The Review

[skam85]

Apologies if this had been disinterred before, but this is an interesting read on Geelong's 2006 review

Some highlights:
- divisions between players and coaches / fitness staff
- review announced in July
- one outside consultant, David Parkin
- review took 60 days

Can't wait to knock off port by 119 in the GF next year!

 

[marty36]

Look I don't mind the possible Pavlich appointment in isolation but I remember mentioning on here during a game Roo was commentating earlier in the year that it was annoying me so much that rather than just have an opinion, Riccutio would constantly then follow it up with "isn't that right Pav?".

Yeah, it would be hard to find someone with no connections to anyone at the club, but I'd probably prefer they weren't colleagues with the most football person on our board.

You would think Roo knows most high profile football identities, its just how close he is too them

 

[AFC3000]

You would think Roo knows most high profile football identities, its just how close he is too them

I'm just looking forward to finding out who the other 2 people are now. Good news isn't often left to late Friday afternoon.

 

[Elite Crow]

Still nothing? What a bunch of bloody amateurs

 

[Johnny Rutten]

I'm just looking forward to finding out who the other 2 people are now. Good news isn't often left to late Friday afternoon.

No matter who they are, this board and the media will continue to spin negativity.

 

[marty36]

I'm just looking forward to finding out who the other 2 people are now. Good news isn't often left to late Friday afternoon.

It will be news, whether its good or not depends on your mindset, some people are never happy remember, they enjoy a good whine

 

[rocket18]

What makes you think we'll be top-8 without those players?

• Jacobs only played 5 games this year, and only 3 post-bye. ROB played plenty of games, and didn't make a material difference in our ability to win.
• Betts was only dropped for 1 game, and still managed to kick 37 goals (albeit 12 of them being against Gold Coast). That's not an unreasonable return, given the way the ball was being delivered into our forward line. Stengle showed a bit as his replacement, but hardly enough to suggest that he'd be the difference between us making the 8 and missing again.
• Otten only played 3 games for the season, and only when injuries gave us no other alternative. How, precisely, does his omission improve our best 22 - given that he wasn't in our best 22 to begin with?
• Mackay had an average year. Neither particularly good, nor particularly bad. His haters will continue to hate. However, what was noticeable was that he was the only player still willing to provide run & carry towards the end of the season, when everyone else had given up and reverted to chip-chip-chip-turnover.
• Douglas played 9 games, but never really got going this year. I think it's safe to say that his replacement in 2020 will offer more than he did in 2019. Enough to turn us into a top-8 team? Don't make me laugh.

The biggest difference will be replacing our dud off-field performers, and coming up with a gameplan for 2020. That, and getting our better players to perform at more than 35% of their capacity, are the keys to improving the team.

Getting some youth into the side will reinvigorate the team. That's a good thing - but expecting them to make a big difference on the field is a tall expectation. At the end of the day, the players you named are not the reason why we failed this year.

My second and third sentence mentioned game plan and getting rid of the dud off field staff.

"Throw in Gibbs and a clean up/out of some of the off-field dead weight and we'll be easy top 8 next year.

Imagine a good game plan, players issues sorted out, no Burton, Campo or Hart and inject some youth and skill - happy days ahead!!"

You make it seem those players lack of impact had no bearing on our shit season.

Whether it was a lot or a little is unknown but by golly playing some hungry, faster, "not mentally damaged" players has to be a plus next season.

Douglas, Sauce and Otten shouldn't have played and we wont lose anything with them not playing.
I argue their replacement will provide more.

MacKay as you say was average, his application has never been questioned - if everyone else tried like him we wouldn't be in this mess.
I argue his replacement will provide more.

Betts had a poor year overall, how many goal less games did he have? He filled his boots in the four games against the Saints & GC. I look forward to Stengle having a full season.
I argue Eddies replacement will provide the same, potentially more. Eddie is well on the decline.

My initial post was in reply to someone saying we will miss the 8 after a reset, the players leaving are not anywhere near our best players (in before Fog and Jones request a trade). Them leaving and a decent game plan and decent off field appointments will see us back into the 8.

 

[Vader]

My second and third sentence mentioned game plan and getting rid of the dud off field staff.

"Throw in Gibbs and a clean up/out of some of the off-field dead weight and we'll be easy top 8 next year.

Imagine a good game plan, players issues sorted out, no Burton, Campo or Hart and inject some youth and skill - happy days ahead!!"

You make it seem those players lack of impact had no bearing on our s**t season.

Whether it was a lot or a little is unknown but by golly playing some hungry, faster, "not mentally damaged" players has to be a plus next season.

Douglas, Sauce and Otten shouldn't have played and we wont lose anything with them not playing.
I argue their replacement will provide more.

MacKay as you say was average, his application has never been questioned - if everyone else tried like him we wouldn't be in this mess.
I argue his replacement will provide more.

Betts had a poor year overall, how many goal less games did he have? He filled his boots in the four games against the Saints & GC. I look forward to Stengle having a full season.
I argue Eddies replacement will provide the same, potentially more. Eddie is well on the decline.

My initial post was in reply to someone saying we will miss the 8 after a reset, the players leaving are not anywhere near our best players (in before Fog and Jones request a trade). Them leaving and a decent game plan and decent off field appointments will see us back into the 8.

I acknowledge that you also mentioned the need for off-field changes, including the need for a good (I'd settle for competent) game plan.

Otten & Sauce barely played. Their absence didn't seem to improve the team's performance - nor did their presence late in the season.

I'm happy for all of the players you named to be replaced. I just don't see that as being the panacea for all of the ills which afflicted our team this year. I see it as a necessary, but minor, change in the scheme of things. The real change has to happen off the field.

 

[King Elvis]

Still no update?

Obviously this is a last minute, desperation driven action. To not have the people locked away weeks ago is just pathetic.

 

[marty36]

My second and third sentence mentioned game plan and getting rid of the dud off field staff.

"Throw in Gibbs and a clean up/out of some of the off-field dead weight and we'll be easy top 8 next year.

Imagine a good game plan, players issues sorted out, no Burton, Campo or Hart and inject some youth and skill - happy days ahead!!"

You make it seem those players lack of impact had no bearing on our s**t season.

Whether it was a lot or a little is unknown but by golly playing some hungry, faster, "not mentally damaged" players has to be a plus next season.

Douglas, Sauce and Otten shouldn't have played and we wont lose anything with them not playing.
I argue their replacement will provide more.

MacKay as you say was average, his application has never been questioned - if everyone else tried like him we wouldn't be in this mess.
I argue his replacement will provide more.

Betts had a poor year overall, how many goal less games did he have? He filled his boots in the four games against the Saints & GC. I look forward to Stengle having a full season.
I argue Eddies replacement will provide the same, potentially more. Eddie is well on the decline.

My initial post was in reply to someone saying we will miss the 8 after a reset, the players leaving are not anywhere near our best players (in before Fog and Jones request a trade). Them leaving and a decent game plan and decent off field appointments will see us back into the 8.

Cant find the betting odds for for making the eight but going by the premiership odds for 2020 you need to make a bet

Richmond (2020)

5.00

West Coast (2020)

6.00

Collingwood (2020)

7.00

Geelong (2020)

7.00

Brisbane (2020)

8.00

GWS (2020)

15.00

Western Bulldogs (2020)

15.00

Hawthorn (2020)

21.00

Essendon (2020)

23.00

North Melbourne (2020)

23.00

Port Adelaide (2020)

23.00

Adelaide (2020)

29.00

Melbourne (2020)

29.00

Carlton (2020)

34.00

Sydney Swans (2020)

51.00

Fremantle (2020)

67.00

St Kilda (2020)

101.00

Gold Coast (2020)

251.00

 

[rocket18]

No matter who they are, this board and the media will continue to spin negativity.

So you would be happy with Bickley and Van Berlo?

Of course it matters who it is, I'd prefer someone recently retired who came from a successful club (Hawks or WC) and/or went through a similar external review (Cats or Tiges)

The other person to be older with coaching experience who was part of a successful organisation.

Not someone from bloody Freo whose claim to fame post playing is he's president of a union.

Edit: If the remaining two spots are indeed Fages and Pav we might as well pack up and go home.

 

[mattymac]

Still no update?

Obviously this is a last minute, desperation driven action. To not have the people locked away weeks ago is just pathetic.

At the very least it should've been locked and loaded as a contingency we were likely to need to engage after last year. Planning should've been advanced in case we needed to push the button.

At the very latest it should've been launched after the Essendon game. The Carlton game we were in free fall and there are really no excuses for not going after that.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

So you would be happy with Bickley and Van Berlo?

Of course it matters who it is, I'd prefer someone recently retired who came from a successful club (Hawks or WC) and/or went through a similar external review (Cats or Tiges)

The other person to be older with coaching experience who was part of a successful organisation.

Not someone from bloody Freo whose claim to fame post playing is he's president of a union.

Edit: If the remaining two spots are indeed Fages and Pav we might as well pack up and go home.

No.

 

[ManInTheArena]

The review is so obviously a scramble now. Surely we knew we needed one before round 23.

 

[jenny61_99]

We wanted a bona fide external review designed in good faith to repair flaws at the club, not a sham review that amounts to little more than lip service.

How the **** do you know that’s what it is? Jesus Christ... let it play out.

 

[King Elvis]

The review is so obviously a scramble now. Surely we knew we needed one before round 23.

If you take a step back, it's actually quite amusing.

Between Chapman's interview and this process, it is obvious they were hoping to avoid it - and that's why we were pushing so hard for the finals.

Laughable.

 

[hey shorty]

I wonder if they're scrambling due to the backlash from the news that Fagan was involved in some way.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

The review is so obviously a scramble now. Surely we knew we needed one before round 23.

This is how it seems. Where does it rate on the knee-jerk richter scale? Doesn't matter now, just get it done.

 

[hey shorty]

If you take a step back, it's actually quite amusing.

Between Chapman's interview and this process, it is obvious they were hoping to avoid it - and that's why we were pushing so hard for the finals.

Laughable.

Given we all think it's a bit of a furphy and nothing will come of it, why would they care too much about it ??

I think they're **** scared these guys are gonna come for them.

 

[AFC3000]

The review is so obviously a scramble now. Surely we knew we needed one before round 23.

I'm wondering if we had the other 2 locked in because they were going to be an extension of the internal review, outside consultants brought in to look at a couple of specific areas.

Then with all of the pressure, they've decided it needs to be a full "external review" so the scramble to round out the panel.

This would perhaps explain why we are putting it together rather than working with someone like a KPMG like was suggested earlier.

 

[Mismatched]

Starting the review 2 months ago would have been helpful, not waiting until after our season has officially ended.

This would have allowed the reviewers to observe the system in action, with face-to-face access to all of the review's subjects (players, coaches, high performance staff, board members). Oddly enough, Richmond chose to do their 2016 review this way.

In contrast, by starting it now, the club is running on a skeleton staff as the players and many others have gone on leave. There's no way of seeing the systems in action, so all they get is a revisionist version as recited by those with a vested interest in keeping their jobs. Many of the interviews will need to be conducted over the phone or video, rather than doing them face-to-face.

This is my big concern with the review. We needed to start the review, at a bare minimum, 4 weeks ago. Not a week or so after the season has finished.

We’re potentially entering one of our most important list management periods and we’re starting a review which may end up clearing out significant portions of coaching/support staff.

How exactly can Justin Reid effectively plan for trade period and the next few years if he still doesn’t know who our coach will be next year? What player wants to come to us with such a review hanging over us? How can we potentially target assistant coaches?

The timing of the review suggests “missing finals” was the trigger for the review which is pathetic. It was clear well before the end of the season that a review was neeeded, hell it could be argued it was clear after the Rd 4 loss to North Melbourne that things weren’t right!!! However our club is such that a win covers up all sins. Every time we’d win a game, our club would go “see we’ve turned it around”. So instead of getting ahead of the game, we’re hampering our ability to recruit players and staff.

 

[MileraMagic]

Have a read of this Reddit post.


The poster has a very high track record of insider knowledge.

Does look like it was a last minute decision to do the external review.....

 

[hey shorty]

Have a read of this Reddit post.


The poster has a very high track record of insider knowledge.

Does look like it was a last minute decision to do the external review.....

Not saying this guy is wrong, but I genuinely doubt that.

 

[FAITH]

More noise about Pavlich being involved.

Typical Adelaide, we finally get him back to Adelaide only a decade too late.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

This is my big concern with the review. We needed to start the review, at a bare minimum, 4 weeks ago. Not a week or so after the season has finished.

We’re potentially entering one of our most important list management periods and we’re starting a review which may end up clearing out significant portions of coaching/support staff.

How exactly can Justin Reid effectively plan for trade period and the next few years if he still doesn’t know who our coach will be next year? What player wants to come to us with such a review hanging over us? How can we potentially target assistant coaches?

The timing of the review suggests “missing finals” was the trigger for the review which is pathetic. It was clear well before the end of the season that a review was neeeded, hell it could be argued it was clear after the Rd 4 loss to North Melbourne that things weren’t right!!! However our club is such that a win covers up all sins. Every time we’d win a game, our club would go “see we’ve turned it around”. So instead of getting ahead of the game, we’re hampering our ability to recruit players and staff.

I agree 100% that it all seems a bit rushed. However, trade period starts on October 7. Almost 6 weeks away. You'd think we'd know our coach for 2020 by then. You'd think!! Logically, the first part of the review will be assessing the footy department (coaches, players, etc). I share everyone's angst at the process, but smart handlers can still get the job done from here. I've experienced "lightning" reviews in my line of work that genuinely succeeded. Comes down to the quality of people involved, and their participatory attitudes.