Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[theAthenian]

we aint an expansion team - u can compare apples and pears all u like - thats the type of logic one must posses to believe in BMAC

 

[footyfan000001]

He has such a huge emphasis on winning the contested ball - which is all well and good and which we are actually very good at. He deserves time for us to draft some good outside runners with good skills to get a good solid balance in our midfield group and then I will judge our overall game plan in the next couple of years. Since coming to the club he has brought in Clay Smith, Michael Talia, Daniel Pearce, Tory Dickson, Fletcher Roberts, Lin Jong, Tom Campbell, Koby Stevens, Tom Young, Jake Stringer, Jack Macrae, Lachie Hunter and Josh Prudden. A pretty good solid group of youngsters so far. He could have easily come to the club going into season 2012 thinking our window was still open and gone and traded/drafted experience from other clubs and it could have killed us, but at least he has come in and realised we needed to start again. Not sure if that is a stupid way of thinking about it but it keeps me optimistic!

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

I called you high and mighty cause you obviously think you are better than the people who post on the facebook page given your earlier snide remark. They are members too and everyone deserves a say if they are a paying member

You cannot be serious sticking up for the crazy posts on the fb page. It is nothing but negativity and generally people shitting on every update the club makes. Some of the comments are embarrassing, but that is par for the course with facebook.

If sinking the boots into the club at every given opportunity is cool with you, then yeah, that does make me better than the people who post on facebook.

At no point did I take potshots at you either, unless you are one of the flogs posting on facebook. I must have struck a nerve.

 

[Mutt]

Before this season began I expected us to win 5 or maybe, at most, 6 games. I gave us a chance to beat Gold Coast, GWS, Port and Melbourne twice. I figured there is also a chance we might pull an upset win out of somewhere, which gives us 6 wins.

Assuming we drop one game against a team we were expected to beat, but win a game where we were not favoured, and we still get 5 wins. 5 wins is my pass mark.

We have yet to play any of the teams we are expected to be competitive against, but we have one surprise win. We knew, surely, that we will have some very disappointing games - even the very best sides have them.

If you purely consider wins and losses, so far we are travelling about where I expected, or maybe ahead because of the surprise win.

I am disappointed we have not consistently shown more development and improvement so far this season and, like every Bulldogs supporter, I am impatient and would have liked us to have pulled off a couple more wins so far this year.

However, I do not think that the coach is failing or that the team's development is not progressing. I remind myself in my disappointment that two years ago I knew we were in for a long hard haul - that our list was out of balance and very poor compared to teams challenging for finals berths.

I am confident that the club will hold it's nerve in the face of the pressure and negativity that they must have known was going to come during the first three years of the rebuild. Every team undergoing a significant rebuilding expects a lot of criticism and derision.

At the mid-point of next season I expect to feel that we have progressed well down the path to being a good team. If I don't feel that the progress is satisfactory, then at that point, and not before, I will be calling for the club to start looking for a new senior coach.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

in all honestly we arent far off the pace. we have had a few shockers this year, but on the whole, we are quote competitive, we just lack that polish being a young side. and getting all those injuries in round 2 didnt help either.. we are at least competitive when you say compare us to Melbourne. We have a lot more to work with. you can see the effort is there, just young, fatigued at the end of quarters, and lack polish.

add 2-3 more good quality draft picks at the end of the year, and turn over the last of the shit and we are on the right track

macca needs more time.

Good Post wian.

With all the doom and gloom it seems that no allowance is given for extenuating circumstance.

We have had a pretty tough fixture compared to other sides in are range on the table.

We have had significant injury concerns that have caused us to play a less experienced line-up that we would have preferred.

Against North we were competitive and actually in the game until the last quarter. This despite coming off a 6 day break from Perth. The most difficult travel assignment for a Melbourne based team. The time differnce and late night travel plays havoc with recovery.

I don't believe it is a mere coincidence that our younger players were significantly below average in their output, with a couple producing worst ever games. Also not insignificant that our best performers Griffen and Murphy in particular and strong contributions from Gia and Markovic represented output from 4 players who did not even make the trip to Perth.

It takes time to develop and you need a few things working for you to get some results.

PATIENCE is required.

 

[LondonBulldog]

More than happy to give BMac more time, yet ultimately results need to come soon, if we dont win 5 games the pressure will be on him.
Gordon will be tough with him, already moved on Fantasia, another senior figure has been told to preform or he will be let go as well. Not sure Gordon has the same patience that BMac has.

 

[Tommycash]

we aint an expansion team - u can compare apples and pears all u like - thats the type of logic one must posses to believe in BMAC

It's an interesting point. But we are a team that's bottoming out. Much like Melbourne. I think the true test will lie in the speed of the rebound.

 

[TedDougChris]

Who said fitter?
I said competitive for 4 qtrs.

More competitive - that's conveniently nice and general and difficult to define, isn't it...

Please explain why - in detail - we dropped off in the last few minutes of the first, second and third quarters vs North and then for the majority of the last quarter - if this isn't fitness related ??

Did they all collectively decide to play for the coach - but only for 80 minutes a game...?
Did they decide after getting in front that this was enough, North couldn't catch them now ??

I've stuck up for you in the past and agreed with some of your comments, but this is just rubbish mate....

 

[Zgope1]

I must say that St Kilda are probably a good example that we could have done this better. Not to say their long term success will be better than ours but they are in every match they play, we're a bit more inconsistent.

Don't get me wrong, we'd be alright if we had the best CHF of our generation running around in AA form, but we definitely have some quality players that haven't been as good as theirs since Macca's arrival.

It's an ideological thing. Watters won't let his team be uncompetitive, and he's backing Pelchen to pick up talent without low picks and trade aggressively. We're drafting and developing a bit more and we have had a bigger injury list over that time. Having said that it'd be great if we could get over Carlton when we should as well. If we were playing Carlton last night and they lost two players in the first 15 minutes against us, i still wouldn't expect us to win.

There in lies the problem at the moment. Although we can all see a fair bit from our youngster, probably more than the Saints can from theirs, we NEED a few wins. I'm getting a little bit touchy at the moment but there is no doubt that the pressure will be on Macca as to how he finishes this year. The lack of wins can't go on for the rest of the year.

Thankfully i think we will start stringing form together towards the end of this year. But if we don't i don't think i'll be so defensive about Macca, these boys have certainly forgotten how to win for the moment.

 

[gimp!]

I must say that St Kilda are probably a good example that we could have done this better. Not to say their long term success will be better than ours but they are in every match they play, we're a bit more inconsistent.

Ask most Saints supporters about what they think of Scott Watters.

 

[Zgope1]

Ask most Saints supporters about what they think of Scott Watters.

My best mates a Saints fan, loves the guy. Probably won't love him as much if they lose a few. That's how it is i suppose. As i explained they've had a better run of injuries with their top end talent and players like Riewoldt are of unbelievable quality too. Although most teams would pick Griff because of his age, Hayes has probably been more valuable to them over the last 18 months than Griff has been to us. I should add too that they didn't have their list gutted like we did, losing Ward and Harbrow.

There are excuses as to why they're playing better, but we'd all be more bullish if we were beating Carlton. Hopefully we win a few games like Saturday by the end of the year, because as fans we need wins.

 

[Tommycash]

Ask most Saints supporters about what they think of Scott Watters.

In fairness to Watters, most saints supporters still seem to think of themselves as top 8 material.

 

[boydsno1]

If we still had Barry Hall running around we would have been in and maybe won more games. 1 player of his quality like the saints have with Nick can help a young side look better then they are. Take out Nick and the Saints would be just as uncompetitve as us for parts of matches.

 

[Zgope1]

Yeah, even if we had to get rid of Mccartney at the end of next year, he'd have facilitated the fast tracked development of Libba, Wallis, Smith, two kpps in Rough and Jones, Stringer, Macrae who in my opinion could all take their games to elite one day. If Macca were to lose his job by 2015 i reckon another coach would be licking their lips and feed off the development he's put into these kids.

St Kilda don't have as much to be excited about. Jack Steven and Rhys Stanley, having said that Rhys Stanley shut down Statue Hampson last night and it's not our fault our equivalent of Steven age wise was Ward who is no doubt better.

 

[TedDougChris]

I must say that St Kilda are probably a good example that we could have done this better. Not to say their long term success will be better than ours but they are in every match they play, we're a bit more inconsistent.

Don't get me wrong, we'd be alright if we had the best CHF of our generation running around in AA form, but we definitely have some quality players that haven't been as good as theirs since Macca's arrival.

It's an ideological thing. Watters won't let his team be uncompetitive, and he's backing Pelchen to pick up talent without low picks and trade aggressively. We're drafting and developing a bit more and we have had a bigger injury list over that time. Having said that it'd be great if we could get over Carlton when we should as well. If we were playing Carlton last night and they lost two players in the first 15 minutes against us, i still wouldn't expect us to win.

There in lies the problem at the moment. Although we can all see a fair bit from our youngster, probably more than the Saints can from theirs, we NEED a few wins. I'm getting a little bit touchy at the moment but there is no doubt that the pressure will be on Macca as to how he finishes this year. The lack of wins can't go on for the rest of the year.

Thankfully i think we will start stringing form together towards the end of this year. But if we don't i don't think i'll be so defensive about Macca, these boys have certainly forgotten how to win for the moment.

Our Golden generation of players were drafted earlier than the Saints. Gilbee, Hargrave, Murphy, Cross and co were before St Nick and the others were picked up (I think).

Just give it a year or so and the wheels will well and truly fall off the Saints wagon. Given how reluctant other clubs are to trade with Pelchen, I don't see that as a win either...

 

[StringyDog]

I must say that St Kilda are probably a good example that we could have done this better. Not to say their long term success will be better than ours but they are in every match they play, we're a bit more inconsistent.

St Kilda are about half way between us in 2011/12, you can see it falling apart but Hall (Riewoldt) stopped the complete collapse. Riewoldt is completely holding that ship together, Milne is finished can't tackle, is slow and every kick is a shank or turnover now, Hayes is slowing considerably as is Fisher. They have no development in any talls outside of Stanley, they are basically heading for what we would look like now without father son picks and 0 years development into Jones/Roughead/Cordy/Talia. I wouldn't trade places with them for all the money in the world.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

lol So true. ST Kilda are a perfect example of what the bulldogs would have done in previous years. Hold on for dear life and ignore the 100ft drop till the branch breaks.

 

[Zgope1]

St Kilda are about half way between us in 2011/12, you can see it falling apart but Hall (Riewoldt) stopped the complete collapse. Riewoldt is completely holding that ship together, Milne is finished can't tackle, is slow and every kick is a shank or turnover now, Hayes is slowing considerably as is Fisher. They have no development in any talls outside of Stanley, they are basically heading for what we would look like now without father son picks and 0 years development into Jones/Roughead/Cordy/Talia. I wouldn't trade places with them for all the money in the world.

Fair enough. Like i said it doesn't reflect how both clubs futures look i just know a few of us doggies fans would love to be beating carlton. Good call, now that i think about it it does remind me of our 2011

We're pretty comparable with Gold Coast tbh, except our young talls were drafted in 08 and theirs in '10. Libba has been as good as any of their youngster, Wallis up there with his output. Smith up there. and Macrae and Stringer could be just as good as any on their young ones.

I remember on friday night i heard we're one of 4 teams that have improved both offensively and defensively since last year. Haven't played either expansion teams or melbourne yet... so... end thread? haha

 

[ErnieSigley]

More competitive - that's conveniently nice and general and difficult to define, isn't it...

Please explain why - in detail - we dropped off in the last few minutes of the first, second and third quarters vs North and then for the majority of the last quarter - if this isn't fitness related ??

Did they all collectively decide to play for the coach - but only for 80 minutes a game...?
Did they decide after getting in front that this was enough, North couldn't catch them now ??

I've stuck up for you in the past and agreed with some of your comments, but this is just rubbish mate....

If you are talking about that 1 specific game the it maybe was fitness.
The other 16 games where we havent been competitive, there are a range of facets like poor selections, poor game style, poor skills, poor matchups, etc.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

If you are talking about that 1 specific game the it maybe was fitness.
The other 16 games where we havent been competitive, there are a range of facets like poor selections, poor game style, poor skills, poor matchups, etc.

I could probably accuse Multhouse of failing in any one or all of those last night.

 

[StringyDog]

I could probably accuse Multhouse of failing in any one or all of those last night.

SACK HIM!!!

 

[ThirdLegUp]

exactly

 

[GetDimmaBack]

lol So true. ST Kilda are a perfect example of what the bulldogs would have done in previous years. Hold on for dear life and ignore the 100ft drop till the branch breaks.

Quoted for being spot on!

 

[TedDougChris]

If you are talking about that 1 specific game the it maybe was fitness.
The other 16 games where we havent been competitive, there are a range of facets like poor selections, poor game style, poor skills, poor matchups, etc.

I'll concede poor selections on a number of occasions this year, I've nominated 4 or 5 cases previously of bad decisions by the MC. I'll concede poor matchups, although Macca has previously stated he is happy to leave players on a good player in order to learn - this is potentially a good thing when handled correctly.

Poor game style and skills are more difficult to resolve. We may not have the cattle with the experience to play the game style we would like to - so is it the game style or the people here. The question of does the game style diminish our skills, or are our skills failing to implement the game style springs to mind...

And let's be honest. There were games last year where we were rubbish. Everyone agrees that. Richmond, the Eagles and Adelaide this year weren't much chop either. But we haven't been uncompetitive for 16 or 17 or 18 games straight.

 

[jakeystringer]