Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

[gangsta deluxe]

The distance to Cable Beach doesnt matter - what matters is the flights mate. Much easier from Perth.

 

[BrisDog]

These guys are not 12 years old and well and truly have the money to buy airfares whenever it suits them. Yep, the 'go home' excuse is rubbish for mine as well.

 

[LittleG]

Hamling did admit it was the money. More money per year and more years offered by Freo. They say 'go home factor' to try and keep the focus off how much Freo are overpaying him.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Buckenarra's article was refreshingly spot on about our list IMO, until the Williams and Hamilton howlers. Very strange indeed.

Bloody hell im excited about Williams. Said it before, but I'm more excited about him than josh Dunkley. And I bloody love Dunkley.

Me too. I don't know what it is about Williams, but I like the look of him a lot.

Dale, Webb, Williams, Honeychurch, Collins and on and on.

To borrow a line from Derwayne, our depth is crazy good.

 

[bobby2]

Ive been stewing on the Hamling decision to leave the club..
I'm not happy hes requested a trade to Freo so he can play with his mate Kersten.
Its not a family decision as they live in Cable Beach, which is a long way from Perth!
Anyone else feel ripped off?
A player who was delisted by his first club and thanks to the dogs was handed a rookie list lifeline when IIRC, no one else was interested.
Now less than 2 years later, he is a premiership KD with quality scalps and he decides its time to leave!
No wonder trade period has turned into a dogs breakfast, in a perfect world clubs will just be trying to improve their own lists.
Now with the perceived player power, trade period has turned into finding homes for dissatisfied players.
Tail wagging dog far too much?!
Or should I be looking at this from another angle?

Another angle would probably be a good idea:

A player who we acquired for free played a key role in helping us to win our first premiership in 62 years, and then netted us something on the trade table (albeit something small). That's a huge win for the club. It's also a huge win for Hamling, as he's gotten to be a premiership player. This has been a very mutually beneficial relationship.

Does it really matter why he is going? Whether money or Kersten or family (realistically, it's probably a combination of all three), he has fulfilled his contract with us and should be able to seek another employer- especially if the alternative employer was willing to offer him better job security than we were. How would you feel if your boss said to you (when you were out of contract): "sorry, we're only going to offer you a short term contract, but you can't explore other opportunities to secure your future"? I know I'd tell my boss to **** off.

"Player power" is an odd phrase that gets bandied about without much consideration. It's really just a simple supply and demand situation. A player has power when multiple clubs want him (lots of demand), as he can choose the best option for himself. A player has no power when no clubs want him (no demand), as he will get delisted and his career will be over- the vast majority of list changes are delistings. Nobody complains about "club power" when the club ends the relationship, but apparently it's a problem when the player does it.

How should clubs react to this new landscape? The good clubs do two key things:

1. Make a good atmosphere for players, so that they are encouraged to stay/ask for a trade to your club.
2. When a player does want to leave, handle it professionally and try to make the best of the situation. It happens to every club. Some clubs have a sook (like Gold Coast), but good clubs just get on with it. A player leaving doesn't have to be a bad thing. Look at what hawthorn did after Franklin left and what we did after Griffen, Cooney, Higgins, Jones and Tutt left.

 

[geoffjennings79]

I'm not across all Hamling's personal issues, but did read some where that part of the enticement was being closer to family - as far as I can ascertain his father lives in Denmark (the town) which is only 4 hours or so from Perth by car in the south of WA. Not sure if his mother is in Broome or closer to Perth. Joel was recruited from Broome, doesn't mean he plans to fly there often from Perth though.
Anyway - he is now one of a select 42 premiership players. He'd have to do something pretty bad towards our club or society in general for me to alter my opinion of him as an onfield representative during the successful 2016 finals campaign.
All the best JH... (Except against us of course!)

 

[stefoid]

Fletch can play on talls and smalls .. just so fliexible!

Buckenarra's article was refreshingly spot on about our list IMO, until the Williams and Hamilton howlers. Very strange indeed.

Bloody hell im excited about Williams. Said it before, but I'm more excited about him than josh Dunkley. And I bloody love Dunkley.

I had a chuckle about versatile Fletcher playing on talls and smalls.

Also the recruiting for kickers thing is off base. That was Hawthorn, Bucks, we have recruited for contested ball and good old fashioned footy-ability. No way Smith or Dunkley would have been invited to wear yellow and Brown - same reason Kennedy was gifted to the swans.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Ive been stewing on the Hamling decision to leave the club..
I'm not happy hes requested a trade to Freo so he can play with his mate Kersten.
Its not a family decision as they live in Cable Beach, which is a long way from Perth!
Anyone else feel ripped off?
A player who was delisted by his first club and thanks to the dogs was handed a rookie list lifeline when IIRC, no one else was interested.
Now less than 2 years later, he is a premiership KD with quality scalps and he decides its time to leave!
No wonder trade period has turned into a dogs breakfast, in a perfect world clubs will just be trying to improve their own lists.
Now with the perceived player power, trade period has turned into finding homes for dissatisfied players.
Tail wagging dog far too much?!
Or should I be looking at this from another angle?

probably reading too much into it i reckon. A few points to consider:

- Was out of contract
- They offered a bigger contract
- Closer to home
- Moves to same club as his best mate
- We couldn't guarantee him games (unlikely to have played if Adams wasn't injured - and Adams is back next year)
- He actually only played a handful of good games (well timed good games though!) so who knows what his future holds (i.e. understandable to take the bigger contract when you've been a fringe player all career).

 

[54 to 16]

Another angle would probably be a good idea:

A player who we acquired for free played a key role in helping us to win our first premiership in 62 years, and then netted us something on the trade table (albeit something small). That's a huge win for the club. It's also a huge win for Hamling, as he's gotten to be a premiership player. This has been a very mutually beneficial relationship.

Does it really matter why he is going? Whether money or Kersten or family (realistically, it's probably a combination of all three), he has fulfilled his contract with us and should be able to seek another employer- especially if the alternative employer was willing to offer him better job security than we were. How would you feel if your boss said to you (when you were out of contract): "sorry, we're only going to offer you a short term contract, but you can't explore other opportunities to secure your future"? I know I'd tell my boss to **** off.

"Player power" is an odd phrase that gets bandied about without much consideration. It's really just a simple supply and demand situation. A player has power when multiple clubs want him (lots of demand), as he can choose the best option for himself. A player has no power when no clubs want him (no demand), as he will get delisted and his career will be over- the vast majority of list changes are delistings. Nobody complains about "club power" when the club ends the relationship, but apparently it's a problem when the player does it.

How should clubs react to this new landscape? The good clubs do two key things:

1. Make a good atmosphere for players, so that they are encouraged to stay/ask for a trade to your club.
2. When a player does want to leave, handle it professionally and try to make the best of the situation. It happens to every club. Some clubs have a sook (like Gold Coast), but good clubs just get on with it. A player leaving doesn't have to be a bad thing. Look at what hawthorn did after Franklin left and what we did after Griffen, Cooney, Higgins, Jones and Tutt left.

Well said

 

[The Inbetweener]

Spoke to someone semi connected to the club who usually gets good mail.

Reckons no DFA for us

 

[jdz101]

Dunkley will always be slightly limited due to his lack of ability to get the right distance on his field kicks.

Williams I see no such limiting factors. He will be a stud. Colour me excited.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Dunkley will always be slightly limited due to his lack of ability to get the right distance on his field kicks.

Williams I see no such limiting factors. He will be a stud. Colour me excited.

Your avatar already does that

 

[Doggy]

Spoke to someone semi connected to the club who usually gets good mail.

Reckons no DFA for us

Delisting Prudden made no sense then..

 

[VitalDread]

Delisting Prudden made no sense then..

Maybe we wanted to use 4 picks in the draft

 

[ScragCity]

Dunkley will always be slightly limited due to his lack of ability to get the right distance on his field kicks.

Williams I see no such limiting factors. He will be a stud. Colour me excited.

So misjudging the distance of your kicks is a physical limitation rather than a skill that can be improved? Dumbest thing I've seen you post for a while.

Here are some limitations of Willams: He's not 7-foot tall and never will be. He can't run as fast as Usain Bolt and never will.

^those are examples of actual limitations rather than skills which can be improved on.

 

[jdz101]

So misjudging the distance of your kicks is a physical limitation rather than a skill that can be improved? Dumbest thing I've seen you post for a while.

Yeah. I'm not going to bother explaining footskills being a talent and technique related thing just as much as a hard-work related thing to you.

You're clearly in one of your smartass combative moods.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Dunkley will always be slightly limited due to his lack of ability to get the right distance on his field kicks.

Williams I see no such limiting factors. He will be a stud. Colour me excited.

I'm a big fan of Williams too. One remaining concern is his tendency to get caught a bit at both levels - just needs to be a tad quicker sometimes, but I'm confident he can work that out of his game. Once he does he'll be a ripper.

 

[ScragCity]

Yeah. I'm not going to bother explaining footskills being a talent and technique related thing just as much as a hard-work related thing to you.

You're clearly in one of your smartass combative moods.

You don't think that skills and techniques can be developed and improved? So Dunkley's ability to kick a football would be exactly the same as it is now even if he had never practiced it in his life, according to your thought-process. That's pretty hilarious.

This just in: Reputed bigfooty poster jdz101 claims that all first year players are as good as they will ever be and their kicking skills will never get better at any point over the next 10-15 years of their careers.

 

[jdz101]

You don't think that skills and techniques can be developed and improved? So Dunkley's ability to kick a football would be exactly the same as it is now even if he had never practiced it in his life, according to your thought-process. That's pretty hilarious.

I doubt you're laughing.

In my opinion, Josh Dunkley will always be in the bottom third of the team as far as the quality of his field kicking is concerned. That's ok, he is elite in other areas.

That's all I'll say on the matter. You can put your pitchfork away.

 

[maddog37]

Get him Scrag!!

 

[paulveed]

This is supposed to be a 'Team' as distinct from an individual sport. Therefore to my mind the Team should always come first. A few years ago, the clubs perhaps had to much power over players. Now, like in so many repaired inequitable situations, we have likely gone to far in the opposite direction. Now the players have to much control. Let us hope the League sees this, and finds a more stable middle ground, before AFL finishes up like soccer, rugby league and many US sports, where you don't know from one week to the next who will be on your roster, and who is coming and going willy nilly.

 

[Doggy Dan]

I'm a big fan of Williams too. One remaining concern is his tendency to get caught a bit at both levels - just needs to be a tad quicker sometimes, but I'm confident he can work that out of his game. Once he does he'll be a ripper.

No way, the fact he holds onto the ball a little longer than most shows poise and is near on impossible to teach. He gets caught sometimes , who cares. IMO it's a great attribute, why would you train that out of him?

 

[immortalmike]

I'm a big fan of Williams too. One remaining concern is his tendency to get caught a bit at both levels - just needs to be a tad quicker sometimes, but I'm confident he can work that out of his game. Once he does he'll be a ripper.

Get what you're saying. Often see him get away with it at lower levels but he'll be punished for it at AFL level more often than not. But part of me is loathe to change it too much though as I think it can be game changing when it comes off. Maybe it's just an experience thing as you suggest.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

No way, the fact he holds onto the ball a little longer than most shows poise and is near on impossible to teach. He gets caught sometimes , who cares. IMO it's a great attribute, why would you train that out of him?

We're largely in agreement. There's a difference between poise and being slow to dispose of the ball though. Bont "holds onto the ball a little longer than most," for example, but rarely gets caught holding the ball. Ditto a number of others on our list. I don't want to train Williams' tendency to hold onto it and weigh up his options out of him, not at all - that's his biggest strength. He just needs to be a little more aware of how little time he has sometimes. At AFL level a rushed disposal is the frustration of most supporters, but 95 times out of 100, a quick kick that gains 30-40 metres but gets turned over is a better option than getting caught and turning the ball over in the middle of the ground - and I've seen Williams do that at VFL level a bit more than your average player. It's an experience thing, just learning when he needs to go a little bit quicker. I have no doubt in my mind that he'll be a very good player, though.

 

[ossie_21]

Maybe we wanted to use 4 picks in the draft

Can only see that being a benefit if Dal his his eyes on a bottom age player to take late this year instead of them (in his eyes) going top 20/30 next year