Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[Keeper]

They're not retiring any time soon are they, though? They addressed where the void was age-wise in our list. Take the 25-26 year olds out and there is basically no experience on the list once the 30+ers retire. Players that will see though the development of every current 18-21 year old for the next 5-8 years are important too. The list will keep getting younger year on year for the next few.

Still don't think your list is in that dissimilar of a state to Richmond's. For me, when Hawkins and Cameron are gone, everything falls apart and it won't be easy to fix.

Guys like Henry, Bruhn, Bowes and Knevitt aren't really the types you can build a Premiership contending team around.

 

[PhatBoy]

You are easily impressed.

I remember when it was 2/11 finals wins at one point. That’s as successful at choking as it gets.

Not as easily as you.

You think missing finals and maintaining a clean record is better than making them and losing them.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Still don't think your list is in that dissimilar of a state to Richmond's. For me, when Hawkins and Cameron are gone, everything falls apart and it won't be easy to fix.

Guys like Henry, Bruhn, Bowes and Knevitt aren't really the types you can build a Premiership contending team around.

Falcon mate - you’re so transparent.

 

[Mr Meow]

Still don't think your list is in that dissimilar of a state to Richmond's. For me, when Hawkins and Cameron are gone, everything falls apart and it won't be easy to fix.

Guys like Henry, Bruhn, Bowes and Knevitt aren't really the types you can build a Premiership contending team around.

The thread topic is merely who has been doing a better job preparing for the future, more specifically since they met in the 2020 grand final. So players drafted/acquired around then or more recently are all fair game for this discussion. Players who were fairly new to the team as well. That's why 25 and under I think is a reasonable cut off point - it gives you an outlook on what the next 6/7 years could look like. But I accept Taranto and Hopper will be important for Richmond so let's move it up to 26.

Picking the best 22 for let's say 2027 or 2028:

FB: Young Gibcus Trezise
HB: Banks Miller Ralphsmith

C: Ross Taranto Sonsie
FOL: Ryan Hopper Bolton

HF: Mansell Kozzy MRJ
FF: Cumberland Balta Campbell

IC: Dow Coulthard Bauer Clarke

vs

FB: J.Henry De Koning Mullin
HB: Humphries O'Sullivan Z.Guthrie

C: Dempsey Clark Bowes
FOL: Conway Bruhn Holmes

HF: Miers Jeka Close
FF: O.Henry Neale Stengle

IC: Mannagh Parfitt Knevitt Clohesy

Richmond with the edge in midfield but Taranto/Hopper would already be 30, with Bolton not far behind. Geelong better stocked elsewhere. Both sides have areas to address in the next few drafts or by FA.

 

[PhatBoy]

You are easily impressed.

I remember when it was 2/11 finals wins at one point. That’s as successful at choking as it gets.

P.S. at least get the underwhelming finals return number correct if you are going to try and throw stones.

The worst sequence of results we ever had in 11 finals was 3 wins and 8 losses, starting from the elimination final in 2012.

You don’t remember when it was 9/11 finals losses at one point.

You remember reading Meteoric Rise posting the figure 9-2 repeatedly, because he used to quote the same statistic incorrectly.

 

[Mr Meow]

P.S. at least get the underwhelming finals return number correct if you are going to try and throw stones.

The worst sequence of results we ever had in 11 finals was 3 wins and 8 losses, starting from the elimination final in 2012.

You don’t remember when it was 9/11 finals losses at one point.

You remember reading Meteoric Rise posting the figure 9-2 repeatedly, because he used to quote the same statistic incorrectly.

In Falcon's ratio-loving eyes it is better (hypothetically) to win 2 finals and lose 1 over a 20 year period (no premierships) than it is to win 24 and lose 20 (4 premierships) like Geelong has since 2004. If Gold Coast win their first ever final they will temporarily be the greatest finals side in history.

Richmond have gone 10-6 in that time. If they were the 7th-8th best side a few more times than 9th-16th, they'd be 50/50 in finals. Avoiding finals thankfully protects this record and so I'm sure Falcon is hoping for about 20 years out of finals until they maybe, potentially, perhaps have a side that could win a premiership again.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Bowes is also a very average player. Gold Coast were desperate to get rid of him for a reason.

Bowes showed more last year than I expected for a bloke who was turfed like that. And he had niggling calf issues.

At the risk of overrating practice games he looked great against Carlton. It's probably too much to expect the salary dump guy to become a genuinely good player but he looks capable of being a solid role player at the very least. I've seen plenty more limited footballers than him be solid contributors.

 

[PhatBoy]

In Falcon's ratio-loving eyes it is better (hypothetically) to win 2 finals and lose 1 over a 20 year period (no premierships) than it is to win 24 and lose 20 (4 premierships) like Geelong has since 2004. If Gold Coast win their first ever final they will temporarily be the greatest finals side in history.

Richmond have gone 10-6 in that time. If they were the 7th-8th best side a few more times than 9th-16th, they'd be 50/50 in finals. Avoiding finals thankfully protects this record and so I'm sure Falcon is hoping for about 20 years out of finals until they maybe, potentially, perhaps have a side that could win a premiership again.

It’s the same as his goal kicking rationale. It’s better to kick 1.0 than to kick 6.5

 

[Cleansweep17]

P.S. at least get the underwhelming finals return number correct if you are going to try and throw stones.

The worst sequence of results we ever had in 11 finals was 3 wins and 8 losses, starting from the elimination final in 2012.

You don’t remember when it was 9/11 finals losses at one point.

You remember reading Meteoric Rise posting the figure 9-2 repeatedly, because he used to quote the same statistic incorrectly.

Oooo nooo not 2/11, 3/11. Big deal, I knew you guys didn’t rate finals but going another level and being impressed at failing them is sick.

 

[Cleansweep17]

What, you mean when you were abandoned by someone leaving for greener pastures to be replaced by someone unproven?

The rebuild only did start once Dimma left. Before then he was more keen on topping up.

By default a rebuild is assessed by how many new players (with plenty of years left) have been integrated into the best 22. At best, Richmond are tracking side-by-side with Geelong on this measure and are potentially falling behind. The ones Geelong have integrated have more runs on the board too.

No that’s your definition. Delusional as usual.

Be honest we all know it. You overlooked replacing the coach as part of the rebuild phase. It’s ok little one. I’ll let you have another go.

 

[Keeper]

The thread topic is merely who has been doing a better job preparing for the future, more specifically since they met in the 2020 grand final. So players drafted/acquired around then or more recently are all fair game for this discussion. Players who were fairly new to the team as well. That's why 25 and under I think is a reasonable cut off point - it gives you an outlook on what the next 6/7 years could look like. But I accept Taranto and Hopper will be important for Richmond so let's move it up to 26.

Picking the best 22 for let's say 2027 or 2028:

FB: Young Gibcus Trezise
HB: Banks Miller Ralphsmith

C: Ross Taranto Sonsie
FOL: Ryan Hopper Bolton

HF: Mansell Kozzy MRJ
FF: Cumberland Balta Campbell

IC: Dow Coulthard Bauer Clarke

vs

FB: J.Henry De Koning Mullin
HB: Humphries O'Sullivan Z.Guthrie

C: Dempsey Clark Bowes
FOL: Conway Bruhn Holmes

HF: Miers Jeka Close
FF: O.Henry Neale Stengle

IC: Mannagh Parfitt Knevitt Clohesy

Richmond with the edge in midfield but Taranto/Hopper would already be 30, with Bolton not far behind. Geelong better stocked elsewhere. Both sides have areas to address in the next few drafts or by FA.

I don't see the point in trying to name best 22 sides for 2027/2028 right now because there are going to be a lot of incomings and outgoings between now and then.
If you were to tell me those would literally be their teams for 2027, I would mark them both huge favourites for the wooden spoon. Neither side has a genuine A-Grade point-of-difference type player within their youth ranks besides maybe Max Holmes. In Geelong's case, going from Hawkins and Cameron as the key-forwards to Jeka and Neale is pretty grim.

Richmond obviously made a big mistake trading the farm for both Taranto and Hopper because the timing was so poor.

Overall I just see two clubs with an urgent need to replenish their youth stocks.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Not as easily as you.

You think missing finals and maintaining a clean record is better than making them and losing them.

4 in 16 is trash, well for real clubs anyway.

But it’s cute seeing you so happy over something so small.

 

[Mr Meow]

No that’s your definition. Delusional as usual.

Be honest we all know it. You overlooked replacing the coach as part of the rebuild phase. It’s ok little one. I’ll let you have another go.

You do realise just calling people delusional, when that is the consensus everyone on that site has about you, doesn't make it so? At least try presenting a fact with your argument every now and again.

Your definition of a rebuild progression is how long it was since your last flag, for crying out loud. So GWS are still rebuilding from over a decade ago.

 

[STPer18]

4 in 16 is trash, well for real clubs anyway.

But it’s cute seeing you so happy over something so small.

There are only two clubs so far that have managed 4 flags in the 21st century. One of them is Geelong, and one of them isn't Richmond. It's such a weird thing to constantly bring up Geelong's 4 flags - if I didn't know any better I'd say a lot of the obsession stems from them.

 

[Cleansweep17]

In Falcon's ratio-loving eyes it is better (hypothetically) to win 2 finals and lose 1 over a 20 year period (no premierships) than it is to win 24 and lose 20 (4 premierships) like Geelong has since 2004. If Gold Coast win their first ever final they will temporarily be the greatest finals side in history.

Richmond have gone 10-6 in that time. If they were the 7th-8th best side a few more times than 9th-16th, they'd be 50/50 in finals. Avoiding finals thankfully protects this record and so I'm sure Falcon is hoping for about 20 years out of finals until they maybe, potentially, perhaps have a side that could win a premiership again.

Nah it’s just a fact choking is a bad thing in sports.

Just like it’s a fact that GAS would be seen as a better finals player if the 1989 GF was his last final. He was that dogshit in the rest that it immortalised him as the biggest waste of talent in the history of the game.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Falcon mate - you’re so transparent.

He’s not me

Not as savage

 

[PhatBoy]

Oooo nooo not 2/11, 3/11. Big deal, I knew you guys didn’t rate finals but going another level and being impressed at failing them is sick.

I just think it’s funny because you get your intel in this case not from ‘remembering’ but from reading another poster here, and that you’d rather miss finals altogether than blot your record

 

[Cleansweep17]

I just think it’s funny because you get your intel in this case not from ‘remembering’ but from reading another poster here, and that you’d rather miss finals altogether than blot your record

You lost so many finals that I lost count. Sorry

 

[Cleansweep17]

There are only two clubs so far that have managed 4 flags in the 21st century. One of them is Geelong, and one of them isn't Richmond. It's such a weird thing to constantly bring up Geelong's 4 flags - if I didn't know any better I'd say a lot of the obsession stems from them.

Come back to me when you’ve done a 5 in 14 or 4 in 8. Until then you are minnows.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

He’s not me

Not as savage

“He’s not me”.

Do you really think you’re fooling anyone?

Just lol.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You do realise just calling people delusional, when that is the consensus everyone on that site has about you, doesn't make it so? At least try presenting a fact with your argument every now and again.

Your definition of a rebuild progression is how long it was since your last flag, for crying out loud. So GWS are still rebuilding from over a decade ago.

Where did you get that from?

 

[Mr Meow]

Nah it’s just a fact choking is a bad thing in sports.

Just like it’s a fact that GAS would be seen as a better finals player if the 1989 GF was his last final. He was that dogshit in the rest that it immortalised him as the biggest waste of talent in the history of the game.

Ablett scored more goals per game in finals than Dunstall, a permanent full forward in a much better team. Ablett only played one finals series in his 20s, too.

64 goals in 16 finals being "dogshit" is a pathetic new low for you, Falcon.

 

[southern_crusher]

Surely i didnt just read that a general poster on a forum would walk into a grand final side and atleast take 2-3 marks.

 

[southern_crusher]

Playing on SOS

Yeah. You read that right.

Among his other gems have been:

- despite the first hand testimony of literally every teammate GAS ever had, his fitness was poor based on a picture he found on Google images of Sr with love handles

- he was a poor finals player in general after the 89 GF despite averaging 4 goals a game across his finals career

- he was a poor contested mark

- full forwards can’t be any good if they aren’t deadly accurate and they aren’t taking contested marks. Ie: if they are kicking 5.5 and they are getting all their ball uncontested (so in other words leaving their opponent in their wake) they are inferior to someone kicking 3.0 who has to earn their ball through contested marks.

It’s a festival of logic when Falcon arrives after another day at the Masonic Lodge

Look I don't like GAS as a man but to say that about his footballing ability is completely insane. Whoever that poster is i hope he gets the help he needs.

 

[Fadge]

No that’s your definition. Delusional as usual.

Be honest we all know it. You overlooked replacing the coach as part of the rebuild phase. It’s ok little one. I’ll let you have another go.

Huh?

So Essendon never had any rebuilds between 1982 and 2005, despite having three separate iterations of contending for (and winning) premierships, because they had the same coach all the way through?