Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[PhatBoy]

Tigers fans need to remember that a lot of the blowback involved in these threads stems from the whole conclusion to the finals trilogy where you more than earned the right to brag - but where it essentially wrapped up with ‘we’ve broken you, the cliff is here Cats, and it will be a long time before you come back.’

A premiership and two prelims later, we already have cycled a whole bunch of young players - better young ones than at any point through the last dozen years since Selwood and Hawkins were in their early 20s - and it’s the Tigers themselves who have fallen down that cliff, so there is naturally going to be a bit of ‘well hang on, you were saying?’

 

[Boxhead_31]

Huh.

4th consecutive year without a finals win, about to lose a handful of your best 10 players, and not a single player in the U22 side?

Things are looking pretty Grim at Tigerland...

Edit: also, not a single player in the top 40 players under 24 years old that was recently published?

Oh no.

Also losing Brendan Gale

 

[TigerTime88]

A lot of Geelong's credit needs to go to how welll Cameron and Danger are playing well into their 30s. Both excellent the other night and don't show signs of slowing down. Obviously sprinkled with some young talent as well.

Riewoldt, Cotch and even Dusty this year really dropped away in performance.

 

[Boxhead_31]

A lot of Geelong's credit needs to go to how welll Cameron and Danger are playing well into their 30s. Both excellent the other night and don't show signs of slowing down. Obviously sprinkled with some young talent as well.

Riewoldt, Cotch and even Dusty this year really dropped away in performance.

It is almost as if it was planned

 

[Mr Meow]

A lot of Geelong's credit needs to go to how welll Cameron and Danger are playing well into their 30s. Both excellent the other night and don't show signs of slowing down. Obviously sprinkled with some young talent as well.

Riewoldt, Cotch and even Dusty this year really dropped away in performance.

Dangerfield absolutely. An inside midfielder who has exploited burst acceleration simply shouldn't be elite at 34-35 years of age.

Cameron being very good at 31 is expected. Riewoldt turned 31 in 2019.

Players like Duncan, Tuohy, Stanley, Blicavs and Bews have dropped off a fair bit compared to their peak but can still do a job. We have those "Riewoldt, Cotchin, Dusty - cooked" players anyway - Hawkins and Cam Guthrie.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Enjoy your spoon

We will.

 

[Grrr]

It is almost as if it was planned

You can't plan for luck. Danger is 34, most are long gone or should have by then. He still has his greatest asset, pace. Good on him. Cameron is only 31, so plenty left in the tank. But if he had missed the last two years as Lynch had, who is only 6 months older, things might be a bit different.

But knowing Geelong, they'd patch the hole. We tried with Folau, (good before knee reco) Fawcett (draft - out all year with back) and Grey (midseason - ready to play first game, does a hammy with 2 minutes to go in the VFL, season over).

 

[TheEscapeClub]

All credit to Geelong, goes to show if you have the right people in the right positions (coaching, recruiting etc) and stability in the organisation, you are probably ahead of like 75% of the rest of the competition at any one time.c

Even if you make the argument of downplaying the opposition (Port choking), you can't deny how much confidence it would give the Geelong group having now made a prelim with a significantly different team from the 2022 flag.

I'm confident Tigers will come good, it's just we are going in a vastly different path with so many unproven people (coach and players). We don't know if Yze can coach yet. In theory, with the right people around him, with a full list to choose from and without the Gold Coast offer looming, Dimma could well have kept us thereabouts for a few more years. Dimma talked about doing a "Rebuild on the run" but he could his words twisted like Biden and what he meant to say was "Run from a rebuild."

We have our rookie coach, even with a full injury list, who is to say he would have been able to do significantly better? Is he a master tactician? NFI.

It's critical that this draft to us is what 2001 was to Geelong. Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Ablett, Playfair is who they took and some are immortals of the club. If we are going to successful rebuild, we have to nail these picks, won't get another opportunity like this.

1999 - Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, Cameron Ling, Corey Enright.

Hawthorn - 2001 - Luke Hodge, Campbell Brown, Sam Mitchell and 2004 - Jarryd Roughead, Lance Franklin, Jordan Lewis, Clinton Young

You need to nail a couple.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Wel will.

View attachment 2103635

You might get lucky and have another 2004.

1 - Brett Deledio - priority for being shit.
4 - Richard Tambling
12 - Danny Meyer
16 - Adam Pattison
20 - Dean Polo
36 - Luke McGuane
52 - Dean Limbach
65 - Mark Graham

Traded out Ottens for those 12 and 16 picks.

Traded Aaron Fiora to St Kilda for Troy Simmonds

Trent Knoble in the pre-season draft

Rookie Draft - Will Thursfield

Rookie Elevation - Kelvin Moore

We can only hope.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

A lot of Geelong's credit needs to go to how welll Cameron and Danger are playing well into their 30s. Both excellent the other night and don't show signs of slowing down. Obviously sprinkled with some young talent as well.

Riewoldt, Cotch and even Dusty this year really dropped away in performance.

They finally worked out in 2022 that it's better to manage players like Selwood and Dangerfield during the season so they hit the finals flying rather than cooked.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You might get lucky and have another 2004.

1 - Brett Deledio - priority for being shit.
4 - Richard Tambling
12 - Danny Meyer
16 - Adam Pattison
20 - Dean Polo
36 - Luke McGuane
52 - Dean Limbach
65 - Mark Graham

Traded out Ottens for those 12 and 16 picks.

Traded Aaron Fiora to St Kilda for Troy Simmonds

Trent Knoble in the pre-season draft

Rookie Draft - Will Thursfield

Rookie Elevation - Kelvin Moore

We can only hope.

Yet the best player by miles Geelong recruited that year....was a product of Richmond's drafting.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

They finally worked out in 2022 that it's better to manage players like Selwood and Dangerfield during the season so they hit the finals flying rather than cooked.

Yep, Grigg had to tell them that, Cats were a bit slow on the uptake as usual.

 

[Boxhead_31]

You can't plan for luck. Danger is 34, most are long gone or should have by then. He still has his greatest asset, pace. Good on him. Cameron is only 31, so plenty left in the tank. But if he had missed the last two years as Lynch had, who is only 6 months older, things might be a bit different.

But knowing Geelong, they'd patch the hole. We tried with Folau, (good before knee reco) Fawcett (draft - out all year with back) and Grey (midseason - ready to play first game, does a hammy with 2 minutes to go in the VFL, season over).

Neale is next forward in line, and Smith is coming to help Holmes carry the midfield.

Also, there is a certain Giant forward waiting to head back to the country life.

As I said, it is almost as if it is planned

 

[Tonythetiger]

1999 - Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, Cameron Ling, Corey Enright.

Hawthorn - 2001 - Luke Hodge, Campbell Brown, Sam Mitchell and 2004 - Jarryd Roughead, Lance Franklin, Jordan Lewis, Clinton Young

You need to nail a couple.

2001 for Geelong was the first that came to mind as I recall Ablett was father soon but also a strong draft for you guys. I think we just got David Rodan lol. Explains a lot about why we were so bad for so long.

 

[Tonythetiger]

They finally worked out in 2022 that it's better to manage players like Selwood and Dangerfield during the season so they hit the finals flying rather than cooked.

Pretty much this, it's the best possible strategy, win enough games without flogging everyone at 100% then time the run to play your best footy at the tail end. Teams don't generally win flags but starting strong and finishing weakly.

 

[Tonythetiger]

Wel will.

View attachment 2103635

Not the flex you think it is.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Not the flex you think it is.

See what you think when our draft hand is finalised. It will likely be the strongest draft hand an established club has ever had.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Yep, Grigg had to tell them that, Cats were a bit slow on the uptake as usual.

He must've learnt that at Carlton then.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Yet the best player by miles Geelong recruited that year....was a product of Richmond's drafting.

Geelong just had to train the Richmond out of him.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

He must've learnt that at Carlton then.

Yep, brought it to Richmond as well.

Gold Coast next.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Geelong just had to train the Richmond out of him.

You mean Ottens had to train the Geelong out of Geelong of course.

 

[BF Tiger]

What weak livered nonsense is this. It does nobody any honour to only fight when they are ahead in a contest.

Richmond were a train wreck until the successful regime started being built from around 2006. So if for the purposes of flexing muscles we say the clock starts from 2010 when Dimma was appointed, we were down, Cats were up, so they had a big head start on us.

Since then we have 3 flags they have 2.

We have won 10 finals they have won 14.

From when we first made finals in 2013 we have missed finals 4 times and made finals 8 times. One of the times we missed, 2024, no team in history would be able to make finals with the injury run we had. That is the only year we have threatened to finish bottom 4. Cats have missed finals twice and made finals 10 times.

Richmond supporters can look anyone in the eye and stand their ground based on the club's achievements, even the Cats who people are holding up as the superior club in the competition at the moment. We pantsed them in 3 recent finals, they have beaten us once in a final in the last 95 years. The Tigers now look like taking the long road back, but it is a legitimate choice dictated by the available opportunities, and could in time prove a master stroke. The club is now fully funded, has recent knowledge of how to succeed and will take its chances in the draft, starting with an unprecedented hand for an established club, in what looks a strong draft at this stage.

*ed if I am backing down from anyone just because we finished bottom due to a once in a lifetime injury run. * that, grow some balls.

Maybe you missed the part in the thread where it is about re-builds and not history. I don't know.

But go ahead, keep on embarrassing yourself.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yet the best player by miles Geelong recruited that year....was a product of Richmond's drafting.

We only drafted 3 players that year: one of them was a premiership centre half forward called Ablett, another one was an All Australian centre half back who would have been in that premiership team except he injured his foot two games before the finals that same year…. Not sure it was the bust you make it out to be.

 

[Grrr]

Neale is next forward in line, and Smith is coming to help Holmes carry the midfield.

Also, there is a certain Giant forward waiting to head back to the country life.

As I said, it is almost as if it is planned

All sides plan, but they don't always come to fruition. Lefau was going okay without any support (bare minimum Kosi), until he did his knee. No Lynch made it even harder. Then the next two talls were injured for the season. Gibcus can also play forward.

Luck, or lack of it can play a part. We had 8 players over 195cm all out for the season by half way through it or did not play at all. That is not planning.

Like Riewoldt, Hawkins was gone well before the injury.

 

[Sttew]

Geelong just had to train the Richmond out of him.

i.e., Losing