Analysis The rebuild of Carlton and Brisbane and their future prospects

[Fadge]

I’d say it’s about time Brisbane is removed from the thread title

Or more Brisbane supporters participate in the discussion.

 

[LordLucifer]

Or more Brisbane supporters participate in the discussion.

They might if you let them get a word in.

 

[Big Blood]

Is there any chance of any opposition supporters engaging in a comparative analysis of Brisbane and Carlton's rebuild or are we just going to have pages and pages of people bagging Carlton and Carlton supporters responding?If so can we close the thread or move it?
I for one would be genuinely interested in opposition views on our rebuild as I think we are being overhyped.

Definitely not over-hyped. Brisband has good leadership and direction under Fagan, Hodge etc and a lot of talent on its list. Lost Beams but kept its list together and got in Marcus Adams and Lachie Neale. Last year it won 5, lost 5 by under 2 goals and another 7 by 2-5 goals. You'd expect Brisbane to be nudging the top 8 this year.

For mine Melbourne's is the textbook rebuild. Under Roos & Goodwin they've won an extra 2-3 games every year to go from 17th to 5th in five seasons. Not quite Richmond and Collingwood slingshotting into the GF in one year but impressive for a club that had been on its knees.

Under Fagan Lions have gone for 5 wins in both seasons but last year really improved percentage from 74% to 89% and only got really hammered once or twice. It'd be a surprise if they don't win around win 10 games this year.

 

[doppleganger]

Sure, I just think the CFC have a different timeline in mind to that of opposition supporters. Sacking Bolton on the basis of 2019’s win-loss alone wouldn’t be congruent with the longterm plan that’s been actioned recently.

The idea that 2019 will ever be treated in isolation is something I don’t agree with.

Carlton’s 2019 w/L is linked to how well the build through 16-18 has progressed. If Carlton 2015 crop - Weitering, C.Curnow, Cunningham, Silvagni, McKay - aren’t coming on as hoped the win loss will be poor.

 

[doppleganger]

Is there any chance of any opposition supporters engaging in a comparative analysis of Brisbane and Carlton's rebuild or are we just going to have pages and pages of people bagging Carlton and Carlton supporters responding?If so can we close the thread or move it?
I for one would be genuinely interested in opposition views on our rebuild as I think we are being overhyped.

Brisbane’s list is in much better shape IMO.

Down back they have arguably the best young tall in Andrews who is already an AA squad level player.

They have added Adams for seasoned support, and then also have Gardiner and Walker as depth options.

Hodge the general who will help develop whichever talented young kids they opt to roll through the back line - Witherden, C.Cox, Bailey good options.

Also have D.Rich who provides great attack off HB, might be overtaken if Bailey comes on which is what you want, kids forcing out good senior players.

In the middle again looking like a great mix - Zorko and Neale the two senior studs, supported by senior guys like Christensen, Robinson, Lyons and then the exciting kids headed by McCluggage, Berry, Cutler, Rayner and Starcevic.

Rucks - S.Martin still a gun, and then a group of young project rucks like Smith, O.Mcireny who could compete for second ruck option.

Forwards - arguably one of the best young forward prospects going in Hipwood, McStay is a solid foil...I think Rayner will spend plenty of time across HF like a DeGoey style option. Then have some great smells headed by Cameron, McCarthy and L.Taylor...so again wouldn’t surprise if Taylor is squeezed out of best 22.

That is shaping up as a beautifully balanced squad for 2019, smartly have brought in some best 22 senior players to surround their promising kids.

Can see the Lions further tightening their defensive structure, and the points against will drop below 2000 for the first time since 2009, and this will see them have a % around 100 and probably win around 10 games.

 

[Monkey King]

The idea that 2019 will ever be treated in isolation is something I don’t agree with.

Carlton’s 2019 w/L is linked to how well the build through 16-18 has progressed. If Carlton 2015 crop - Weitering, C.Curnow, Cunningham, Silvagni, McKay - aren’t coming on as hoped the win loss will be poor.

Treated in isolation? No. Treated in context? Yes.

The club understands what it’s just done, and the challenge it’s been for both coach and players. They’ve spoken of stabilising the list in this next stage and getting games into this group as a team. They’re not going to sack Bolton just one season into this stage because he didn’t immediately turn win-loss on it’s head. There would have to be other serious concerns for Carlton to deviate from what has thus far been a patient and deliberate reset.

 

[Mr.X]

Funnily enough, 'under the pump' externally is precisely how I expect 2019 to go regardless of results, if 2018 is any indication. If Adelaide's fall from grace - largely off the back of injury, regardless of cult-camp rumours - can be put down to injury and forgiven, why they decided to use Carlton as poor when it was almost redundantly obvious we were going to be at best just outside bottom 4 anyway before we got smashed by the footy gods is a strikes me as rank opportunism.

Carlton's 2018 season was derailed by injuries, and a lack of confidence.

Word is the new conditioning program is working wonders, expect to see the best 22 on the park more often this season.

That is great for Carlton, and sets the team up for success

 

[Gethelred]

Did you have to bump this thread?

 

[jackess]

Brisbane’s list is in much better shape IMO.

Down back they have arguably the best young tall in Andrews who is already an AA squad level player.

They have added Adams for seasoned support, and then also have Gardiner and Walker as depth options.

Hodge the general who will help develop whichever talented young kids they opt to roll through the back line - Witherden, C.Cox, Bailey good options.

Also have D.Rich who provides great attack off HB, might be overtaken if Bailey comes on which is what you want, kids forcing out good senior players.

In the middle again looking like a great mix - Zorko and Neale the two senior studs, supported by senior guys like Christensen, Robinson, Lyons and then the exciting kids headed by McCluggage, Berry, Cutler, Rayner and Starcevic.

Rucks - S.Martin still a gun, and then a group of young project rucks like Smith, O.Mcireny who could compete for second ruck option.

Forwards - arguably one of the best young forward prospects going in Hipwood, McStay is a solid foil...I think Rayner will spend plenty of time across HF like a DeGoey style option. Then have some great smells headed by Cameron, McCarthy and L.Taylor...so again wouldn’t surprise if Taylor is squeezed out of best 22.

That is shaping up as a beautifully balanced squad for 2019, smartly have brought in some best 22 senior players to surround their promising kids.

Can see the Lions further tightening their defensive structure, and the points against will drop below 2000 for the first time since 2009, and this will see them have a % around 100 and probably win around 10 games.

Very good summation. Are you sure you're a Collingwood supporter?

 

[doppleganger]

Very good summation. Are you sure you're a Collingwood supporter?

Damn straight, still haunted by 02-03!

It is funny, everyone is emotionally invested in their own team...so I get all the Carlton supporters with their optimism and buy-in. I am the same with the Pies.

But by not being invested in opposition teams can just take a look at how two teams are traveling, and clear that Brisbane in last few years have been streets ahead of Carlton in terms of quality mature players they have added to their list...whilst also stockpiling just as many talented kids.

Can see Lions up around 10wins, Carlton will be lucky to get 5.

And if you consider that Carlton and Brisbane were in similar spaces back in 14-15 both hitting rock bottom with not much talent coming through (Lions due to go home 5 killing them, Carlton due to sh1t drafting) it just highlights that Brisbane’s build has been better...they are actually building!!

 

[watchdog1987]

Carlton's 2018 season was derailed by injuries, and a lack of confidence.

Word is the new conditioning program is working wonders, expect to see the best 22 on the park more often this season.

That is great for Carlton, and sets the team up for success

Honestly i have no idea how you can claim that.

You are already the most injured team this pre season and with Kruezer adding himself to that list today

 

[Robertio]

Honestly i have no idea how you can claim that.

You are already the most injured team this pre season and with Kruezer adding himself to that list today

You want to read more than the headlines.

 

[jackess]

I don't think Carlton is too far behind the Lions. Their GWS recruits have under-performed for various reasons but if they come good then both clubs should be pushing the 8 next year.

 

[Fadge]

I don't think Carlton is too far behind the Lions. Their GWS recruits have under-performed for various reasons but if they come good then both clubs should be pushing the 8 next year.

Shirley you can't be serious?

 

[Simba Moyo]

Lions are no doubt ahead at the minute, but we did have a bit of a headstart after the go home five debarkle. Our young guns are starting to hit the necessary amount of experience required to be consistent contributors to help us start pushing up the ladder, and have added quality mature talent with Cameron, Neale and Hodge coaching on field. As my father is a Carlton man I'm excited to see both battle in finals come the roaring 20's

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Shirley you can't be serious?

Hate it, don’t cha.

 

[Dez!]

I don't think Carlton is too far behind the Lions. Their GWS recruits have under-performed for various reasons but if they come good then both clubs should be pushing the 8 next year.

The Blues aren't going from 2 wins and looking deplorable in 2018 to pushing for the 8 in 2019.

 

[Simba Moyo]

The Blues aren't going from 2 wins and looking deplorable in 2018 to pushing for the 8 in 2019.

How many wins are you expecting out if curiousity?

 

[jackess]

The Blues aren't going from 2 wins and looking deplorable in 2018 to pushing for the 8 in 2019.

Thanks but that's not what I said. Next year they could.

 

[doppleganger]

I don't think Carlton is too far behind the Lions. Their GWS recruits have under-performed for various reasons but if they come good then both clubs should be pushing the 8 next year.

Lions had a % of 89, that is a very competitive team. A bit more defensive nous and they should be looking at being a 100%+ team in 2019

Carlton had a % of 59, that is shizen....even back in 2015 they managed a % in mid 60s.

The last team to finish with a % below 60 was Melbourne back in 2013 under Neeld, even the Essendon VFL team managed a % in the 60s!

It took the Dees four years to push for the eight after that....probably realistic for where Carlton’s ‘build’ is at.

If Carlton can push their % into the 70s in 2019 they have done well...think a StK 2018 style season.

 

[jackess]

Lions had a % of 89, that is a very competitive team. A bit more defensive nous and they should be looking at being a 100%+ team in 2019

Carlton had a % of 59, that is shizen....even back in 2015 they managed a % in mid 60s.

The last team to finish with a % below 60 was Melbourne back in 2013 under Neeld, even the Essendon VFL team managed a % in the 60s!

It took the Dees four years to push for the eight after that....probably realistic for where Carlton’s ‘build’ is at.

If Carlton can push their % into the 70s in 2019 they have done well...think a StK 2018 style season.

We also had next to no injuries last year.

 

[doppleganger]

We also had next to no injuries last year.

Even more important for a rebuild, if you have kids who continue to break down...they won’t develop as hoped.

 

[Dez!]

How many wins are you expecting out if curiousity?

If Carlton got to 4-5 wins and a higher percentage like high 70's then they should consider that good progress.

I see them getting 3-4 wins personally.

 

[watchdog1987]

You want to read more than the headlines.

Add Fasolo to that list as well. 7 injuries this Pre season and its Jan. Yes Fasolo’s wasn’t football related

 

[Robertio]

Add Fasolo to that list as well. 7 injuries this Pre season and its Jan. Yes Fasolo’s wasn’t football related

Why do some people get excited when a Carlton player gets injured?. Only Docharty and Picket are long term at the moment.