

And still waiting for a Curnow response.

You’ve got nothing because your opinion is full of shit.