List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 7

[Lore]

Hello Tiger fans!

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Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

tugga you may like to sticky or merge this post, move it to the start of the thread (so the sticky post doesn't rotate if a post is deleted before it), or copy it to your draft thread.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Primarily we need a better coaching setup. The games changed but we didn’t.

There is no way a midfield with Dusty, who’s still playing well, Taranto, Hopper, Bolton and Prestia should be so ineffective.

What we ask of our midfielders and small forwards is out dated hasn’t worked since the stand rule came in.

We need to prioritise hitouts and numbers at the contest. Winning the ball first and rather than hoping to win it back and then rebound.


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[Chunky09]

I'm confused.

Why would we be interested in a stopgap 26 year old like Jade Gresham now that we have conceded we're out of the window? Especially a player that, according to Champion Data after round 13, was statistically the least effective player in the entire league.

I've read about 100 posts over the last few weeks about the apparent error in trading for Jacob Hopper as a 25 year old in 2022. And that was when we WERE still a finalist, and should've been a semi-finalist but for some sketchy ARC intervention. I've disagreed with these posts on the whole, because at that time he appeared to be exactly the sort of player we needed to go the next step again in 2023. Injuries and lack of desire across the playing list meant that wasn't to be, as it turned out.

So what way are we going here folks? Are we bringing in mediocre mid-age players just to stay competitive, like we did back in the Frawley days of Hudson, Sziller, King, James, Hilton etc without really being a serious challenger? Or are we heading towards rebuilding our list from the best available 18 year olds?

And yes, I know, we have no 1st rounder this year. But if we top up on 26+ year-olds, knowing what we know now about the state of our list, are we not then jeopardising our chances of getting access to the best youngsters in 2025-26?

This guys gets it.
I don’t disagree Gresham is an upgrade on graham but why tf would be interested in him?
We have glaring issues in key forward, and mids that have leg speed and good foot skills, he’s quickish but skills are poor and he doesn’t fill a need we don’t have players waiting to fill already.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

I wouldn’t have Prestia in our best 22, if this season is anything to go by, the game has started to go past him


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[Chunky09]

******* oath. Silvagni is a competitor at least. Massive upgrade on Miller.

Yeah but he’s also an unlikeable knob jockey that belongs at carlstench

 

[tiger_tough]

Yeah but he’s also an unlikeable knob jockey that belongs at carlstench

So was caddy

 

[Muddiemoose]

Caddy was a mile ahead of Silvagni in terms of credentials

The comparison was only in terms of having that pest/inforcer personality who enjoy getting under the skin of the opponents… and are pretty good at it

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Picking up players like Gresham and Silvagni will only achieve one thing, increase our tpp.

Maybe if we were in the window you’d consider it, they could potentially give us an edge over similar opposition.
But where we are at , save cap the space for genuine list needs and invest in the draft.

Last thing we need is to be paying overs to get B-C graders to move clubs and clog our list.

 

[tora tora tora]

Picking up players like Gresham and Silvagni will only achieve one thing, increase our tpp.

Maybe if we were in the window you’d consider it, they could potentially give us an edge over similar opposition.
But where we are at , save cap the space for genuine list needs and invest in the draft.

Last thing we need is to be paying overs to get B-C graders to move clubs and clog our list.

Silvagni type is a need. Gresham ain 't. Our KPFs are not quite right. Ryan played good footy and should've played this week. , Bauer OK but 3rd tall type. inexperienced. Bauer & Cumbo might be a good combo

Miller a KPB, Gibcus. Bradkte?? Soldo & Nank crap up fwd.

Whoever we bring in would be 4 years you'd think.

Lynch and Gibcus/Ryan for a year? Bring in a A grader end of 24?


I'd prefer Riccardi but not sure if he would move.

 

[TheOptimum18]

There is no way a midfield with Dusty, who’s still playing well, Taranto, Hopper, Bolton and Prestia should be so ineffective.

I'm gonna say it.

Part of the reason is our rucks. Our current midfield setup allows us to be an effective centre bounce team, but the way Nank plays as a ruck limits the potential of our midfield.

 

[Tigerbob]

I'm gonna say it.

Part of the reason is our rucks. Our current midfield setup allows us to be an effective centre bounce team, but the way Nank plays as a ruck limits the potential of our midfield.

Exactly. Nank is expendable. And has currency to get us improvement.

 

[tiger_tough]

Primarily we need a better coaching setup. The games changed but we didn’t.

There is no way a midfield with Dusty, who’s still playing well, Taranto, Hopper, Bolton and Prestia should be so ineffective.

What we ask of our midfielders and small forwards is out dated hasn’t worked since the stand rule came in.

We need to prioritise hitouts and numbers at the contest. Winning the ball first and rather than hoping to win it back and then rebound.


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This. Hitouts are over rated though.

I'm gonna say it.

Part of the reason is our rucks. Our current midfield setup allows us to be an effective centre bounce team, but the way Nank plays as a ruck limits the potential of our midfield.

Nah. Explain why hawks are the 3rd best centre clearance team then? Or why blues and port are 2 of the best stoppage teams? All you need is a ruckman that competes, we have that. Our midfield setup and strategy has been crap for years.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Silvagni type is a need. Gresham ain 't. Our KPFs are not quite right. Ryan played good footy and should've played this week. , Bauer OK but 3rd tall type. inexperienced. Bauer & Cumbo might be a good combo

Miller a KPB, Gibcus. Bradkte?? Soldo & Nank crap up fwd.

Whoever we bring in would be 4 years you'd think.

Lynch and Gibcus/Ryan for a year? Bring in a A grader end of 24?


I'd prefer Riccardi but not sure if he would move.

Just think a genuine kpf is far greater priority.
Silvagni is no hack but you’re likely playing above market value to get him to swap clubs and doing a trade, the price is just too high.
I’d prefer to continue playing Bauer in that 3rd tall role and looking at trading into the draft to nab Nate Caddy . Caddy and Bauer playing the same role Silvagni would be and we are building a forward line that’ll be primed for the next premiership assault.

 

[TheOptimum18]

Nah. Explain why hawks are the 3rd best centre clearance team then? Or why blues and port are 2 of the best stoppage teams? All you need is a ruckman that competes, we have that. Our midfield setup and strategy has been crap for years.

We have a ruckman that competes at ground level, not a ruckman that competes in a genuine ruck contest.

Pittonet, Reeves and nearly all of Port's ruckman aren't considered small for a ruck, so can easily halve contests in a genuine ruck contest. Finlayson, the other Port ruck, either doesn't ruck at all even in a ruck contest, or rucks in a manner in which he knows he won't get the tap, but will beat the opposite ruck with athleticism.

Nank rucks as you expect a ruck would normally do, not do a Finlayson-style of giving up the tap or attempting to beat the opposing ruck after the ruck contest.

Haven't you noticed that Nank only does one of two things in a centre bounce situation? He either jumps into his ruck opponent, which grounds the opposing ruck and limits the height advantage most rucks have on Nank, or he sets up on the sides of the circle, and immeditely engages the opposing ruck once the ball is bounced to stop the opposing ruck from jumping.

Nank's best quality as a ruckman is his ability to slog through games, creating contest after contest. That was apparent when we played Fremantle this year, and it started pouring with rain.

Is it a surprise that some of our best midfield work has been with Ryan as our centre bounce ruck (thinking back to the Dogs game at the 'G)? Also, didn't we look threatening from centre bounce vs Melbourne a couple weeks ago with Soldo as the ruck?

 

[domin8]

Exactly. Nank is expendable. And has currency to get us improvement.

He’s the club captain!!
How the **** do you think that looks both internally and externally in a culture sense. Back to the 80s for the Tiges.
Talk about throwing the baby out

 

[Tigerbob]

Nank is only gonna get worse as the he gets on too. His weaknesses will be exposed more and more.

Which if anyone takes the blinkers off, we are starting to see now.

A team who think they are a ruckman away from finals or a flag would pay overs for a Premiership ruck.

 

[Tigerbob]

He’s the club captain!!
How the * do you think that looks both internally and externally in a culture sense. Back to the 80s for the Tiges.
Talk about throwing the baby out

Theres way to sell it.

Great club allows veteran leave to chase a flag.

He shouldn’t be captain regardless. One of the dumbest decisions made recently.

 

[domin8]

Theres way to sell it.

Great club allows veteran leave to chase a flag.

He shouldn’t be captain regardless. One of the dumbest decisions made recently.

You don’t trade your captain no matter how you sell it. Whether you like it or not the players voted. It’s the type of thing that would tear the club apart internally.
Hideous decision

 

[juss]

I think many posters forget how quickly things can turn around.

Our core best 22 is very good and yes we need to upgrade our bottom 6.

Brown could explode next year, the signs to him being 22 look good
Gibcus a new top 10 recruit
MJ could come back a mid/fwd and best 22
Trezise could be best 22 and a real weapon
Bauer could take the bext step

Add in a trade or 2 and FA????

Not to mention new coach and game plan.

I am not saying they will, but its possible and suddenly with a fit Lynch and a little luck, we are right back into the thick of things.
We are too smartly run nowadays with too strong of a core list to bottom out and be run into the ground.

This isnt early 2000's and we didn't give away heaps of picks for duds FFS. The carry on that the Hopper trade has cost us our future is so ******* dumb. Its one Pick FFS. ONE ! Now consider the ******* gun in Taranto that we got cheap, the 2 trades are somewhat leveled out.

Our best 22 is not "very good", you're looking at the names on paper and not the actual way they play. If they were very good, we wouldn't be 13th. A lot of them were great, but by and large a lot of them are all older, slower and not as good as they were.

If it all hinges on one player in Lynch, then the list management is terrible.

We are a middle road - bottom side, not as bad as the worst few, but we aren't close to the top few either.

Hence there's a fair bit of work required.

 

[TheOptimum18]

If we get to a point where umps don't bounce the ball for centre bounces, Nank is fine as our ruck.

Nank doesn't struggle when he can grapple with the opposing ruck, thereby limiting the opposition ruck's ability to jump or fully extend their arms.

 

[Tigerbob]

You don’t trade your captain no matter how you sell it. Whether you like it or not the players voted. It’s the type of thing that would tear the club apart internally.
Hideous decision

Bulldogs never recovered from Ryan Griffen being traded to GWS.

 

[domin8]

Our best 22 is not "very good", you're looking at the names on paper and not the actual way they play. If they were very good, we wouldn't be 13th. A lot of them were great, but by and large a lot of them are all older, slower and not as good as they were.

If it all hinges on one player in Lynch, then the list management is terrible.

We are a middle road - bottom side, not as bad as the worst few, but we aren't close to the top few either.

Hence there's a fair bit of work required.

A lot rides on Lynch. He plays most the year we win probably 3-4 of those early games. Bulldogs dees bombers pies swans suns. All of a sudden the confidence in the club shifts. His loss to us early in the year was significant. It changes so much if he plays. Look at it now you think no difference. But take into account the flow on affect it’s huge

 

[domin8]

Bulldogs never recovered from Ryan Griffen being traded to GWS.

Yeah they’ve been brilliant. Culture issues everywhere

 

[juss]

A lot rides on Lynch. He plays most the year we win probably 3-4 of those early games. Bulldogs dees bombers pies swans suns. All of a sudden the confidence in the club shifts. His loss to us early in the year was significant. It changes so much if he plays. Look at it now you think no difference. But take into account the flow on affect it’s huge

I agree he makes a huge difference, but my critique is if we've set up our list that way where everything hinges on a 30+ year old KPF with injury history, then we've got some big issues.

 

[tiger_tough]

We have a ruckman that competes at ground level, not a ruckman that competes in a genuine ruck contest.

Pittonet, Reeves and nearly all of Port's ruckman aren't considered small for a ruck, so can easily halve contests in a genuine ruck contest. Finlayson, the other Port ruck, either doesn't ruck at all even in a ruck contest, or rucks in a manner in which he knows he won't get the tap, but will beat the opposite ruck with athleticism.

Nank rucks as you expect a ruck would normally do, not do a Finlayson-style of giving up the tap or attempting to beat the opposing ruck after the ruck contest.

Haven't you noticed that Nank only does one of two things in a centre bounce situation? He either jumps into his ruck opponent, which grounds the opposing ruck and limits the height advantage most rucks have on Nank, or he sets up on the sides of the circle, and immeditely engages the opposing ruck once the ball is bounced to stop the opposing ruck from jumping.

Nank's best quality as a ruckman is his ability to slog through games, creating contest after contest. That was apparent when we played Fremantle this year, and it started pouring with rain.

Is it a surprise that some of our best midfield work has been with Ryan as our centre bounce ruck (thinking back to the Dogs game at the 'G)? Also, didn't we look threatening from centre bounce vs Melbourne a couple weeks ago with Soldo as the ruck?

Nah. We've just never prioritised winning the ball at the source ahead of trying to win it back. I said at the time when we finally got a couple of clearance players in that we needed a new midfield coach too but we stuck with Dimma mkII as the midfield coach and nothing changed.

 

[Groupie_]

silvagni LMAO