Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

Who has the better future prospects?

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juss said:
Geelong to me are 2 years "behind" chronologically Richmond's end of the era, what I mean by that is if our last flag was in 2020 and theirs was 2022, they've still got a reasonable element of the same team running around on the list and some are playing somewhat similar levels, similar to what we had in 2022 when we made finals. Comparing 2024 Richmond to 2024 Geelong isn't really a like for like in their peak and decline trajectories, we've well and truly gone/going through it with Cotchin, Riewoldt, Houli, Edwards, Astbury, Grigg, Dimma, etc all leaving, and guys like Prestia and Grimes looking like they've gone on a year too long.

The Cats will have similar over the next year or two with Selwood already leaving, and the ones that wouldn't be too far away in Hawkins, Touhy, Stanley, Duncan, Dangerfield, Blicavs all getting close to retirement / the age decline in form. Then there's the question of does Chris Scott stick around for their rebuild or not.

If you're comparing like for like then the Cats should be around the finals mark this season, but it's the next year or two where they might feel those losses in player and experience.

I dont care which kids they have they aren't replacing all those club greats, it's impossible to do, that's how the cycle works. Projecting 3, 5, 7 years ahead is a throw at a dartboard at best in the AFL. It is so much more complex than "who's kids look better right now" scenario.
Click to expand...

Timing wise both clubs are almost identical. You have just ignored the players Geelong lost. Guys like Taylor, Ablett, Selwood, Smith, Menegola, Henderson and Dahlhaus.

From the 2020 GF Richmond has 15 players still on its list. 11 of them played on the weekend and the other 4 (Martin, Lynch, Nankervis and Graham) would have if available.

Geelong have 16 on their list so almost identical. But definitely Parfitt and probably Bews won't be in the best 22 so we've had to replace just as many.

There are 2 differences in list management since about 2018.

Geelong's hail Mary attempt at a flag was bringing in Cameron and Smith. This was early enough that our best players hadn't declined, they cost far less than Taranto and Hopper and performed far better. It was a massive success.

The other difference is that Geelong have got their recruiting right since 2018 while Richmond absolutely haven't. So we have 9 top 25 draft picks with a combined 208 games. Richmond have 3 with a combined 38 games. 2 of those 3 are Dow and Brown. Dow looks like a near certain bust right now and Brown has had one charity game and still can't make the team in his 3rd season.

The next few years is where the teams are going to diverge. I think both teams at their best this year will be good. But Geelong's depth and young players coming through vastly outstrips Richmond's. So Richmond get a few injuries and are left playing guys like Koschitzke and Dow who have disappointed time and time again. If Geelong get a few injuries it'll open the door for vastly higher rated kids like Clark and O'Sullivan.
 
juss said:
Geelong to me are 2 years "behind" chronologically Richmond's end of the era, what I mean by that is if our last flag was in 2020 and theirs was 2022, they've still got a reasonable element of the same team running around on the list and some are playing somewhat similar levels, similar to what we had in 2022 when we made finals. Comparing 2024 Richmond to 2024 Geelong isn't really a like for like in their peak and decline trajectories, we've well and truly gone/going through it with Cotchin, Riewoldt, Houli, Edwards, Astbury, Grigg, Dimma, etc all leaving, and guys like Prestia and Grimes looking like they've gone on a year too long.

The Cats will have similar over the next year or two with Selwood already leaving, and the ones that wouldn't be too far away in Hawkins, Touhy, Stanley, Duncan, Dangerfield, Blicavs all getting close to retirement / the age decline in form. Then there's the question of does Chris Scott stick around for their rebuild or not.

If you're comparing like for like then the Cats should be around the finals mark this season, but it's the next year or two where they might feel those losses in player and experience.

I dont care which kids they have they aren't replacing all those club greats, it's impossible to do, that's how the cycle works. Projecting 3, 5, 7 years ahead is a throw at a dartboard at best in the AFL. It is so much more complex than "who's kids look better right now" scenario.
Click to expand...
Way too overly simplistic. The geelong premiership team of 2022 was thr oldest in afl/vfl history. We had also just been heavily competing for a flag since 2012 and finally topped it off. Way different circumstances to richmond
 
Last edited:
Just for fun. I got these best 23's from here

www.foxsports.com.au

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

and I have highlighted in red every player over 30.

Geelong
B: Jake Kolodjashnij, Sam de Koning, Zach Guthrie
HB: Jack Henry, Tom Stewart, Jed Bews
C: Max Holmes, Cam Guthrie, Mark Blicavs
HF: Ollie Henry, Jeremy Cameron, Tyson Stengle
F: Gryan Miers, Tom Hawkins, Brad Close
FOLL: Rhys Stanley, Mitch Duncan, Patrick Dangerfield
I/C: Tom Atkins, Gary Rohan, Tanner Bruhn, Shaun Mannagh, Mark O’Connor

Richmond
B: Noah Balta, Dylan Grimes, Nick Vlastuin
HB: Jayden Short, Nathan Broad, Daniel Rioli
C: Kamdyn McIntosh, Dion Prestia, Jack Ross
HF: Liam Baker, Jacob Koschitzke, Dustin Martin
F: Jack Graham, Tom Lynch, Shai Bolton
FOLL: Toby Nankervis, Tim Taranto, Jacob Hopper
I/C: Josh Gibcus, Marlion Pickett, Maurice Rioli Jnr, Sam Banks, Jacob Bauer
 

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RUNVS said:
Just for fun. I got these best 23's from here

www.foxsports.com.au

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

and I have highlighted in red every player over 30.

Geelong
B: Jake Kolodjashnij, Sam de Koning, Zach Guthrie
HB: Jack Henry, Tom Stewart, Jed Bews
C: Max Holmes, Cam Guthrie, Mark Blicavs
HF: Ollie Henry, Jeremy Cameron, Tyson Stengle
F: Gryan Miers, Tom Hawkins, Brad Close
FOLL: Rhys Stanley, Mitch Duncan, Patrick Dangerfield
I/C: Tom Atkins, Gary Rohan, Tanner Bruhn, Shaun Mannagh, Mark O’Connor

Richmond
B: Noah Balta, Dylan Grimes, Nick Vlastuin
HB: Jayden Short, Nathan Broad, Daniel Rioli
C: Kamdyn McIntosh, Dion Prestia, Jack Ross
HF: Liam Baker, Jacob Koschitzke, Dustin Martin
F: Jack Graham, Tom Lynch, Shai Bolton
FOLL: Toby Nankervis, Tim Taranto, Jacob Hopper
I/C: Josh Gibcus, Marlion Pickett, Maurice Rioli Jnr, Sam Banks, Jacob Bauer
Click to expand...
Grimes is a liability at the moment, gone on 18 months too long and we'll be better without him.

Ditto Prestia who will be replaced by Sonsie or Ross.

Broad, Dusty and Lynch are still key players, though Broad is probably fairly easy to replace as a medium defender.
 
Mr Meow said:
You've gotten yourself really confused.

Geelong 2024 already has more integral first 22 players aged 22 or under than Richmond did in 2022.

Richmond has 9 players 25 or under in their best 22 this season. Geelong has 11.

You seem to think Geelong 2024 = Richmond 2022 for the list profile.

You're wrong. Geelong 2024 = Richmond 2024. So the batch of kids should be compared directly.

The bar is actually who finishes higher this season, and then ranking the output of the players in the respective age brackets.

Once again you will reject this, doubling down on your inaccurate line in the sand, as you are, to put it politely, a simpleton. There's not much going on upstairs.
Click to expand...

Um hello we started our rebuild earlier mate we aren’t at the same stage. Like seriously we are 4 years out from our flag you are 2. Do you thinks it’s fair to analyse the clubs that way. F me you just have no integrity or spine for that matter do you.
 
juss said:
Geelong to me are 2 years "behind" chronologically Richmond's end of the era, what I mean by that is if our last flag was in 2020 and theirs was 2022, they've still got a reasonable element of the same team running around on the list and some are playing somewhat similar levels, similar to what we had in 2022 when we made finals. Comparing 2024 Richmond to 2024 Geelong isn't really a like for like in their peak and decline trajectories, we've well and truly gone/going through it with Cotchin, Riewoldt, Houli, Edwards, Astbury, Grigg, Dimma, etc all leaving, and guys like Prestia and Grimes looking like they've gone on a year too long.

The Cats will have similar over the next year or two with Selwood already leaving, and the ones that wouldn't be too far away in Hawkins, Touhy, Stanley, Duncan, Dangerfield, Blicavs all getting close to retirement / the age decline in form. Then there's the question of does Chris Scott stick around for their rebuild or not.

If you're comparing like for like then the Cats should be around the finals mark this season, but it's the next year or two where they might feel those losses in player and experience.

I dont care which kids they have they aren't replacing all those club greats, it's impossible to do, that's how the cycle works. Projecting 3, 5, 7 years ahead is a throw at a dartboard at best in the AFL. It is so much more complex than "who's kids look better right now" scenario.
Click to expand...

Correct, I thought even the Geelong people could grasp this concept. But apparently not because comparing a team 4 years out from their last flag is totally the same as one 2 years out from their last flag. 🥴
 
Cleansweep17 said:
Um hello we started our rebuild earlier mate we aren’t at the same stage. Like seriously we are 4 years out from our flag you are 2. Do you thinks it’s fair to analyse the clubs that way. F me you just have no integrity or spine for that matter do you.
Click to expand...

Says the guy who is blaming a rule for other teams winning premierships, and a rule change for his team not winning them.

Mate if you had any less spine you’d be a f**king earthworm
 
Cleansweep17 said:
Um hello we started our rebuild earlier mate we aren’t at the same stage. Like seriously we are 4 years out from our flag you are 2. Do you thinks it’s fair to analyse the clubs that way. F me you just have no integrity or spine for that matter do you.
Click to expand...
So Richmond's current list is four years into a rebuild?

Frig me. No wonder your team goes multiple decades at a time between Grand Final appearances...
 
juss said:
Grimes is a liability at the moment, gone on 18 months too long and we'll be better without him.

Ditto Prestia who will be replaced by Sonsie or Ross.

Broad, Dusty and Lynch are still key players, though Broad is probably fairly easy to replace as a medium defender.
Click to expand...

About the only good thing about round 1 round 0 was being able to watch all the games.

This view of the mature Richmond players is bizarre. They're not the players they were but they're far from liabilities or easily replaceable based on current performance by the youngsters. Apart from the brain explosion Grimes was good.

Watching the game the worst 4 on the ground by a mile were Dow, Ryan, Koschitzke and Young. Gibcus and Banks were in the next few worst players although given their age and experience you can forgive that.

Grimes was far better than Young or Gibcus. Prestia was far better than Dow. Pickett and McIntosh were far better than Banks. A couple of broken lamp posts would've been better than Ryan or Koschitzke.

On the positives I thought Maurice Rioli was about the only spark you had in the first half and Campbell did some nice things.

But all the Richmond fans wondering why Hardwick, McQualter and now Yze keep selecting the mature guys over the kids got the really obvious answer on the weekend. The mature guys are still pretty good players and the kids right now are miles off it.
 
Footy Smarts said:
Maybe. But will we be bad enough to concede 11 consecutive goals to the mighty Gold Coast Suns?
Click to expand...
Well when does Richmond face the cats in Geelong?

You could do to Richmond what you did to Freo back in late 2018. Give Fremantle Dockers the 1st 3 goals of the game then kicked the next 20-25 goals
 
RUNVS said:
Just for fun. I got these best 23's from here

www.foxsports.com.au

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

and I have highlighted in red every player over 30.

Geelong
B: Jake Kolodjashnij, Sam de Koning, Zach Guthrie
HB: Jack Henry, Tom Stewart, Jed Bews
C: Max Holmes, Cam Guthrie, Mark Blicavs
HF: Ollie Henry, Jeremy Cameron, Tyson Stengle
F: Gryan Miers, Tom Hawkins, Brad Close
FOLL: Rhys Stanley, Mitch Duncan, Patrick Dangerfield
I/C: Tom Atkins, Gary Rohan, Tanner Bruhn, Shaun Mannagh, Mark O’Connor

Richmond
B: Noah Balta, Dylan Grimes, Nick Vlastuin
HB: Jayden Short, Nathan Broad, Daniel Rioli
C: Kamdyn McIntosh, Dion Prestia, Jack Ross
HF: Liam Baker, Jacob Koschitzke, Dustin Martin
F: Jack Graham, Tom Lynch, Shai Bolton
FOLL: Toby Nankervis, Tim Taranto, Jacob Hopper
I/C: Josh Gibcus, Marlion Pickett, Maurice Rioli Jnr, Sam Banks, Jacob Bauer
Click to expand...

How many of those players for Geelong are irreplaceable?
I would say Dangerfield, Cameron, Stewart, Hawkins are probably never going to be seen again for 10-20 years but all the rest will be replaced the moment they announce their retirement. In fact, Stanley, Bews, Rohan, have been up and down throughout their careers.
Duncan & Blicavs have been excellent players but similarly to Kieran Jack or Ryan O'Keefe, these players come and go by the wayside.
 
My Tilly said:
How many of those players for Geelong are irreplaceable?
I would say Dangerfield, Cameron, Stewart, Hawkins are probably never going to be seen again for 10-20 years but all the rest will be replaced the moment they announce their retirement. In fact, Stanley, Bews, Rohan, have been up and down throughout their careers.
Duncan & Blicavs have been excellent players but similarly to Kieran Jack or Ryan O'Keefe, these players come and go by the wayside.
Click to expand...

I agree there, but the problem is weight of numbers. It isn't easy to replace half your best 23 in the space of 3 years.

Also need to say that saying "best 23" feels weird.
 
My Tilly said:
How many of those players for Geelong are irreplaceable?
I would say Dangerfield, Cameron, Stewart, Hawkins are probably never going to be seen again for 10-20 years but all the rest will be replaced the moment they announce their retirement. In fact, Stanley, Bews, Rohan, have been up and down throughout their careers.
Duncan & Blicavs have been excellent players but similarly to Kieran Jack or Ryan O'Keefe, these players come and go by the wayside.
Click to expand...

Danger hasn't been top 10 in the B&F since 2020 so we've replaced the consistently brilliant Danger. Since then he's been occasionally brilliant.

Blicavs I think will have the biggest impact. He's just huge for our defensive structure and that second ruck role is a nightmare to get right. Almost every other second ruck in the league is either a terrible ruck or terrible in any position except ruck.

And we were looking for a competent ruckman for many years before Stanley came good. Conway looks incredibly promising but there aren't any guarantees.

There's no secret to this and you don't replace players like for like. You've just got to recruit and develop good players and you'll be a good team.

And the signs are really good for our young players. There's no reason guys like Clark, Holmes, SDK, etc can't be AA quality players and in 10 years we can be saying "but these guys are irreplaceable" once again.
 

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RUNVS said:
I agree there, but the problem is weight of numbers. It isn't easy to replace half your best 23 in the space of 3 years.

Also need to say that saying "best 23" feels weird.
Click to expand...

Stewart signed until 2027, and started playing at 23. In terms of strain on body, he's only 25. Could easily see him playing well into his 30's.

Cameron similar in that he has the lean physique and training ethic to probably play for a while yet too.

Blics could play for another few years given his athletic nature and ridiculous fitness levels, but the rest, are gone by the end of next year, IMO.

That gives us a side something like this heading into 2026 - Kolo gone/replaced too.

B: J. Henry, SDK, O'Connor
HB: Zuthrie, C. O'Sullivan, T. Stewart
C: Blics, T. Atkins , Miers
FO: Conway, Holmes, Bruhn,
HF: O. Henry, J. Cameron, Dempsey
F: Stengle, S. Neale, Close
INT: T. Atkins, J. Clark, Bowes, Knevitt, Mannagh

I mean for a side in a rebuild, with this side being the bones of our list before any drafting/FA or trade acquisitions, it honestly just doesn't feel that bad.

Even if we bottom out for the first time in our history, there's a fair bit to work with there while we add to that list over the coming years. Also a side without:

Danger, Hawkins, Stanley, Rohan, Duncan, Bews, Kolo, C. Guthrie and Parfitt (who I expect to be traded or delisted), in it.

Midfield is the big hole, but defence and forward lines are pretty young, with another KPF to replace Cameron, and a half back to replace Stewart (could be Holmes in the future, who knows?).

Point is, culture, system, trading, drafting, coaching staff and training standards, all play a pretty decent part in determining whether or not a side can bounce back with a half decent squad. I don't see this side as Finals worthy, but I also don't see it as spoon-worthy either. Time will tell, but I'm pretty happy the direction we've gone in post 2021: concerning youth and not topping up.
 
RUNVS said:
I agree there, but the problem is weight of numbers. It isn't easy to replace half your best 23 in the space of 3 years.

Also need to say that saying "best 23" feels weird.
Click to expand...

We replaced 8 of our best 22 from the 2020 GF to the 2022 prelim (which was our best side before Holmes was injured and missed the GF). It didn't seem to hurt us too much.
 
Footy Smarts said:
Danger hasn't been top 10 in the B&F since 2020 so we've replaced the consistently brilliant Danger. Since then he's been occasionally brilliant.

Blicavs I think will have the biggest impact. He's just huge for our defensive structure and that second ruck role is a nightmare to get right. Almost every other second ruck in the league is either a terrible ruck or terrible in any position except ruck.

And we were looking for a competent ruckman for many years before Stanley came good. Conway looks incredibly promising but there aren't any guarantees.

There's no secret to this and you don't replace players like for like. You've just got to recruit and develop good players and you'll be a good team.

And the signs are really good for our young players. There's no reason guys like Clark, Holmes, SDK, etc can't be AA quality players and in 10 years we can be saying "but these guys are irreplaceable" once again.
Click to expand...

I can't see us getting another player of similar output to what Dangerfield produced between 16-20 for a very long time.
Essentially, if you could reverse time and plomp a 26 year old Dangerfield into our current midfield, we are not only making the finals, we are a genuine chance at top 4 again.
 
RUNVS said:
Just for fun. I got these best 23's from here

www.foxsports.com.au

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams

Swans’ trade raid fills clear void; will Cats’ draft surprise pay off early? AFL predicted Rd 1 teams
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

and I have highlighted in red every player over 30.

Geelong
B: Jake Kolodjashnij, Sam de Koning, Zach Guthrie
HB: Jack Henry, Tom Stewart, Jed Bews
C: Max Holmes, Cam Guthrie, Mark Blicavs
HF: Ollie Henry, Jeremy Cameron, Tyson Stengle
F: Gryan Miers, Tom Hawkins, Brad Close
FOLL: Rhys Stanley, Mitch Duncan, Patrick Dangerfield
I/C: Tom Atkins, Gary Rohan, Tanner Bruhn, Shaun Mannagh, Mark O’Connor

Richmond
B: Noah Balta, Dylan Grimes, Nick Vlastuin
HB: Jayden Short, Nathan Broad, Daniel Rioli
C: Kamdyn McIntosh, Dion Prestia, Jack Ross
HF: Liam Baker, Jacob Koschitzke, Dustin Martin
F: Jack Graham, Tom Lynch, Shai Bolton
FOLL: Toby Nankervis, Tim Taranto, Jacob Hopper
I/C: Josh Gibcus, Marlion Pickett, Maurice Rioli Jnr, Sam Banks, Jacob Bauer
Click to expand...
Bews isn't best 23 and Rohan is out for the first month, facing a struggle to get back in. We'll also be seeing plenty of Clark in Guthrie's absence and Scott has given an indication he will feature heavily this season.

So realistically there are 8 players 30 or over in Geelong's best 22. There are also 8 for Richmond until Grimes and co are pushed out.

Also weird to draw the line at "over 30" rather than 30 or older. In this case it removes Vlastuin and McIntosh.
 
Cleansweep17 said:
Um hello we started our rebuild earlier mate we aren’t at the same stage. Like seriously we are 4 years out from our flag you are 2. Do you thinks it’s fair to analyse the clubs that way. F me you just have no integrity or spine for that matter do you.
Click to expand...
We've already replaced as many veterans since the 2020 grand final as Richmond have. Ablett, Selwood, Taylor, Henderson, Menegola, Dahlhaus and then you can include Smith who was recruited a year later. Bews isn't best 22 and Tuohy/Rohan now have fringe roles.

Compared to the 2020 GF our round 1 lineup will have Close, Stengle, Z.Guthrie, Holmes, O.Henry, Bruhn, Clark, Dempsey and potentially Bowes (injury cloud). Mannagh, Mullin, Conway and Neale will likely be added next season. That's 9 new faces, soon to be 13.

Compared to the 2020 GF Richmond had Taranto, Hopper, Young, Gibcus, Banks, MRJ, Ryan, Kozzy, Campbell and Dow as potential best 22. That's 10 new faces but 2 will come out for Lynch and Martin.

I have a strong suspicion we have pumped more games into our list of players there than Richmond have with theirs. It's only Taranto and Hopper - both traded in - that have a lot of games in the bank.
 
Mr Meow said:
We've already replaced as many veterans since the 2020 grand final as Richmond have. Ablett, Selwood, Taylor, Henderson, Menegola, Dahlhaus and then you can include Smith who was recruited a year later. Bews isn't best 22 and Tuohy/Rohan now have fringe roles.

Compared to the 2020 GF our round 1 lineup will have Close, Stengle, Z.Guthrie, Holmes, O.Henry, Bruhn, Clark, Dempsey and potentially Bowes (injury cloud). Mannagh, Mullin, Conway and Neale will likely be added next season. That's 9 new faces, soon to be 13.

Compared to the 2020 GF Richmond had Taranto, Hopper, Young, Gibcus, Banks, MRJ, Ryan, Kozzy, Campbell and Dow as potential best 22. That's 10 new faces but 2 will come out for Lynch and Martin.

I have a strong suspicion we have pumped more games into our list of players there than Richmond have with theirs. It's only Taranto and Hopper - both traded in - that have a lot of games in the bank.
Click to expand...

This is going to be fun to revisit at the end of the year when you miss finals again. I wonder what excuse you’ll make given you have the best talent and recruiting staff the world has ever seen.
 
Cleansweep17 said:
This is going to be fun to revisit at the end of the year when you miss finals again. I wonder what excuse you’ll make given you have the best talent and recruiting staff the world has ever seen.
Click to expand...
If Cats miss finals so what? This team has played finals 17 out of the past 20 years, netting 4 premierships*; 6 GF appearances; 13 PF's.

*EQUAL MOST WITH HAWTHORN IN 21st CENTURY
 
Footy Smarts said:
About the only good thing about round 1 round 0 was being able to watch all the games.

This view of the mature Richmond players is bizarre. They're not the players they were but they're far from liabilities or easily replaceable based on current performance by the youngsters. Apart from the brain explosion Grimes was good.

Watching the game the worst 4 on the ground by a mile were Dow, Ryan, Koschitzke and Young. Gibcus and Banks were in the next few worst players although given their age and experience you can forgive that.

Grimes was far better than Young or Gibcus. Prestia was far better than Dow. Pickett and McIntosh were far better than Banks. A couple of broken lamp posts would've been better than Ryan or Koschitzke.

On the positives I thought Maurice Rioli was about the only spark you had in the first half and Campbell did some nice things.

But all the Richmond fans wondering why Hardwick, McQualter and now Yze keep selecting the mature guys over the kids got the really obvious answer on the weekend. The mature guys are still pretty good players and the kids right now are miles off it.
Click to expand...
A lot being read into one game. How many first rounds go like that. Carlton were the same as Richmond in the first half, woeful. They got up, and Richmond kicked 7 or 8 in a row to be a few goals behind before Grimes stupid 50m and Broad's back pedal into the points gave them 2 gimme goals to kill any momentum.

Grimes had 8 disposals @ 8 metres gained per disposal! If I stand still long enough something might happen,
King kicked 5, 4 at half time, I could have kicked 4 the way the ball came down. One was about as soft a free as a forward will ever get. One was on Gibcus, so Young stuck to his job. Gibcus played his first game in 18 months, so could cut him a bit of slack.
Prestia should be better than Dow, he's been a great player and Dow was set against Rowell who will towel up plenty of sides this year. No.1 draft pic for a reason. Dow is just a few games into his career as a mid. Hasn't been easy to break into a midfield of Prestia, Cotchin, Edwards, Martin, Bolton, Lambert. He certainly didn't look a bust as our best mid vs Port's strong midfield last year. Writing a young player off after one game. Ryan and Kosi will not be there with Lynch. He and Balta, who looked pretty good there at times but for a case of the fumbles. Nankervis is a big in, and Martin not a bad one either.

Some good talent playing VFL also. As you note, Campbell looked pretty sharp, and he played a total of 5 VFL games last year due to injuries, if you aren't watching you don't know them.
 
Daka said:
I know this might sound like a big call to make to the outsiders but Tom Brown & James Trezise imo could easily replace Grimes & Broad.
There form is always good in the VFL & they didn't look out of place last year in the Port Adelaide game.
Click to expand...

It does seem like a big call.

It would be much more convincing to us outsiders if these guys could actually get a game first and hold their spot before claiming they could "easily replace" very good but ageing multiple premiership players.

If I said that Ted Clohesy could easily replace Cam Guthrie you'd rightly think I was nuts. But Clohesy, Brown and Trezise all debuted in the last round last year and only got a game because it was a dead rubber and half the team had been sent off for surgery or retired.

Come the new season none of them are being selected despite a handful of injuries which suggests they're not that close to the best 22.

All the evidence is that these guys right now aren't AFL quality. In time they might be. But it's a massive step from that to replacing guys like Broad or Grimes (or Guthrie).
 
Sttew said:
If Cats miss finals so what? This team has played finals 17 out of the past 20 years, netting 4 premierships*; 6 GF appearances; 13 PF's.

*EQUAL MOST WITH HAWTHORN IN 21st CENTURY
Click to expand...

Did you forget the topic of the thread mate? What do you mean so what? 🤣

And again shortening the goal posts to make Geelong look more successful is just sad. Over the history of the game Geelong is mediocre. 10 flags is just an awful return for a foundation club. And it will be 10 flags for the next 40 years too.
 
Footy Smarts said:
It does seem like a big call.

It would be much more convincing to us outsiders if these guys could actually get a game first and hold their spot before claiming they could "easily replace" very good but ageing multiple premiership players.

If I said that Ted Clohesy could easily replace Cam Guthrie you'd rightly think I was nuts. But Clohesy, Brown and Trezise all debuted in the last round last year and only got a game because it was a dead rubber and half the team had been sent off for surgery or retired.

Come the new season none of them are being selected despite a handful of injuries which suggests they're not that close to the best 22.

All the evidence is that these guys right now aren't AFL quality. In time they might be. But it's a massive step from that to replacing guys like Broad or Grimes (or Guthrie).
Click to expand...
Legit can't understand how they get No AFL experience both have only played 1 AFL game and Trezise won the VFL B&F last season.
In that 1 game they did play they both looked solid players how are we not getting games into them? I understand Grimes has a lot of browny points from past performances but he has been a shell for 2 years.

Broad's form has not been much better lately was crap most of 2nd half of the year.
Vlastuin seems the only untouchable back there.

We have holes back/ midfield mix not right/ forward is a concern not sold on Balta forward, Koschitzke was obviously depth for Lynch.
 

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