List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[Lord of the Wings]

I don’t know that we will be able to finish bottom few any time soon…. Our 23-30yo core group is just too strong, and there are very promising signs from the likes of Gibcus, Dow, Ralphsmith and MRJ.

Here is the core of our team from 2023-2026, so it’s taking out anyone who is 30+ right now:

B: Baker. Gibcus. Mansell
HB. Vlastuin. Balta. Rioli
C. Graham. Prestia. Ralphsmith
HF. Bolton. Lynch. Clarke
F. MRJ. Ryan. Cumberland.
R. Nankervis Short. Dow
I/C: Soldo. McIntosh. Broad . Stack

There are obviously a few unknowns here, but to me it doesn’t look like a bottom-4 team… which may cause an issue with our ‘refresh’ … who knows ?


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Pudding guts on a wing and Ryan at FF! LOL

 

[Infamy]

needs a new hip never heard of anyone doing that, play with a new hip

That’s coz you couldn’t , will be walking like he’s bandy legged after the replacement , afl footy will be furtherest thing from his mind

Not sure if that's still the case, hip replacement can be done as a day surgery now, even potentially walking out without crutches
Andy Murray needed to get it done and is back winning ATP titles since his return
Kane's age doesn't help him given our list profile, but if he wants to play on then I'd hope we give him the chance to do so

 

[Bojangles17]

Because he requested a trade while out of contract....

And was nowhere near getting a game at the time ,, we aren’t GC that offer reserves players 400k contracts to stay , hope that clarifies

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

If plunging to bottom of ladder to scoop the draft was an unequivocal means to an end then GWS and GC would have shared the majority of flags in modern history
Winning premiership demands more than early picks , a bit of luck , coaching mastery and importantly key players that stand up when it counts. None of these have anything to do with draft picks ,, you just need to be a contender first

Perhaps. But a caveat to those two teams is what they've lost. Factoring in retention is important to that point of a period lower ladder finishes and acquiring numerous high draft picks. Even if you put back half of the players the Suns and Giants have lost, they would definitely have played in more finals, with the Giants maybe pinching one (hahaha...well actually no on that!).
Admittedly they were also compensated well with more picks when they lost players, but you get more kids without experience and affects the game plan if you bring in experience too, so it's a difficult one.
If we make finals this year and next, we will need to get creative with a trade or two to get at least one A grade mid. I am not confident with what we have is going to be able to match it with top 4 teams in the future. And if we don't get a top 5 pick to get a mid, a trade will be needed.

 

[SleepingGiant]

Dropping into the bottom 2-4 doesn't guarantee you rebound into premiership contention. Melbourne were bottom 2 with us the year we got Martin and they got Scully and Trengove, 4 seasons later they were back in the bottom 2-3 again, while we were making a climb towards the finals and even then it still took them another 7 seasons before they were able to finally win a premiership.

Since 2010 our lowest finish was 13th in 2016 and during those years we didn't get access to the very best top end talent as it was mainly taken by the expansion sides, so the belief that we need to bottom out to get back to being a premiership contender is not a necessity IMO. As it stands we're mid table this year while we've also been able to put game time into a lot of our next generation. Some of them will step up and be long term prospects, some of them won't take their chance and will be left behind.

Smart trading and free agency acquisitions can help keep us competitive and thereabouts for the finals, while we keep bringing through young talent. Lets not forget that last draft we got 5 highly rated kids that have been able to come in and learn from a team full of premiership stars who know what it takes to get to the top and they will have set examples for those kids to learn from. At the end of this year we're a chance to bring in another 3-4 highly rated kids which will give us a good foundation to build on and will allow us the opportunity if we desire to chase a ready made established youngster in 2023 if we don't go down that path at the end of this year.

You're conveniently ignoring that our best players in our premiership core were attained from 2006-2010 being Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Rance, Edwards, etc and without those bottom finishes we have none of those players and without them there is absolutely ZERO chance we win any premierships. You need a few top 3 to top 10 draft picks to contend at a minimum. This whole we built our list with compromised drafts needs to stop when you look at where we finished and the link to them being our best players.

 

[Goshka]

Kinda wondering why we still don't have Stengle, his output seems to be more productive than George at present.

Because we kept that dud George beCuZ hE hAs FrEe MeDaLz

 

[Bird Man]

no matter how we finish this year I would trade Dion for a top 10 pick which is overs but if he stays fit for most of the year I can see clubs paying it.

We need to fast track this rebuild and being sentimental with players is a killer to the future progress of the club.

 

[tiger_tough]

no matter how we finish this year I would trade Dion for a top 10 pick which is overs but if he stays fit for most of the year I can see clubs paying it.

We need to fast track this rebuild and being sentimental with players is a killer to the future progress of the club.

1. No ones giving a top 10 pick for Prestia.
2. We need more gun midfielders, not less.

 

[Lacustrus]

Because we kept that dud George beCuZ hE hAs FrEe MeDaLz

your commitment to your whipping boy is outstanding ...

 

[tigerdan]

Dropping into the bottom 2-4 doesn't guarantee you rebound into premiership contention. Melbourne were bottom 2 with us the year we got Martin and they got Scully and Trengove, 4 seasons later they were back in the bottom 2-3 again, while we were making a climb towards the finals and even then it still took them another 7 seasons before they were able to finally win a premiership.

Since 2010 our lowest finish was 13th in 2016 and during those years we didn't get access to the very best top end talent as it was mainly taken by the expansion sides, so the belief that we need to bottom out to get back to being a premiership contender is not a necessity IMO. As it stands we're mid table this year while we've also been able to put game time into a lot of our next generation. Some of them will step up and be long term prospects, some of them won't take their chance and will be left behind.

Smart trading and free agency acquisitions can help keep us competitive and thereabouts for the finals, while we keep bringing through young talent. Lets not forget that last draft we got 5 highly rated kids that have been able to come in and learn from a team full of premiership stars who know what it takes to get to the top and they will have set examples for those kids to learn from. At the end of this year we're a chance to bring in another 3-4 highly rated kids which will give us a good foundation to build on and will allow us the opportunity if we desire to chase a ready made established youngster in 2023 if we don't go down that path at the end of this year.

The right thing to do is be very careful at trade time when we can trade out some players with premiership medals to their name. Yes, to the #triggered mob, that could even mean trading George to Carlton.

Clubs that have been shit for ages are always looking to add a *former premiership player to their list because if you get the right one, it actually helps to bring in a guy who knows what it takes.

The tricky bit is trading out the right players, because Essendon traded the wrong ones after 2000 and it ripped the soul out of the club.

I don't condone the Geelong strategy (especially after the Kelly trade) because that sold out their future. Their best chance was 2018/19 before egghead was cooked, and they still had Kelly playing for them. They could have and should have set themselves up with those picks. But no, chased the vainglory and ****ed themselves up the ass.

In any case I think we are more like the Baby Bombers 1993. They still had a lot of experience in the team even though everyone remembers youngsters like Turd and Wangannen.

 

[Sir_Loin]

The right thing to do is be very careful at trade time when we can trade out some players with premiership medals to their name. Yes, to the #triggered mob, that could even mean trading George to Carlton.

Clubs that have been shit for ages are always looking to add a *former premiership player to their list because if you get the right one, it actually helps to bring in a guy who knows what it takes.

The tricky bit is trading out the right players, because Essendon traded the wrong ones after 2000 and it ripped the soul out of the club.

I don't condone the Geelong strategy (especially after the Kelly trade) because that sold out their future. Their best chance was 2018/19 before egghead was cooked, and they still had Kelly playing for them. They could have and should have set themselves up with those picks. But no, chased the vainglory and ducked themselves up the ass.

In any case I think we are more like the Baby Bombers 1993. They still had a lot of experience in the team even though everyone remembers youngsters like Turd and Wangannen.

I agree with most of this except the Geelong strategy with Kelly. The cats won that trade hands down.

How good is Kelly going at west coast? They’re not a threat and won’t be for some time

 

[RJK Tiger]

I don’t know that we will be able to finish bottom few any time soon…. Our 23-30yo core group is just too strong, and there are very promising signs from the likes of Gibcus, Dow, Ralphsmith and MRJ.

Here is the core of our team from 2023-2026, so it’s taking out anyone who is 30+ right now:

B: Baker. Gibcus. Mansell
HB. Vlastuin. Balta. Rioli
C. Graham. Prestia. Ralphsmith
HF. Bolton. Lynch. Clarke
F. MRJ. Ryan. Cumberland.
R. Nankervis Short. Dow
I/C: Soldo. McIntosh. Broad . Stack

There are obviously a few unknowns here, but to me it doesn’t look like a bottom-4 team… which may cause an issue with our ‘refresh’ … who knows ?


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If you took out Cotchin, Lambert, Jack, Edwards, Dusty & possibly Prestia - this team would plummet down the standings. We would have lost to the Pies & Hawks & i think sides like Port, Gold Coast, possibly GWS & ADL would equally be around us. The drop down to10th to 14th could be percentage or a draw etc. We could fall quickly without those mentioned players as they are our core purpose. They are 2 teams that have less talented rosters, but currently better chemistry, energy levels etc.

The Hawks & the Pies are currently playing with the thing we require the most - purpose of hope. Our biggest problem atm is we feel like a team trying to stop the bottom deck from getting flooded on a boat that has a lot of history & cherished. We are trying to save and grasp a fairytale finish - but the reality is the ship is sunk.

The biggest issue i see moving forward is the teams inability to find a new identity to play with a exciting purpose, or hope. Instead of trying to write new history, feels like we are more focused on saving the previous. You rarely get to choose how your own story ends & i think this club needs to take charge of its own narrative again

 

[tigs2010]

I don’t know that we will be able to finish bottom few any time soon…. Our 23-30yo core group is just too strong, and there are very promising signs from the likes of Gibcus, Dow, Ralphsmith and MRJ.

Here is the core of our team from 2023-2026, so it’s taking out anyone who is 30+ right now:

B: Baker. Gibcus. Mansell
HB. Vlastuin. Balta. Rioli
C. Graham. Prestia. Ralphsmith
HF. Bolton. Lynch. Clarke
F. MRJ. Ryan. Cumberland.
R. Nankervis Short. Dow
I/C: Soldo. McIntosh. Broad . Stack

There are obviously a few unknowns here, but to me it doesn’t look like a bottom-4 team… which may cause an issue with our ‘refresh’ … who knows ?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Doesn't look too bad but Lynch is probably one of the older ones there. As soon as he goes/form drops that forward line is pretty dire.

 

[Mr Magic]

We need a new look.

Not saying JR needs to retire and is out, I am just saying, like a Townsend scenario we need a refresh and a few new players like Gibcus to change our approach.

I think we need a better bottom six to win in 2023 and possibly a slightly different way, or a few different ways including the old ways to mix it up

 

[tigs2010]

I agree with most of this except the Geelong strategy with Kelly. The cats won that trade hands down.

How good is Kelly going at west coast? They’re not a threat and won’t be for some time

I think tigerdan meant they then traded all those picks away rather than regenerating with them. They slaughtered WC with that deal and then gave it all away for Cameron.

I guess it comes down to does Cameron win them a premiership.

 

[Mr Magic]

I think tigerdan meant they then traded all those picks away rather than regenerating with them. They slaughtered WC with that deal and then gave it all away for Cameron.

I guess it comes down to does Cameron win them a premiership.

West Coast lost the plot and then Geelong lost the plot. Cameron has been good for Geelong, clearly, but I can't see them doing anymore than continue reaching before they fall

If I wanted two guys from other teams right at the moment it would be Jeffries from GC and Frederick from Freo. The game is moving again, we have enough talent if we can add to it though

We must have youth though and the energy they bring. It is critical

 

[Dr Tigris]

Kinda wondering why we still don't have Stengle, his output seems to be more productive than George at present.

Why did 2 clubs let him go knowing his talent?

Only after he had the realisation he had to seriously work did it work at his 3rd club. Talent good, head all wrong. Like most kids until they grow up a bit.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Another pin headed conclusion , failing to W a flag is the product of many factors. Star players failing to replicate HA form when it counts and that includes the coach , my comment still stands they’re a contender

I guess if you do not want to debate the factor they have won nothing then its a pointless argument. To me, if they have won nothing then the end result is failure. Being a contender is a faaarr faarr lower bar to set as a standard. Being a top 4 teams is far easier than building flags or multiple flags. Its my opinion that Geelong have failed to make that step due to a lack of developing their own elite talent that has spent their entire career on the list etc.

When you free agent in Danger or Cameron, you are only getting them for half the journey. If you want to win flags, then you need to build it with elite pieces that have lived and breathed your club for their entire career.

 

[Vlastuin Space]

You're conveniently ignoring that our best players in our premiership core were attained from 2006-2010 being Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Rance, Edwards, etc and without those bottom finishes we have none of those players and without them there is absolutely ZERO chance we win any premierships. You need a few top 3 to top 10 draft picks to contend at a minimum. This whole we built our list with compromised drafts needs to stop when you look at where we finished and the link to them being our best players.

To be fair, Jack was pick 13, Rance 18 and Edwards was 26. Cotchin and Martin were obviously very high and are the cream, but it does show that your team's stars or even future stars (Bolton 29, Balta 25) can be plucked from a bit later on.

 

[Tortured Tiger]

I guess if you do not want to debate the factor they have won nothing then its a pointless argument. To me, if they have won nothing then the end result is failure. Being a contender is a faaarr faarr lower bar to set as a standard. Being a top 4 teams is far easier than building flags or multiple flags. Its my opinion that Geelong have failed to make that step due to a lack of developing their own elite talent that has spent their entire career on the list etc.

When you free agent in Danger or Cameron, you are only getting them for half the journey. If you want to win flags, then you need to build it with elite pieces that have lived and breathed your club for their entire career.

Geelong has one advantage that rarely gets mentioned but I am sure it is a factor and that is the cheaper cost of living down there. I have no doubt players have accepted less to play at Geelong for this reason and that makes a big difference when balancing a list.

 

[Bojangles17]

I guess if you do not want to debate the factor they have won nothing then its a pointless argument. To me, if they have won nothing then the end result is failure. Being a contender is a faaarr faarr lower bar to set as a standard. Being a top 4 teams is far easier than building flags or multiple flags. Its my opinion that Geelong have failed to make that step due to a lack of developing their own elite talent that has spent their entire career on the list etc.

When you free agent in Danger or Cameron, you are only getting them for half the journey. If you want to win flags, then you need to build it with elite pieces that have lived and breathed your club for their entire career.

Clearly then , You obviously think all that’s needed are high end pics if coaching mastery and key players standing up in finals ,,,,explain why gws and gc haven’t delivered a flag , they have more top 10 pics than anyone , cmon fill us in , and no bs about losing players either coz they still have at least 3-4 top 10 pics which is what someone pointed too as some magic mushy ingredient

 

[Bojangles17]

Geelong has one advantage that rarely gets mentioned but I am sure it is a factor and that is the cheaper cost of living down there. I have no doubt players have accepted less to play at Geelong for this reason and that makes a big difference when balancing a list.

Nah don’t think that’s relevant , Moreso their HOME ground advantage , they rarely lose their which sets a fair base to make finals ea year

 

[Muddiemoose]

Nah don’t think that’s relevant , Moreso their HOME ground advantage , they rarely lose their which sets a fair base to make finals ea year

Home ground helps, but it not the be all and end all
They were a basket case for a long time before they turned the corner in 2007 and they played on the same ground before that

 

[_RT_]

You're conveniently ignoring that our best players in our premiership core were attained from 2006-2010 being Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Rance, Edwards, etc and without those bottom finishes we have none of those players and without them there is absolutely ZERO chance we win any premierships. You need a few top 3 to top 10 draft picks to contend at a minimum. This whole we built our list with compromised drafts needs to stop when you look at where we finished and the link to them being our best players.

Didn't ignore any of them, my point was that just because you get access to top end talent it doesn't guarantee you rebound from the bottom to premiership contender. Both Richmond and Melbourne were bottom 2 in 2009, Richmond didn't win a flag for another 8 years and Melbourne 12 years. So the belief that all we need to do is drop down the ladder finish in the bottom couple and then make another run at a flag is false narrative. Yes you need top end talent, but you also need a solid supporting cast, which is what we built in the years after we had access to that top end talent.

 

[Bojangles17]

Home ground helps, but it not the be all and end all
They were a basket case for a long time before they turned the corner in 2007 and they played on the same ground before that

I rate their recruiting over the journey , nailed their first pic ea year , had a fair amount of luck with father sons , basically r1 qty for nix . The value of 3 x r1 for Cameron remains to be seen , personally I would have walked from that deal and i reckon GWS were total pricks but that’s another story