Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[tiger_tough]

3 of Richmond's top 5 B&F place getters have requested trades away from the club. A club that lost a record 21 games this season.

Coupled with the fact that they don't have a single player receiving a rising star vote or filling a position on the 22under22 it looks really, really dire.

Fortunately those 3 blokes in your 1st paragraph are going to net us a bucket load of elite yoing kids to address the issues in 2nd paragraph

Better than treading water....

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Hmmmm.

Finishing stone motherless last and accepting trade requests from every player on your list with any talent and therefore trade value ain't exactly the 'enviable position' you suggest it is....

Clubs not exactly lineing up to offer Harry Perryman 6 years @ $900k, and give 36yo's another year, but Desperatewood are.

We'll take our chances on a strong draft thanks.

 

[Fadge]

You do realise Bolton and Rioli can only leave if the club allows it?

A bit like me saying 'You do realise Margot Robbie could only have a sexual encounter with me if I was interested in doing so...'

 

[tiger_tough]

A bit me saying 'You do realise Margot Robbie could only have a sexual encounter with me if I was interested in doing so...'

If she was contracted to do so with you long term, then yeah I guess it is similar.

 

[Fadge]

Better than treading water....

Ah yes, and here we go again.

Unproven youth with potential is far better than older, proven experienced players...

 

[Fadge]

Clubs not exactly lineing up to offer Harry Perryman 6 years @ $900k, and give 36yo's another year, but Desperatewood are.

We'll take our chances on a strong draft thanks.

Nah, Tigers went with both Hopper and Taranto on similar coin, and their older players fall off a cliff once they hit the wrong side of 30.

 

[PhatBoy]

The TAB voucher Tigers bigging it up again.

How refreshing

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The TAB voucher Tigers bigging it up again.

How refreshing

Last time Richmond built a team it won 3 flags.

Last time the Cats built a team it also won 3 flags.....for Richmond.

 

[Wojcinski]

Last time Richmond built a team it won 3 flags.

Last time the Cats built a team it also won 3 flags.....for Richmond.

So you're saying Richmond doesn't have the ability to flags without outside assistance?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So you're saying Richmond doesn't have the ability to flags without outside assistance?

All teams have to beat someone on the way to their flags. In our case it is usually Geelong.

 

[Footy Smarts]

That top 10 in Richmond's B&F is just extraordinary.

3 players who want to leave (Rioli, Baker and Bolton).
4 players over 30 (Vlastuin, Nankervis, Broad and Prestia).
No players under 24. The only 2 players under 28 are battlers in Mansell and Miller.

Everyone knows Dion Prestia

3

Dion Prestia

Age

32

Ht

175cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.1

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

11.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

3.2

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

is physically cooked. He still finished higher in the B&F from just 12 full games than Campbell (21 games), Dow (17 games), Ralphsmith (18), Brown (18), Banks (15), Sonsie (14) and Koschitzke (14). And these are the youngsters who could actually get games.

 

[STPer18]

That top 10 in Richmond's B&F is just extraordinary.

3 players who want to leave (Rioli, Baker and Bolton).
4 players over 30 (Vlastuin, Nankervis, Broad and Prestia).
No players under 24. The only 2 players under 28 are battlers in Mansell and Miller.

Everyone knows Dion Prestia is physically cooked. He still finished higher in the B&F from just 12 full games than Campbell (21 games), Dow (17 games), Ralphsmith (18), Brown (18), Banks (15), Sonsie (14) and Koschitzke (14). And these are the youngsters who could actually get games.

Which one is the guy who is as good as Holmes and was a win-win trade for both clubs?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That top 10 in Richmond's B&F is just extraordinary.

3 players who want to leave (Rioli, Baker and Bolton).
4 players over 30 (Vlastuin, Nankervis, Broad and Prestia).
No players under 24. The only 2 players under 28 are battlers in Mansell and Miller.

Everyone knows Dion Prestia is physically cooked. He still finished higher in the B&F from just 12 full games than Campbell (21 games), Dow (17 games), Ralphsmith (18), Brown (18), Banks (15), Sonsie (14) and Koschitzke (14). And these are the youngsters who could actually get games.

If you didn't know half the list had missed materially large chunks of the season injured you would probably think that was extraordinary. But you do know it, and you are still saying it is extraordinary. Which means you just want to use the term extraordinary in relation to Richmond.

 

[Wojcinski]

If you didn't know half the list had missed materially large chunks of the season injured you would probably think that was extraordinary. But you do know it, and you are still saying it is extraordinary. Which means you just want to use the term extraordinary in relation to Richmond.

That's even worse, half the list missed large chunks of the season and the youngsters still couldn't do F all. Fitzroy was in a better position in 1996 list wise than Richmond is right now.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That's even worse, half the list missed large chunks of the season and the youngsters still couldn't do F all. Fitzroy was in a better position in 1996 list wise than Richmond is right now.

The only players not in the top 10 in the B & F who were in the top 10 for games played were Kamdyn McIntosh, and Seth Campbell.

McIntosh's TOG was down about 10% compared to normal as he was sub on several occasions. In any even he is no guarantee to get a 2025 contract.

Seth Campbell missed 2 games and is a 19yo rookie in his first season playing in a forward line in total disarray.

They were replaced in the top 10 in voting by Prestia, and Baker. Baker played 18 games at his highest average player rating ever. Prestia played 13 games at a level of votes per game that would have seen him eitehr win the B & F or go very close if he'd played every game.

Most of our best younger players missed chunks of the season, so it is hardly a shock they don't figure in the B & F top 10.

You guys need to stop being drama queens.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Most of our best younger players missed chunks of the season, so it is hardly a shock they don't figure in the B & F top 10.

Brown, Dow, Sonsie, Campbell, Koschitzke, Ralphsmith, Coulthard, Green, Smith, Ryan, Cumberland, Banks and McAuliffe were all fit for the vast majority of the season.

So who missed large chunks?

The only guys who have played AFL, are under 24 and missed significant chunks of the season were Rioli, Clarke, Gibcus, Bauer and Trezise.

If you're relying on an ok small forward, a kid who was stuck in the VFL, a forever injured youngster and 2x mid season draftees as your "best kids" I think that just proves the point.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Brown, Dow, Sonsie, Campbell, Koschitzke, Ralphsmith, Coulthard, Green, Smith, Ryan, Cumberland, Banks and McAuliffe were all fit for the vast majority of the season.

So who missed large chunks?

The only guys who have played AFL, are under 24 and missed significant chunks of the season were Rioli, Clarke, Gibcus, Bauer and Trezise.

If you're relying on an ok small forward, a kid who was stuck in the VFL, a forever injured youngster and 2x mid season draftees as your "best kids" I think that just proves the point.

Brown missed 5 games, but also played several games on the forward line with shoulder issues, before being turned out for 2 shoulder operations.

Ross missed all bar about 7 games.

McAuliffe, Green, Smith are first and second year kids taken with picks after 40, they are not going to be expected to igure in the top 10 of the B & F, but it doesn't mean one or more of them won't become good players.

Banks and Ralphsmith took a long time to find their feet in the season, both may have played more games if they specialised in positions we did not have experienced players available. I would actually love to know how they voted in the games they played, they both seemed to finish the year off reasonably.

Ryan is a developing ruck who mainly played forward out of necessity. He is nowhere near an AFL forward so forget he went around.

Coulthard, Koschitzke, Sonsie, Dow had seasons that were not AFL standard overall, though Koschitzke was notably better later in the season, he is not really an AFL level player.

Cumberland is nowhere near AFL standard.

If you put the best 6-7 out of Ross, Rioli, Gibcus, Brown, Bauer, Clarke, Campbell, Trezise, Banks, Ralphsmith and even Sonsie into a suitable role in a reasonably functioning team, how would they go?

The truth is you don't know the answer and neither do I.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Brown missed 5 games, but also played several games on the forward line with shoulder issues, before being turned out for 2 shoulder operations.

Ross missed all bar about 7 games.

McAuliffe, Green, Smith are first and second year kids taken with picks after 40, they are not going to be expected to igure in the top 10 of the B & F, but it doesn't mean one or more of them won't become good players.

Banks and Ralphsmith took a long time to find their feet in the season, both may have played more games if they specialised in positions we did not have experienced players available. I would actually love to know how they voted in the games they played, they both seemed to finish the year off reasonably.

Ryan is a developing ruck who mainly played forward out of necessity. He is nowhere near an AFL forward so forget he went around.

Coulthard, Koschitzke, Sonsie, Dow had seasons that were not AFL standard overall, though Koschitzke was notably better later in the season, he is not really an AFL level player.

Cumberland is nowhere near AFL standard.

If you put the best 6-7 out of Ross, Rioli, Gibcus, Brown, Bauer, Clarke, Campbell, Trezise, Banks, Ralphsmith and even Sonsie into a suitable role in a reasonably functioning team, how would they go?

The truth is you don't know the answer and neither do I.

I love the excuses.

Brown wasn't selected for the first 2 games despite being fully fit. He then played 18 consecutive games. Yeah sounds like an injury riddled season to me.

To be fair you'd want to make some excuses why Tom "better than Max Holmes" Brown ended up with far less votes per game than Kamdyn McIntosh.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I love the excuses.

Brown wasn't selected for the first 2 games despite being fully fit. He then played 18 consecutive games. Yeah sounds like an injury riddled season to me.

To be fair you'd want to make some excuses why Tom "better than Max Holmes" Brown ended up with far less votes per game than Kamdyn McIntosh.

Declare your hand then. How good is Brown going to be?

 

[Footy Smarts]

Which one is the guy who is as good as Holmes and was a win-win trade for both clubs?

Tom Brown. The claim was that Holmes is a better athlete but Brown a better footballer. Present tense too.

But to be fair you can't judge a guy into he has some continuity and being available for selection for 20 consecutive games definitely doesn't count.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Tom Brown. The claim was that Holmes is a better athlete but Brown a better footballer. Present tense too.

But to be fair you can't judge a guy into he has some continuity and being available for selection for 20 consecutive games definitely doesn't count.

You judge him then. How good is he going to be in your opinion?

 

[Footy Smarts]

Declare your hand then. How good is Brown going to be?

I honestly don't know.

He lacks any intensity in the contest and is a defensive liability at the moment. But he sometimes takes a nice mark and is a beautiful kick. He basically looks like early years Zach Guthrie without the defensive game.

It wouldn't shock me if it eventually clicks and he turns into a good player. But there's serious risk of him being a bust and delisted within a couple of years. I wouldn't give up a top 40 pick for him.

Compare him to Lawson Humphries who played a similar role. You'd think Brown was the late draftee given the major deficiencies in his game while Humphries looks like the early draftee maturing into a star. That's despite Brown having 3 years in the system while it's Humphries' first.

There's nothing particularly wrong with Tom Brown. He's so far been disappointing given his pick but still might come good. The fact you were convinced he was better than Holmes only a few months ago is very amusing. The fact he's one of Richmond's more promising kids is alarming.

 

[Andyy]

I honestly don't know.

He lacks any intensity in the contest and is a defensive liability at the moment. But he sometimes takes a nice mark and is a beautiful kick. He basically looks like early years Zach Guthrie without the defensive game.

It wouldn't shock me if it eventually clicks and he turns into a good player. But there's serious risk of him being a bust and delisted within a couple of years. I wouldn't give up a top 40 pick for him.

Compare him to Lawson Humphries who played a similar role. You'd think Brown was the late draftee given the major deficiencies in his game while Humphries looks like the early draftee maturing into a star. That's despite Brown having 3 years in the system while it's Humphries' first.

There's nothing particularly wrong with Tom Brown. He's so far been disappointing given his pick but still might come good. The fact you were convinced he was better than Holmes only a few months ago is very amusing. The fact he's one of Richmond's more promising kids is alarming.

Don't agree with your assessment personally.

He grew 6cm in the 1-2 years after being drafted. Clearly indicating that he needed some time to fill out to a size suitable for AFL games.

This year was a good year. Looked very decent down back, great mark, amazing by foot, and found the goals when moved forward.

I think he has a real future personally as a promising tall. Not sure which end he should be at - I think forward but plenty of other fans think back.


My only gripe is that I wanted JVR.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I honestly don't know.

He lacks any intensity in the contest and is a defensive liability at the moment. But he sometimes takes a nice mark and is a beautiful kick. He basically looks like early years Zach Guthrie without the defensive game.

It wouldn't shock me if it eventually clicks and he turns into a good player. But there's serious risk of him being a bust and delisted within a couple of years. I wouldn't give up a top 40 pick for him.

Compare him to Lawson Humphries who played a similar role. You'd think Brown was the late draftee given the major deficiencies in his game while Humphries looks like the early draftee maturing into a star. That's despite Brown having 3 years in the system while it's Humphries' first.

There's nothing particularly wrong with Tom Brown. He's so far been disappointing given his pick but still might come good. The fact you were convinced he was better than Holmes only a few months ago is very amusing. The fact he's one of Richmond's more promising kids is alarming.

You've made one solid statement there. You wouldn't give up a top 40 pick for Tom Brown. So let's bookmark that and see how well that ages.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Don't agree with your assessment personally.

He grew 6cm in the 1-2 years after being drafted. Clearly indicating that he needed some time to fill out to a size suitable for AFL games.

This year was a good year. Looked very decent down back, great mark, amazing by foot, and found the goals when moved forward.

I think he has a real future personally as a promising tall. Not sure which end he should be at - I think forward but plenty of other fans think back.


My only gripe is that I wanted JVR.

He will be a hybrid defender in the Vlastuin mould. He is a similar height(his listed height is wrong.)

Pretty sure they were mainly playing him forward just to help his education as a defender, they only moved him forard once his shoulders were knackered, knowing he would need operations on them anyway.

He needs to build a better tank. But if he does, he will be a very nice player. We can see he is a brilliant kick and a strong overhead mark.