Trade Hypotheticals *MERGED THREADS*

[Dramoth]

Re: Staker for Bower?

Why is this thread bringing so many idiots in here?

Coz the weagles supporters have been hanging out with some of the 'higher' demographic and think that they are better than they really are.

Classic

 

[Sin City]

Re: Staker for Bower?

*cough*username*cough*

Yeah he's not joking is he. Bet he didn't even have to think to choose that one, just went with his nickname

 

[LemmingMaster]

Re: Staker for Bower?

Can't you guys go one season without recruiting a crab ruckman.

Maybe we should learn from the Dockers on the way to trade your way to success?

 

[Malifice]

Re: Staker for Bower?

Hes not a ruckman?

Sssh...

You'll ruin the surprise.

 

[Sin City]

Re: Staker for Bower?

[/b]
i've changed my mind. can i stay for a while?

 

[wintz73]

Re: Staker for Bower?

What part of my discussion was unreasonable?

I praised Mackenzie and Glass, said I thought Schofield might have the goods, and put a question mark on Brown's scope for improvement. I haven't taken any pot shots at your players.

You, on the other hand, have failed to provide any comments as to why Jamison shouldn't be considered a top-line prospect, and have refused to acknowledge Thornton, Joseph, Armfield and Austin.

If I was to draw a conclusion on this, it is that your silence seems to indicate that you have barely seen these blokes play. As such, I don't think you should be commenting on our defence as a whole.

You have also failed to acknowledge any of Bower's brilliant games this year, and the fact that he was injured for half of the season.

What is unreasonable about that?

lets be fair here. you make it sound like its all one way traffic. i've acknowledged that you guys have a pretty good outfit (better than us right now) but I have serious concerns about your defence. I think it will be ok I just don't see it ever being a strength of yours - perhaps this is an unfair reference when you guys have a midfield like you do. i will admit that perhaps i haven't seen the best of bower. i don't see every carlton game so i will reserve judgement. i also wasn't aware of the injury he was carrying so lets wait and see. i hope the bloke makes it. again, I haven't seen every game Jamison, joseph, armfield etc have played so perhaps the same applies. i don't know the ins and outs of every player on your list. all i can say is that having watched the carlton games I have seen this year and by going on what I have heard in the media it would appear to me that carltons defence has some way to go (accepting that it is still a young unit). will happily come back to this in a year or two to see if I was on the right track. if not, i'll wear it.

my other point was that bower would not get a game at the eagles and I stand by that. this clearly ruffled feathers on your board. its clear you know something about our list so I'm interested who you think Bower would replace assuming we have a full list at our disposal? if you can convince me I will happily concede.

also, to those that keep referring to staker being worse than bower, i have never made a case for staker...he is a serious liability on our list and I would take bower any day of the week but that aint the argument here.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Staker for Bower?

i will admit that perhaps i haven't seen the best of bower. i don't see every carlton game so i will reserve judgement.

How about you tell us which Carlton games you have seen?

 

[wintz73]

Re: Staker for Bower?

How about you tell us which Carlton games you have seen?

no chance I'm afraid. have seen a couple of friday night games featuring carlton but thats about as good as i get.

 

[Sin City]

Re: Staker for Bower?

no chance I'm afraid. have seen a couple of friday night games featuring carlton but thats about as good as i get.

Yet you seem to think you remembered so much about Bower from these games.

Your argument was pretty shaky from the start, now it has no credibility at all.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Staker for Bower?

no chance I'm afraid. have seen a couple of friday night games featuring carlton but thats about as good as i get.

We had an appalling Friday night record up until the Geelong game. No wonder you have formed a bad opinion based on that.

 

[Blueboys7]

Re: Staker for Bower?

no chance I'm afraid. have seen a couple of friday night games featuring carlton but thats about as good as i get.

I didn't think your credibility could get any worse, but you definately showed us.....

 

[wintz73]

Re: Staker for Bower?

Yet you seem to think you remembered so much about Bower from these games.

Your argument was pretty shaky from the start, now it has no credibility at all.

you are joking aren't you?

its a little like asking what rides you liked at Disneyland and then asking what day you were there.

if you are going to comment, perhaps a little common sense should be applied.

 

[Sin City]

Re: Staker for Bower?

if you are going to comment, perhaps a little common sense should be applied.

Perhaps you could apply this to your stupid argument.

Perhaps even, and I know this one will stretch you, but provide a few examples if you are going to knock a player.

Otherwise your argument lacks credibility and you end up looking like a fool.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Staker for Bower?

Friday night games

Round 10 - def Eagles by 41
Bower had 27 possessions, 10 marks, 11 1%ers (has the most 1%ers in our team for the year by a long way), 7 rebound 50s, 78% efficiency.

He might have been noticed that night.

Round 12 - lost to St Kilda by 9

26 possessions, 6 contested, 7 marks, 5 rebound 50s, 13 1%ers, 88% efficiency.

Round 13 - lost to Essendon by 69

14 possessions, 8 1%ers, nothing to write home about for the whole team that night. Maybe you saw this game?

Round 17 - lost to Collingwood by 54

24 possessions, 9 contested, 8 marks, 8 1%%ers, 75% efficiency

Round 18 - def North by 10

18 possessions, 7 marks, 83% efficiency, again not so great

Round 19 - def Geelong by 35

17 possessions, 7 marks, 7 1%ers, 94% efficiency.

Even these Friday games where we were wildly inconsistent, Bower showed a bit in most. I'd say his input was largely down like most of the team however.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Staker for Bower?

you are joking aren't you?

its a little like asking what rides you liked at Disneyland and then asking what day you were there.

if you are going to comment, perhaps a little common sense should be applied.

No, that doesn't wash. Nobody is asking the date of the games you watched. Just the opponents will suffice.

 

[Sin City]

Re: Staker for Bower?

This is how you provide an example. Despite having to play out of his natural position on guys like Franklin and Riewoldt, and carrying a knee injury for the 2nd half of the season, Bower still managed to average 19.4 disposals.

Compare this to the West Coast KPD's, who were getting it bombed into their defence a lot more than our guys.
Brown: 14.7
Glass: 12.1
Wilkes: 14.0
Spangher: 13.9

The great Brent Staker averaged 11.2

 

[wintz73]

Re: Staker for Bower?

This is how you provide an example. Despite having to play out of his natural position on guys like Franklin and Riewoldt, and carrying a knee injury for the 2nd half of the season, Bower still managed to average 19.4 disposals.

Compare this to the West Coast KPD's, who were getting it bombed into their defence a lot more than our guys.
Brown: 14.7
Glass: 12.1
Wilkes: 14.0
Spangher: 13.9

The great Brett Staker averaged 11.2

are you suggesting that bower is better than glass based on these averages? i seriously hope not. i didn't see Bower's name nominated for AA this year. its brent staker by the way not brett. there is a reason why people don't look at numbers to determine a players true worth. i think you (and the previous poster) have just demonstrated why. there are many factors that can influence disposal count - game time, injuries, gameplan etc etc etc

 

[wintz73]

Re: Staker for Bower?

No, that doesn't wash. Nobody is asking the date of the games you watched. Just the opponents will suffice.

if i knew the bloody opponents i would go and look up what actually happened in those games. i watched 8 or 9 carlton games this year and i know a couple were friday night games. my general impression from what i saw in these games (and what i have heard from commentators throughout the year) is that the carlton defence has some question marks. not sure how many more times i can make this point...

you don't need to be einstein or do hours of research to come to this conclusion. most people in the league - outside of carlton supporters obviously - would hold the same view i suspect. why don't you test this theory? you might be surprised.

 

[Blue Dawn]

Re: Shane Tuck

.......but we all knew Farren Ray deep down was really good at winning the contested ball......a good overhead mark......and a goal kicker?

I think we should judge each case on its merits, and I wouldn't put a line through CJ yet either. Time may well prove us right.

Not sure why Tuck was on the outer with the Tiges, and I'm sure he will figure in Harwicks plans.......interesting range of responses here though.

I wouldn't be sure about that either BB. I hear from a source inside the Richmond playing group that Tuck's been told he'll likely be playing elsewhere next year if an appropriate deal can be done.

Would seriously consider him as a ready made 'inside' mid (with a better work ethic than Grigg in present form) is exactly what our midfield structure needs to support Judd.

 

[Ytoojae]

Re: Fish bait

Good idea, Topblue, I think you're really onto something. I don't know what the Saints' draft plan is, but that would probably be something that they wouldn't be too adverse to doing. It wouldn't hurt them and it would help us quite a bit. For them it would be worth the salary we're paying them if they're of the opinion that the draft is shallow and there isn't too much that would be helping them OR that the talent depth between the picks is pretty even.

What I meant when I said that if anyone thinks a Fisher for player swap was possible could happen is really kidding themselves. That usually doesn't happen when a team is paying part of the contract. What is very possible is a pick + Fisher for a slightly higher pick.

I like it

 

[Dramoth]

Re: Fish bait

I too would like to comment Fish on his 7 seasons at the club, and to express my regret that a player that was actually of a ray of sunshine during our darkest days, never got to play finals football and participate in the happier times at the club. He deserved better but the timing and the need to incrementally improve our team have counted against him.

I will wish him well at his new club.

+1

Exciting player to watch and true blue... pity he has to go but...

 

[Dramoth]

Re: Staker for Bower?

if i knew the bloody opponents i would go and look up what actually happened in those games. i watched 8 or 9 carlton games this year and i know a couple were friday night games. my general impression from what i saw in these games (and what i have heard from commentators throughout the year) is that the carlton defence has some question marks. not sure how many more times i can make this point...

you don't need to be einstein or do hours of research to come to this conclusion. most people in the league - outside of carlton supporters obviously - would hold the same view i suspect. why don't you test this theory? you might be surprised.

Geez... you seriously are thick...

We have been missing a number of key defenders for a good chunk of the year and we all admit that our defence has been shaky. We dont need a west coke e-girls supporter telling us something that we already know and have acknowledged.

It is also acknowledged amongst the blues faithful that Bower has generally had a stellar year despite playing out of position against guys much bigger than him because of the afore mentioned missing key defenders who would have taken those guys.

AND... incase you have missed it... he has been playing on 1 leg for most of the season after injuring it in a collision with Thornton.

To average 19+ disposals while playing injured is a lot better than the defenders from your basket case of a club.

Seriously mate... you have your head up your ass so far you are looking at the words coming out of your mouth but you can understand a single thing that you are saying.

How about you just take your bat and ball and **** off back to the west coke e-girls board and whinge to your mates of a similar intellect that the Carlton fans wouldnt convert to your way of thinking and start following your opinions... I bet you will get a lot more sympathy over there coz to be perfectly honest, we dont really give a flying **** what you think.

 

[carltonfc12!]

Re: Fish bait

1st round pick + fisher for travis boak??

 

[wintz73]

Re: Staker for Bower?

Geez... you seriously are thick...

We have been missing a number of key defenders for a good chunk of the year and we all admit that our defence has been shaky. We dont need a west coke e-girls supporter telling us something that we already know and have acknowledged.

It is also acknowledged amongst the blues faithful that Bower has generally had a stellar year despite playing out of position against guys much bigger than him because of the afore mentioned missing key defenders who would have taken those guys.

AND... incase you have missed it... he has been playing on 1 leg for most of the season after injuring it in a collision with Thornton.

To average 19+ disposals while playing injured is a lot better than the defenders from your basket case of a club.

Seriously mate... you have your head up your ass so far you are looking at the words coming out of your mouth but you can understand a single thing that you are saying.

How about you just take your bat and ball and **** off back to the west coke e-girls board and whinge to your mates of a similar intellect that the Carlton fans wouldnt convert to your way of thinking and start following your opinions... I bet you will get a lot more sympathy over there coz to be perfectly honest, we dont really give a flying **** what you think.

i keep hearing you blokes talking about injuries this year suggesting that perhaps with your best defence out there you would have gone further this year. the truth is, your best defenders aren't that good and that was the point the commentators (and fellow carlton supporters I know) were referring to. wake up sport...

 

[Sin City]

Re: Staker for Bower?

I've finally cracked, all i can do is laugh. You just don't get it do you you half wit.

No matter how many facts and examples you are shown you are too stupid to understand them. Our defenders are very good when we have them all on the park.

There is a place for **** wits like you, it's called the West Coast board. Now **** off back there.

9 pages on this crap, now I've seen it all.