Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[Leeda]

Tuesday...tuesday...monkey.see Tuesday...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Is it? I thought da ratingz were only available to subscribers to champion data.

Can you send me a link where I can find them?

wheeloratings.com

Choose "AFL" "Player stats"

You can get every player rating for every game and season back to 2012 there.

 

[Footy Smarts]

wheeloratings.com

Choose "AFL" "Player stats"

You can get every player rating for every game and season back to 2012 there.

Amazing thank you!

So let's see what da ratingz say about Geelong and Richmond youngsters. So if we limit it to players that turned 23 this year or younger with ratingz above 8 their ratingz for the year in order are:

Holmes - 14.87
Humphries - 10.95
Conway - 10.40 (limited to 5 games due to injury)
Dempsey - 9.82
Bruhn - 9.32
De Koning - 9.31
Gibcus - 8.75 (limited to 2 games due to injury)
Bauer - 8.5 (only picked for 3 games)

So Geelong has the top 6. And the only 2 Richmond players who make the grade played 5 games between them.

Pretty concerning for Geelong wouldn't you say Meteoric Rise ?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Amazing thank you!

So let's see what da ratingz say about Geelong and Richmond youngsters. So if we limit it to players that turned 23 this year or younger with ratingz above 8 their ratingz for the year in order are:

Holmes - 14.87
Humphries - 10.95
Conway - 10.40 (limited to 5 games due to injury)
Dempsey - 9.82
Bruhn - 9.32
De Koning - 9.31
Gibcus - 8.75 (limited to 2 games due to injury)
Bauer - 8.5 (only picked for 3 games)

So Geelong has the top 6. And the only 2 Richmond players who make the grade played 5 games between them.

Pretty concerning for Geelong wouldn't you say Meteoric Rise ?

You've got one key player(Holmes) rating high for his role. Humphries doing well on a back flank for half a season. Dempsey rating pretty well for a winger. The rest of those you listed are losing their positions with those ratings.

The Richmond contingent didn't rate well but that is to be expected given most of them either had interrupted seasons or were playing peripheral roles made much more difficult by the fact the midfield and forward line were decimated. What Richmond will be disappointed in is their 23 year olds, a couple of whom had great chances to step up but were found badly wanting, Dow and Cumberland in particular, to a lesser extent Coulthard. All 3 of those would be delisted in normal circumstances but we already have around 8 outgoing players, so some or all of those may be retained for another year.

Long way to go for all these guys.

 

[Grrr]

Amazing thank you!

So let's see what da ratingz say about Geelong and Richmond youngsters. So if we limit it to players that turned 23 this year or younger with ratingz above 8 their ratingz for the year in order are:

Holmes - 14.87
Humphries - 10.95
Conway - 10.40 (limited to 5 games due to injury)
Dempsey - 9.82
Bruhn - 9.32
De Koning - 9.31
Gibcus - 8.75 (limited to 2 games due to injury)
Bauer - 8.5 (only picked for 3 games)

So Geelong has the top 6. And the only 2 Richmond players who make the grade played 5 games between them.

Pretty concerning for Geelong wouldn't you say Meteoric Rise ?

You can only rate young players when they have played roughly the same amount of games.

Holmes has played 70 odd games, he is far ahead of any of our young players because they have played by and large their first seasons. In Holmes's first season he averaged nearly 10 possessions a game, much like Brown has for us, nearly 13.

Our young players were either not much chop, weren't given much of a go in a side going backward under Hardwick, or were just starting. A few have bobbed up this year who look decent, but let's wait a year or so before we can say who's are better.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You've got one key player(Holmes) rating high for his role. Humphries doing well on a back flank for half a season. Dempsey rating pretty well for a winger. The rest of those you listed are losing their positions with those ratings.

The Richmond contingent didn't rate well but that is to be expected given most of them either had interrupted seasons or were playing peripheral roles made much more difficult by the fact the midfield and forward line were decimated. What Richmond will be disappointed in is their 23 year olds, a couple of whom had great chances to step up but were found badly wanting, Dow and Cumberland in particular, to a lesser extent Coulthard. All 3 of those would be delisted in normal circumstances but we already have around 8 outgoing players, so some or all of those may be retained for another year.

Long way to go for all these guys.

You could've just said yes it is concerning for Geelong.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You could've just said yes it is concerning for Geelong.

I wouldn't be concerned if I were Geelong supporter. The main reason for that is I wouldn't be a Geelong supporter.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You can only rate young players when they have played roughly the same amount of games.

Holmes has played 70 odd games, he is far ahead of any of our young players because they have played by and large their first seasons. In Holmes's first season he averaged nearly 10 possessions a game, much like Brown has for us, nearly 13.

Let's be honest. Holmes is far ahead of your young players cause he's miles better. Same as the rest of our young players because he's a gun.

I like how you try to pretend this year was Brown's first to make it sound better. But he's 21. It's his 3rd year in the system.

Why did Humphries perform so much better than Brown this year in what was actually his first season? Why did Dempsey perform so much better from the same draft despite playing very little footy as a junior?

It's not certain and things can change but chances are they're just better players.

Our young players were either not much chop, weren't given much of a go in a side going backward under Hardwick, or were just starting. A few have bobbed up this year who look decent, but let's wait a year or so before we can say who's are better.

You were saying similar about guys like Dow and Cumberland last year.

If you're a guy like Sonsie, Dow and Cumberland and are getting dropped from the worst team in the comp after 3+ years in the system it's a really, really bad sign.

 

[Grrr]

Let's be honest. Holmes is far ahead of your young players cause he's miles better. Same as the rest of our young players because he's a gun.

I like how you try to pretend this year was Brown's first to make it sound better. But he's 21. It's his 3rd year in the system.

Why did Humphries perform so much better than Brown this year in what was actually his first season? Why did Dempsey perform so much better from the same draft despite playing very little footy as a junior?

It's not certain and things can change but chances are they're just better players.



You were saying similar about guys like Dow and Cumberland last year.

If you're a guy like Sonsie, Dow and Cumberland and are getting dropped from the worst team in the comp after 3+ years in the system it's a really, really bad sign.

They are the not much chop category, and they were all found wanting. That happens in every club.

It was Brown's first year playing seniors but for one game last year. His first year he played VFL, was injured for the first 10 VFL games in '23 and then had a proper run this year and did very well. He had the disadvantage of playing in a side that won the spoon, not one that finished top 4.

Of course we are behind in regard to young players, Wells is about the best in the business. But that can change very quickly, and it will in regard to this years draft. We will have a hand like GWS and Gold Coast when they started.

Richmond have a good way to go to get back up there, but there were at least some signs that some young players might step up like as you mentioned Dempsey and Humphries, who you would not have thought a year ago that they would be doing what they are doing. Every club has those.

 

[Wojcinski]

Amazing thank you!

So let's see what da ratingz say about Geelong and Richmond youngsters. So if we limit it to players that turned 23 this year or younger with ratingz above 8 their ratingz for the year in order are:

Holmes - 14.87
Humphries - 10.95
Conway - 10.40 (limited to 5 games due to injury)
Dempsey - 9.82
Bruhn - 9.32
De Koning - 9.31
Gibcus - 8.75 (limited to 2 games due to injury)
Bauer - 8.5 (only picked for 3 games)

So Geelong has the top 6. And the only 2 Richmond players who make the grade played 5 games between them.

Pretty concerning for Geelong wouldn't you say Meteoric Rise ?

I knew their youth was garbage but I didn't realise it was North in 2020 levels of utter garbage

Oh dear, it's gonna be a long 3 decades for the poor old Tigers

 

[DanA]

They are the not much chop category, and they were all found wanting. That happens in every club.

It was Brown's first year playing seniors but for one game last year. His first year he played VFL, was injured for the first 10 VFL games in '23 and then had a proper run this year and did very well. He had the disadvantage of playing in a side that one the spoon, not one that finished top 4.

Of course we are behind in regard to young players, Wells is about the best in the business. But that can change very quickly, and it will in regard to this years draft. We will have a hand like GWS and Gold Coast when they started.

Richmond have a good way to go to get back up there, but there were at least some signs that some young players might step up like as you mentioned Dempsey and Humphries, who you would not have thought a year ago that they would be doing what they are doing. Every club has those.

It can change very quickly.....in theory. But real world, it has remained the same for the last 25 years so and if 2024 is any indication it looks like it will remain so for the foreseeable future.

 

[Grrr]

It can change very quickly.....in theory. But real world, it has remained the same for the last 25 years so and if 2024 is any indication it looks like it will remain so for the foreseeable future.

I assume by it you mean Richmond? What has stayed the same for 25 years, our inability to win GF's ??

 

[DanA]

I assume by it you mean Richmond? What has stayed the same for 25 years, our inability to win GF's ??

Wells being the best in the business

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Geelong have lost sight of the Draft never forget what helped them win 2007,2009,2011 premierships.

It was through the draft with players like Bartel, Steve Johnson, Andrew Mackie, Harry Taylor, Joel Corey, Corey Enright. than they got great F/S Ablett Jr, Scarlettt, Hawkins.

They pinched a Premiership in 2022. let's call it what it is.

2014: Geelong 7 Richmond 10
2015: Geelong 7 Richmond 6
2016: Geelong 10 Richmond 4
2017: Geelong 6 Richmond 6
2018: Geelong 10 Richmond 5
2019: Geelong 6 Richmond 5
2020: Geelong 3 Richmond 2
2021: Geelong 6 Richmond 5
2022: Geelong 4 Richmond 4
2023: Geelong 7 Richmond 2

This is the number of draft picks used to select players in the last 10 drafts. Excluding rookie elevations or listed players being re-rookied. I'd say our commitment to the draft has consistently been solid.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Geelong have lost sight of the Draft never forget what helped them win 2007,2009,2011 premierships.

It was through the draft with players like Bartel, Steve Johnson, Andrew Mackie, Harry Taylor, Joel Corey, Corey Enright. than they got great F/S Ablett Jr, Scarlettt, Hawkins.

They pinched a Premiership in 2022. let's call it what it is.

Did you get your opinion from the Richmond board?

 

[Fadge]

Has there been a more awkward and demotivating place to be in the history of the AFL competition than Richmond's Best and Fairest night tonight?

Oh boy.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Has there been a more awkward and demotivating place to be in the history of the AFL competition than Richmond's Best and Fairest night tonight?

Oh boy.

Errr...Collingwood a few short years ago when they arseholed cotractd players against their will.

 

[Fadge]

Errr...Collingwood a few short years ago when they arseholed cotractd players against their will.

So demotivating that Collingwood immediately followed up with a top 4 finish and a flag in the following two seasons.

Strong clubs make ruthless list decisions, and manage the list of their own accord.

Also rans have a mass exodus of players like rats leaving a sinking ship.

 

[tiger_tough]

So demotivating that Collingwood immediately followed up with a top 4 finish and a flag in the following two seasons.

Strong clubs make ruthless list decisions, and manage the list of their own accord.

Also rans have a mass exodus of players like rats leaving a sinking ship.

I mean....they're contracted so we could always refuse to trade them....

Shipping them off and loading up in the draft IS the ruthless list decisions you speak of.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So demotivating that Collingwood immediately followed up with a top 4 finish and a flag in the following two seasons.

Strong clubs make ruthless list decisions, and manage the list of their own accord.

Also rans have a mass exodus of players like rats leaving a sinking ship.

Yes because we all know, a strong club would win 2 Grand Finals in the last 66 years whilst an also ran club would win 3 in the last 8 years, with a combined Grand Final percentage never matched by any team playing multiple Grand Finals in 128 years of the competition's history.

We believe you Fadge.

 

[Wojcinski]

So demotivating that Collingwood immediately followed up with a top 4 finish and a flag in the following two seasons.

Strong clubs make ruthless list decisions, and manage the list of their own accord.

Also rans have a mass exodus of players like rats leaving a sinking ship.

3 of Richmond's top 5 B&F place getters have requested trades away from the club. A club that lost a record 21 games this season.

Coupled with the fact that they don't have a single player receiving a rising star vote or filling a position on the 22under22 it looks really, really dire.

 

[Fadge]

I mean....they're contracted so we could always refuse to trade them....

Shipping them off and loading up in the draft IS the ruthless list decisions you speak of.

'Leaving of their own accord' is quite different to 'shipping then off'...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

'Leaving of their own accord' is quite different to 'shipping then off'...

Lol, the whole world can see they are leaving with Richmond's full blessing, and the players' full agreement.

Except you it seems.

 

[Fadge]

3 of Richmond's top 5 B&F place getters have requested trades away from the club. A club that lost a record 21 games this season.

Coupled with the fact that they don't have a single player receiving a rising star vote or filling a position on the 22under22 it looks really, really dire.

But, but, but...

'They could always refuse to trade them'...

 

[Fadge]

Lol, the whole world can see they are leaving with Richmond's full blessing, and the players' full agreement.

Except you it seems.

How wonderful it is that Richmond are giving their blessing...