News Tim Kelly traded to West Coast - ***Opposition fans read the OP***

[Swarhily]

Nope.

What would you see as reasonable?

 

[Wojcinski]

This trade will set up our future. Considering we got pick 19 as Motflop compo which then was trade for GAJ + 24 we used on Kelly. That's pretty good.

Turning Motlop into 2 seasons of TK, 3 of GAJ plus 2 first rounders and a second rounder. We've done well.

 

[Ricketz]

For me yeah. Would prefer that 32 to get a bit better somehow, but close enough.

Agreed two mid range first rounders and an early second seems about right.

 

[bulletproof]

Tough to take. Loved this guy. Loved his quiet, steely determination, his brilliant ball gathering, smooth moving and clinical finishing. A rare player, who we only saw too briefly in the hoops.

Proud we gave him his opportunity and brought out his best.

Hope Cockatoo or Narkle grind him into the turf in a Kardinia Park final next year.

Take the draft picks and roll the dice.

 

[Strange Cat]

What would you see as reasonable?

Freo pics

 

[you pick one]

View attachment 757278

That poor kid need help.

 

[Ricketz]

This trade will set up our future. Considering we got pick 19 as Motflop compo which then was trade for GAJ + 24 we used on Kelly. That's pretty good.

Turning Motlop into 2 seasons of TK, 3 of GAJ plus 2 first rounders and a second rounder. We've done well.

Best year ever from Stevie!

(I actually love the guy, wished he could have put it together with us)

 

[00VicWard001]

I don’t recall a Tim Kelly ever playing for Geelong

Playing for himself?

 

[Ricketz]

Tough to take. Loved this guy. Loved his quiet, steely determination, his brilliant ball gathering, smooth moving and clinical finishing. A rare player, who we only saw too briefly in the hoops.

Proud we gave him his opportunity and brought out his best.

Hope Cockatoo or Narkle grind him into the turf in a Kardinia Park final next year.

Take the draft picks and roll the dice.

Narkle showed he same evasive ability in close during the finals. I rate him, and think he has potential to be better than TK, with more time to clean up his disposal.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Straw man. Actually your post is probably even a worse fallacy than that.

Well, then, what about
Bloody Cam Guthrie!

 

[Live in hope]

Rumour is the Eagles and Dockers have come to a side agreement already, involving aspects outside the draft entirely and West Coast agreeing to support certain Freo desires within the AFL. It's basically you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours.
Should Geelong become intractably obstinate and Kelly end up in the draft, Freo has agreed not to bid in return for this support!
These side deals are rarely done but Geelong positioning has required a plan be designed in preparation.

Should the draft route end up being a reality (very unlikely), Kelly will end up at the Eagles with player association support. It is understood no Eastern States sides are even considering the possibility of chasing him under the circumstances.
If the uncontracted player is threatened with restraint of trade, Geelong will pay.

As a side note it is only a matter of time before trade restraint within the AFL systems is tested further legally outside the AFL system. The more these types of strong arm tactics are attempted to be utilised, particularly concerning uncontracted players, the more likely the AFL will eventually lose it's current ability levels to effectively force trade restraints.

Below is a genuine legal opinion regarding some of the AFL trade restraints that have never been truly tested. The last point (6) particularly applies here.
MAKE NO MISTAKE. Not even the AFL wants Geelong to over play their hand. There are lots of plans in place should they make the mistake of doing so.

1)Not allowing true free agency is a minor benefit to the league as a whole, but greatly interferes with an employee’s ability to work for his employer of choice, when the employer has the means and capacity to employ him. The AFL has essentially conceded this point by introducing limited free agency recently, but even though they have not publicly acknowledged it, they must understand they are fighting a rear-guard action on this issue.

2)The draft is a separate question but one with the same test. What is the broader benefit to the league and the sport in telling 18 year olds where they must start their careers? What benefit is gained that the salary cap does not already create? Again, none that is obvious. And again, do the sports that don’t have a draft suffer from a poor distribution of talent? No.

3)Redistribution of footballing talent is better determined by an open market rather than the diktat of a draft or by otherwise preventing them the same ability to work where they want, that the rest of us have.

4) IMO the AFL as a competition would not be worse off without a draft or with free agency as the salary cap is the most effective way to make sure there is an even distribution of talent.

5)Arguably the cap would be even more effective if players were completely free to find a club that was able to pay the player their true value.

6)I’m confident that should an out-of-contract player be prevented from joining a club of his choice, when his preferred club has the capacity and means to do so, that a court would strike out the league rules that prevent his freedom of employment.

(sic)

Goosecat - you are right that the restraint of trade option is there and indeed there was a successful case decades ago (Silvio Facini ? Swans-Saints, I think). Interestingly, despite this has not been pursued again - I suspect that the acquiring club burnt heaps of goodwill with the VFL (as it then was), something that clubs are pretty reluctant to do. Who knows what financial or other assistance they might miss out on going forward.

It would also be disastrous for the comp if resorted to pure ‘market rules’ - massively escalating player payments, a few mega rich clubs dominating, others perpetually struggling or going to the wall. And as pointed out by others, heaps of Vic and SA recruits would eventually want to return home, leave the west and northern clubs, just as much the other way. At best, a return to the bad old days of State xenophobia. Be careful what you pray for.

 

[you pick one]

Didnt Nathan "dollars" Buckley spend his first year at Brisbane? And then went to the pies

Yep wanted to play in a premiership side,No Flags then watched the lions win three would have been 4 if Bucks had stayed there.Karma.

 

[Swarhily]

Freo pics

I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

 

[Ricketz]

Goosecat - you are right that the option is there and indeed there was a successful case decades ago (Silvio Facini ? Swans-Saints, I think). Interestingly, despite this has not been pursued again - I suspect that the acquiring club burnt heaps of goodwill with the VFL as it then was, something that clubs are pretty reluctant to do.

It would be disastrous for the comp if resorted to pure ‘market rules’ - massively escalating player payments, a few mega rich clubs dominating, others perpetually struggling or going to the wall. And as pointed out heaps of Vic and SA recruits would eventually want to return home, leave the west and North just as much the other way. At best a return to bad old days of State xenophobia. Be careful what you pray for.

That option is not there for the reasons you state. It is draft tampering and were Kelly to go the draft and Freo pass on him, Peter Bell has implicated himself on trade radio.

 

[Ricketz]

I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

Better come up with something better then

 

[Down at K Park]

Rumour is the Eagles and Dockers have come to a side agreement already, involving aspects outside the draft entirely and West Coast agreeing to support certain Freo desires within the AFL. It's basically you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours.
Should Geelong become intractably obstinate and Kelly end up in the draft, Freo has agreed not to bid in return for this support!
These side deals are rarely done but Geelong positioning has required a plan be designed in preparation.

Should the draft route end up being a reality (very unlikely), Kelly will end up at the Eagles with player association support. It is understood no Eastern States sides are even considering the possibility of chasing him under the circumstances.
If the uncontracted player is threatened with restraint of trade, Geelong will pay.

As a side note it is only a matter of time before trade restraint within the AFL systems is tested further legally outside the AFL system. The more these types of strong arm tactics are attempted to be utilised, particularly concerning uncontracted players, the more likely the AFL will eventually lose it's current ability levels to effectively force trade restraints.

Below is a genuine legal opinion regarding some of the AFL trade restraints that have never been truly tested. The last point (6) particularly applies here.
MAKE NO MISTAKE. Not even the AFL wants Geelong to over play their hand. There are lots of plans in place should they make the mistake of doing so.

1)Not allowing true free agency is a minor benefit to the league as a whole, but greatly interferes with an employee’s ability to work for his employer of choice, when the employer has the means and capacity to employ him. The AFL has essentially conceded this point by introducing limited free agency recently, but even though they have not publicly acknowledged it, they must understand they are fighting a rear-guard action on this issue.

2)The draft is a separate question but one with the same test. What is the broader benefit to the league and the sport in telling 18 year olds where they must start their careers? What benefit is gained that the salary cap does not already create? Again, none that is obvious. And again, do the sports that don’t have a draft suffer from a poor distribution of talent? No.

3)Redistribution of footballing talent is better determined by an open market rather than the diktat of a draft or by otherwise preventing them the same ability to work where they want, that the rest of us have.

4) IMO the AFL as a competition would not be worse off without a draft or with free agency as the salary cap is the most effective way to make sure there is an even distribution of talent.

5)Arguably the cap would be even more effective if players were completely free to find a club that was able to pay the player their true value.

6)I’m confident that should an out-of-contract player be prevented from joining a club of his choice, when his preferred club has the capacity and means to do so, that a court would strike out the league rules that prevent his freedom of employment.

(sic)

So they are draft tampering. Steve hocking would love to hear this. He’s one of ours you know.


Simon lloyd just on the news saying we are demanding adequate compensation.

 

[Nickoo]

I don't think Kelly has demanded. I will go with the Club's wording, not the managers.

Exactly. Van der wheels. Is just trying to get the narrative back. TK can’t nominate in the fashion of a free agent or RFA as I understand it which is why the club made that point in their statement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Strange Cat]

I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

That’s nice dear

 

[Warhorse]

I would take 13 and 22 this year and a fringe player.

In this draft is see a clear top 2. From 3-14 are even. The 15-25 are even as well.

The fringe players I would ask for are Cameron or Waterman. Waterman is the perfect 3rd tall and west coast already have other options in that role. Cameron fits a need as well.

If wells doesn't like this draft I would ask to trade for Brayshaw from Melbourne. They are stacked for that type of midfielder. He is a great all round midfield who plays inside and out while also running defensively when require.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Goosecat - you are right that the option is there and indeed there was a successful case decades ago (Silvio Facini ? Swans-Saints, I think). Interestingly, despite this has not been pursued again - I suspect that the acquiring club burnt heaps of goodwill with the VFL as it then was, something that clubs are pretty reluctant to do.

It would be disastrous for the comp if resorted to pure ‘market rules’ - massively escalating player payments, a few mega rich clubs dominating, others perpetually struggling or going to the wall. And as pointed out heaps of Vic and SA recruits would eventually want to return home, leave the west and North just as much the other way. At best a return to bad old days of State xenophobia. Be careful what you pray for.

Let's just say (just hypothetically), a property development company WC is sponsered by or invested in has built a nice house.
Actually funnily enough a house that would be just perfect for the Kelly's, like they've almost read their minds and know exactly how they'd like it.
Then say, sell that house at a very reasonable price to the Kelly's.
Would that breach any AFL rules?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Hence all the emotional stuff like ONLY west coast can offer what his family need. He’s not a free agent so he can’t do anything he wants. That was veiled from GFC. Who I reckon are fed up with the circus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

He's uncontracted so a lot more liberated than last trade period. It's now a matter of who blinks first because if Tim wants to get to WA, Geelong can hold up a deal with WCE until they come to the table with a better offer or he concedes Freo as a real option, though that leaves Geelong open to potentially losing him for nothing, and we know that realistically that won't happen.

 

[Farang83150]

No posters with Kelly in WC gear please that too much like trolling ..and im reasonably moderate..

Is it true the same was done with Dangerfield just before he left the Crows?

 

[Swarhily]

Better come up with something better then

2019 + 2020 first and this years second seems likely. It's unders but I'm not sure how it gets better than that.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Narkle showed he same evasive ability in close during the finals. I rate him, and think he has potential to be better than TK, with more time to clean up his disposal.

Needs to work on his defensive game as well.

 

[Ricketz]

Kelly offered five year 650k deal by WCE, according to Mitch Cleary?

Is his manager a deadset moron?