Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[barreness]

A certain poster is not going to like this. Happy days

Putin is leading Russia into a demographic catastrophe

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. If anyone knows how to falsify figures to bolster weak causes, it is the Kremlin.

uk.yahoo.com

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

 

[Zidane98]

Of course this is merely a blip for Russia. No issue at all according to the tankies.

 

[Nothing]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

Yes. Once again Putin is merely doing what's best.

You know what's better for depopulation than killing?
Education. Perhaps Putin could have put the trillions he's spent into education for a better outcome.

 

[Zidane98]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

Ok comrade. How do you feel the Ukraine war is affecting society in Russia? Do you believe Putin invading Ukraine brings any benefits to the demographics of Russia in any way? How is Putin's invasion affecting yourself in day to day life?

 

[Zidane98]

Black Sea fleet security going just great. Definitely better than before Putin invaded Ukraine with Russia having a lease on Sevastopol naval base until 2042.

 

[Mofra]

Of course this is merely a blip for Russia. No issue at all according to the tankies.

It's actually massive news.

Russia’s vast stocks of Soviet-era weaponry are running out

It may have to scale back its offensive in Ukraine

www.economist.com

 

[Zidane98]

Open season on Crimea now with the Black Sea fleet retreating, ATACMS, Storm Shadow and soon to come F16s. Russia can never achieve operational military security of occupied Crimea for the forseeable future.

With US military aid and much of Europe supporting Ukraine all Putin can do now is hold off the inevitable or come to the negotiating table.

 

[Seeds]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

How is depopulation the best thing for the species? By what logic?

 

[Chadwiko]

Will wait to see more information/reports on this... but if accurate this is hugely important for Ukraine and incredibly embarrassing for Russia;

 

[leon123]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

what?

demographics is real.... if you are over-represented in old people, which are less capable/productive than young, you dont think thats a problem? Irrelevant what economic-political ideology one may follow. Russia already had a demographic 'storm' approaching, rapidly increasing their old/drunk cohort as a proportion of total pop'n

 

[Andre]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

Sure, if Putin's aim was to save the Russian (and world) environment, by bringing down the Russian population, then he's doing a Stirling job. If his goal is to maximise the number of future recruits to expand the Russian Empire, not so much.

The demographic cliff, Russia is intent on throwing itself over, only makes sticking with Ukraine now more important. If Russia is kept from expanding now, it won't have enough of fighting age (or the economy due to the skewed population setup) to do it down the track. Putin wants to be the Soviet Union, rolling towards Berlin, ignoring the Soviet Union included Ukraine and other countries now opposing them. Along with Russia's own shrinking population, ensures that can't be done anymore.

There's good reason people say Demographics is Destiny. Putin does understand this to a degree, having failed to increase Russia's birth rate, he's left with turning conquered people into Russians to halt the already large gap between Russia's population (and linked economic and military strength) vs. Europe and the US. Europe and the US have low birth rates as well, but are still growing due to immigration.

Demographics IS destiny. The Ukraine war is horrific, but a silver lining amongst the horrors of it, is those demographics means if Russia is stopped now (as in fully pushed out of Ukraine) and contained for 10-20, whilst their population (, economy and military) shrinks, then for the first time in centuries no European country will need to fear Russia invading them again.

 

[Chief]

This should help the numbers even more. Russia bringing out the heavy equipment…

I just don't know why anyone was pumping up Russia's prospects in a competition to out-produce half the planet.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

You Russian aplogists do struggle with the truth

 

[Smeg Head]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

Depopulation you say? Your mates in the most heavily populated part of the world might not be too thrilled.

 

[Mobbs]

Is this about running the population numbers against Russia to see if they literally have the people power to achieve their aims? All a bit over my head but Russia has definitely been extremely keen on getting the population numbers up, with various approaches to increase birth rates - pleading for larger families, crackdown on abortion options, even a very robust version of our baby bonus 15 or so years ago too.

Putin is once again telling Russians to have more babies, and this time he's saying ethnic survival is at stake

Some 150,000 to 190,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded in the war against Ukraine. Another million Russians have fled their homeland.

www.businessinsider.com

Putin is urging women to have as many as 8 children after so many Russians died in his war with Ukraine

Russia's birth rates have been falling for decades, and the war in Ukraine has made it worse.

www.businessinsider.com

Russian authorities crack down on abortion access amid demographic crisis

Authorities in Russia are aiming to limit abortion access in an effort to boost population growth.

www.bbc.com

 

[Chief]

Slurp up the propaganda like a good boy

Demographics is an overrated metric used by capitalists because their profits are in danger, depopulation is the best thing for the species and every other living thing

Putin's doing his best to thin the herd in Russia.

 

[jatz14]

So shot for trying to cross the border to escape conscription?

Being armed just shows they were quite committed, they are facing barbed wire and well armed border crossings

WTF?

How do you not get this?

If I jaywalk, and then shoot at police who go to stop me, and I get shot, I wasn't shot for jaywalking.

Being armed while jaywalking and trying to shoot at police just means people probably shouldn't mourn to much.



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[Aussie in exile]

Is this about running the population numbers against Russia to see if they literally have the people power to achieve their aims? All a bit over my head but Russia has definitely been extremely keen on getting the population numbers up, with various approaches to increase birth rates - pleading for larger families, crackdown on abortion options, even a very robust version of our baby bonus 15 or so years ago too.

Putin is once again telling Russians to have more babies, and this time he's saying ethnic survival is at stake

Some 150,000 to 190,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded in the war against Ukraine. Another million Russians have fled their homeland.

www.businessinsider.com

Putin is urging women to have as many as 8 children after so many Russians died in his war with Ukraine

Russia's birth rates have been falling for decades, and the war in Ukraine has made it worse.

www.businessinsider.com

Russian authorities crack down on abortion access amid demographic crisis

Authorities in Russia are aiming to limit abortion access in an effort to boost population growth.

www.bbc.com

= desperate for Pixie Putin

 

[barreness]

Putin's doing his best to thin the herd in Russia.

Demographic arguments tend to focus on the lack of young productive people, turning this into a forever war isn't good for this section of society. But sure the only good Russian is a dead one or something

 

[Chief]

Demographic arguments tend to focus on the lack of young productive people, turning this into a forever war isn't good for this section of society.

Definitely. Why did Putin do it, then?

But sure the only good Russian is a dead one or something

If you say so...

 

[barreness]

WTF?

How do you not get this?

If I jaywalk, and then shoot at police who go to stop me, and I get shot, I wasn't shot for jaywalking.

Being armed while jaywalking and trying to shoot at police just means people probably shouldn't mourn to much.



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I mean I don't have a source for this actual incedent but mobbs follow up post stated the bloke wasn't armed, He was shot resisting arrest trying to flee being sent to the front line.

Many Ukrainian men are being forcibly conscripted and sent to die, some try to run, how do you not get this?

 

[barreness]

Not great for those fighting a war.

Unless Putin is a humanitarian at heart, saving the species through depopulation?

Maybe I have to rethink the Vatniks. Every dead Russian a triumph of Putins humanitarian instincts, and a sign of his willingness to save the species despite itself?

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You misunderstand;

There are things that are unavoidable like depopulation

There are things that are avoidable like this war, Ukraine should have remained a Russian vassal

 

[barreness]

Ok comrade. How do you feel the Ukraine war is affecting society in Russia?

Putin polling pretty high, nationalism is a scam but it works, war is great for nationalism

Do you believe Putin invading Ukraine brings any benefits to the demographics of Russia in any way?

No, it's hurting the Ukrainian demographics far more though. The lowest fertility rate in europe, the oldest population(both prewar), mass exodus, losing territory, unpayable debts. They're staring down the barrel of a complete loss of sovereignty

How is Putin's invasion affecting yourself in day to day life?

Not a lot, I'd consider the increase in arms manufacture world wide a long term negative though

 

[barreness]

Yes. Once again Putin is merely doing what's best.

You know what's better for depopulation than killing?
Education. Perhaps Putin could have put the trillions he's spent into education for a better outcome.

Yeh sure, education is a backdoor to population controls, it'd be better if no money was spent on war.

Trillions? I guess in rubels

 

[jatz14]

You misunderstand;

There are things that are unavoidable like depopulation

There are things that are avoidable like this war, Ukraine should have remained a Russian vassal

Russia is becoming a vassal state. Do vassals have vassals?

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