Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Chadwiko]

So just a recap of current headlines and key points;

• The Russian economy is tanking, with the ruble trading at near all-time lows
• Inflation in Russia is at an all-time high
• Russia is currently spending a third of it's entire budget on the military
• Russia has been completely over-run in Syria, pulling out of the country basically entirely, and firing the General who was in charge
• Ukrainian forces are reporting that there's been a noticeable drop in systems such as MLRS being utilised by Russia, indicating that they're running low on such equipment
• Zelenskyy has said that Ukraine joining NATO is his starting point for any sort of peace negotiations
• There's currently massive anti-Russian protests underway in Georgia
• Biden has designated billions of "Trump-proof" funding for Ukraine
• The EU has allocated another round of massive assistance for Ukraine

Did I miss anything? Did I get anything wrong?

I'm looking for someone to tell me how all of this means Russia is "winning".

(I do note that the NMFC board's biggest vatnik has now deactivated his BigFooty account )

 

[Chadwiko]

This is significant.

 

[Couch Coach]

So just a recap of current headlines and key points;

• The Russian economy is tanking, with the ruble trading at near all-time lows
• Inflation in Russia is at an all-time high
• Russia is currently spending a third of it's entire budget on the military
• Russia has been completely over-run in Syria, pulling out of the country basically entirely, and firing the General who was in charge
• Ukrainian forces are reporting that there's been a noticeable drop in systems such as MLRS being utilised by Russia, indicating that they're running low on such equipment
• Zelenskyy has said that Ukraine joining NATO is his starting point for any sort of peace negotiations
• There's currently massive anti-Russian protests underway in Georgia
• Biden has designated billions of "Trump-proof" funding for Ukraine
• The EU has allocated another round of massive assistance for Ukraine

Did I miss anything? Did I get anything wrong?

I'm looking for someone to tell me how all of this means Russia is "winning".

(I do note that the NMFC board's biggest vatnik has now deactivated his BigFooty account )

• Russians raiding nightclubs to conscript more people

• Russians not happy with Kazakhstan

Loading…

www.business-standard.com

MSN

www.msn.com

Inflation is high so Russia limits food imports from neigbouring country. That should help?

• Africa / Russian relationships slipping?

War with Ukraine weakens Russia's position in Africa

Ongoing Western efforts to bring a quick end to the war in Ukraine could lead to a larger and bloodier conflict in Africa

www.atalayar.com

Maxim Shugalei: Why Russia's Africa propaganda warrior was sent home from Chad

A shadowy operative appears to overstep his mark in the battle for Russian influence in Africa.

www.bbc.com

Stretching Moscow Thin: Ukraine’s Global Strategy Against Russia

Ukraine has expanded the conflict with Russia beyond its borders to target Russian assets and influence in regions like Africa and the Middle East.

thedefensepost.com

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

Russians raiding nightclubs to conscript more people

Yep, if your a military aged man/boy seen to be having fun and enjoying life. Straight to the front!!!

 

[GhostofJimJess]

• Russians raiding nightclubs to conscript more people

That's the worst DJ I've ever seen

 

[Couch Coach]

Yep, if your a military aged man/boy seen to be having fun and enjoying life. Straight to the front!!!

The major change is that it's now not just the poor rural areas or prisoners.
Previously Moscow and Saint Petersburg have been immune from conscription.

This was aimed at reducing the political fallout to rural areas but it has also impacted the cities indirectly through inflation.
There have been estimates that Russia has lost 3.3% of it's agriculture workforce to the war.
This has impacted agriculture productivity and therefore reduced supply and increased prices.

 

[Zidane98]

Russia has been advancing in Donbas & retaken a small amount of territory in Kursk Independent People's Republic.

Problem is that advance is coming at the cost of 2k casualties per day. Billions of dollars worth of military equipment up in smoke.

It's not sustainable no matter what our resident vatniks will attempt to claim otherwise.

 

[Frank Grimes]

• Russians raiding nightclubs to conscript more people

• Russians not happy with Kazakhstan

View attachment 2179703

Loading…

www.business-standard.com

MSN

www.msn.com

Inflation is high so Russia limits food imports from neigbouring country. That should help?

Putin using a crack down on the LBGT community as an excuse to raid the night clubs.

With the propoganda they will be saying they are conscripting the gay people which the population will be thinking "good I'm safe" or will okay with it if they are very homophobic (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Russia is a homophobic country).

No doubt though, the reality is they will be conscripting the night club patrons regardless of their sexuality.

 

[tricknologist]

Europe's biggest petrol station is faltering and Assad lost Aleppo in three days after it took him 4.5 years to win it. Spare a thought for the vatniks and tankies it really has been a difficult week for them.

 

[Nothing]

That's the worst DJ I've ever seen

Russia has seen bigger train wrecks this week.

 

[Jamolad]

This is significant.


View attachment 2179700

Russia got Pantsed

 

[Mobbs]

Putin using a crack down on the LBGT community as an excuse to raid the night clubs.

With the propoganda they will be saying they are conscripting the gay people which the population will be thinking "good I'm safe" or will okay with it if they are very homophobic (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Russia is a homophobic country).

No doubt though, the reality is they will be conscripting the night club patrons regardless of their sexuality.

The lgbt movement is recognised as an extremist movement in Russia (by law). Promotion of an lgbt lifestyle in any symbolic way (eg rainbow earrings, hosting a river cruise for fay blokes) is a crime

Actually being gay is the only part of the lgbt world that isn't criminalised).

It's also connective with plans to outlaw childfree lifestyles.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Zidane98]

The lgbt movement is recognised as an extremist movement in Russia (by law). Promotion of an lgbt lifestyle in any symbolic way (eg rainbow earrings, hosting a river cruise for fay blokes) is a crime

Actually being gay is the only part of the lgbt world that isn't criminalised).

It's also connective with plans to outlaw childfree lifestyles.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

LOL I'd love to see their plans to police this one.........

 

[Mofra]

Don't bother buying a cheap Russian advent calendar either.

I got one, but every time I open a window a general falls out.

 

[Mobbs]

LOL I'd love to see their plans to police this one.........

A State Duma rep got fined for having listed himself on a gay introductions site called Hornet. He was there ages ago but it even his arguing a statute of limitations didn't get him off.

Sorry can't quote from TG on my phone. It was on ASTRA TG recently.

Edit: Some links now that I'm home:

The head of the travel agency "Men Travel" Andrey Kotov has been detained in Moscow. Law enforcement officials suspect him of organizing tours for queer people

A criminal case has been opened against the man under the article on organizing the activities of an "extremist" organization. According to preliminary data, Kotov organized trips for LGBT supporters across Russia and abroad for money. As Baza writes, one trip - along the Volga - has already taken place, and Men Travel was also planning a trip to Egypt. The detainee did not admit guilt.

On the night of November 30, security forces carried out raids on Moscow clubs as part of “events to combat LGBT propaganda.” The raids were carried out on the anniversary of the recognition of LGBT as an “extremist movement” in Russia.”

[ASTRA TG]

Former State Duma deputy who advocated drug legalization fined for “LGBT propaganda” over gay dating app profile

Alexander Barannikov was elected to the State Duma of the third convocation from the Union of Right Forces in 1999–2003, and also worked in the team of Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Zhukov. He is currently engaged in consulting and coaching. In the summer of 2024, the channel “Beware, News” writes, an unknown person reported Barannikov — then he was fined for “discrediting” the Russian army because of an anti-war post on Instagram, and in the fall — for “LGBT propaganda”.

Then the "E" center employees found his page on the gay dating app Hornet and confirmed its ownership by "comparing two photos." In court, Barannikov stated that the profile was not his, insisted on the expiration of the statute of limitations, but he was still fined.

Barannikov is considered a co-founder of the Moscow gay clubs "Central Station", "Three Monkeys" and the sauna Voda SPA. During his time as a deputy, he, in particular, advocated for the partial legalization of drugs.

[ASTRA TG]

 

[jatz14]

If Russia loses access to Tartus, it will be a strategic disaster for them.

Hmmmm. Choices choices.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[swingdog]

Timothy Snyder was on the Leading podcast recently.

Really good not only about the current war but also the Russian state of mind:

 

[Visions]

Europe's biggest petrol station is faltering and Assad lost Aleppo in three days after it took him 4.5 years to win it. Spare a thought for the vatniks and tankies it really has been a difficult week for them.

#putoutyourhammerandsickles in tribute for them.....

 

[IlovethePies]

In the last days of his presidency, Biden is planning to open up the floodgates for further military assistance to Ukraine. He wants to present Trump with "facts on the ground", ie he wants to make sure that Trump cannot suddenly stop the war even if he genuinely wanted to.

“President Biden directed me to oversee a massive surge in the military equipment that we are delivering to Ukraine so that we have spent every dollar that Congress has appropriated to us by the time that President Biden leaves office,” Jake Sullivan (Biden's National Security advisor) said Sunday on ABC’s This Week talk show program.

On November 21, the New York Times reported that the Biden administration is discussing the possibility of allowing Ukraine to deploy nuclear weapons. The Times wrote that “Several officials even suggested that Mr. Biden could allow Ukraine to have nuclear weapons again, as it did before the fall of the Soviet Union. That would be an instant and enormous deterrent. But such a step would be complicated and have serious implications.”

In the interview with ABC, Sullivan was directly asked about the NYT report above. Predictably, he denied it, saying:
“That is not under consideration. No. What we are doing is surging various conventional capacities to Ukraine so that they can effectively defend themselves and take the fight to the Russians, not nuclear capability.”

It needs to be recalled that every escalatory action taken by the Biden administration against Russia, including sending Abrams battle tanks, F-16s and long-range weapons, was preceded by an equally categorical denial on the part of the Biden administration.

 

[IlovethePies]

It is becoming increasingly clear that the Ukrainian army is desperate. Russian forces are advancing on all sides.
Here is the latest war report from the NY Times:

“Russian troops in eastern Ukraine have seized at least 10 villages and settlements in roughly as many days...the situation looks particularly precarious for Ukrainian forces in Donetsk, in Ukraine’s east, where Russian forces are closing in on their last two strongholds in the southern part of the region... The fall of the strongholds, Kurakhove and Velyka Novosilka, could pave the way for a Russian takeover of the area.”

The Financial Times, meanwhile, has pointed to a massive rise in desertions, noting, “More Ukrainian soldiers have deserted in the first 10 months of this year than in the previous two years of the war, highlighting Kyiv’s struggle to replenish its frontline ranks as Russia captures more territory in eastern Ukraine.

“In a standout case in late October, hundreds of infantry serving in Ukraine’s 123 Brigade abandoned their positions in the eastern town of Vuhledar. They returned to their homes in the Mykolayiv region where some staged a rare public protest.”

A senior US official told the Financial Times, “The simple truth is that Ukraine is not currently mobilizing or training enough soldiers to replace their battlefield losses while keeping pace with Russia’s growing military.”

This is why the good old US, Ukraine's "protector", is demanding that Zelensky lower the conscription age from 25 to 18. Zelensky is denying that he will do any such thing...for now.

 

[Val Keating]

So just a recap of current headlines and key points;

• The Russian economy is tanking, with the ruble trading at near all-time lows
• Inflation in Russia is at an all-time high
• Russia is currently spending a third of it's entire budget on the military
• Russia has been completely over-run in Syria, pulling out of the country basically entirely, and firing the General who was in charge
• Ukrainian forces are reporting that there's been a noticeable drop in systems such as MLRS being utilised by Russia, indicating that they're running low on such equipment
• Zelenskyy has said that Ukraine joining NATO is his starting point for any sort of peace negotiations
• There's currently massive anti-Russian protests underway in Georgia
• Biden has designated billions of "Trump-proof" funding for Ukraine
• The EU has allocated another round of massive assistance for Ukraine

Did I miss anything? Did I get anything wrong?

I'm looking for someone to tell me how all of this means Russia is "winning".

(I do note that the NMFC board's biggest vatnik has now deactivated his BigFooty account )

Maybe missed this.

The terrorists in Syria trying to stage a coupe will undoubtedly be squashed… eventually just like last time.

You know that the reason that the terrorist group is being supported by Israel & the US is to try to cut off Iran from supporting Lebanon & Palestine yeah?

 

[Val Keating]

They might’ve rebranded, but they’re still the same scum

Mod Edit:

Fact Check: FAKED Photo Shows Israeli Military Personnel Holding ISIS Flag | Lead Stories

Is a photograph that appears to show Israeli military personnel posing with the Israeli and ISIS flags authentic? No, that's...

leadstories.com

This post is deemed misinformative.

 

[IlovethePies]

^ It is not useful to try to draw a balance sheet between the nation of Ukraine and the nation of Russia and to decide who is "winning". The working class of both Ukraine and Russia is being horrifically harmed by this war.

The capitalist class in Ukraine, backed by US/NATO capitalist powers, and the capitalist class in Russia are involved in a deadly struggle over who maintains control of the vast mineral resources and raw materials of Russia.

They are sending the workers of Ukraine and the workers of Russia to slaughter each other for their profit interests.

If the Russian army clearly begins to overpower the Ukrainian, this will trigger the US and NATO into intervening even further, with either their own troops or supplying Ukraine with nuclear weapons, either of which would very likely trigger a nuclear exchange.

The Ukrainian army has no hope of prevailing without the continuing and escalating supply of arms, and ultimately manpower, from the US and NATO.

The only way out of this horrific bloodshed and crisis is for the workers of Ukraine and Russia to turn to each other, and instead of murdering each other for the profit interests of Ukrainian, Russian, US and European oligarchs, refuse to keep fighting, and unite in a social movement to overthrow Zelensky and Putin.

 

[Chadwiko]

Hi Val. Glad you're in this thread. Now, let's take a look what you've brought to the discussion today...

They might’ve rebranded, but they’re still the same scum View attachment 2180110

Oh dear, not a good start unfortunately.

As you've done many, many times before in the old NMFC politics thread, you've once again fallen for 'fake news' on the internet.

The photo you've posted here is fake, I'm afraid. And quite a famously fake photo too! It did the rounds back in 2023, but was quickly revealed to be a classic example of anti-semitic propaganda.

You can read about it more here, but the real photo is shown below;




Moving on...

Maybe missed this.

I did "miss this" because I don't tend to make it a priority to read the unhinged Twitter posts of a racist user who frequently posts faked/photoshopped images and faked videos.

You know that the reason that the terrorist group is being supported by Israel & the US is to try to cut off Iran from supporting Lebanon & Palestine yeah?

Uhhhh... think you've got several facts wrong there.

 

[Val Keating]

^ It is not useful to try to draw a balance sheet between the nation of Ukraine and the nation of Russia and to decide who is "winning". The working class of both Ukraine and Russia is being horrifically harmed by this war.

The capitalist class in Ukraine, backed by US/NATO capitalist powers, and the capitalist class in Russia are involved in a deadly struggle over who maintains control of the vast mineral resources and raw materials of Russia.

They are sending the workers of Ukraine and the workers of Russia to slaughter each other for their profit interests.

If the Russian army clearly begins to overpower the Ukrainian, this will trigger the US and NATO into intervening even further, with either their own troops or supplying Ukraine with nuclear weapons, either of which would very likely trigger a nuclear exchange.

The Ukrainian army has no hope of prevailing without the continuing and escalating supply of arms, and ultimately manpower, from the US and NATO.

The only way out of this horrific bloodshed and crisis is for the workers of Ukraine and Russia to turn to each other, and instead of murdering each other for the profit interests of Ukrainian, Russian, US and European oligarchs, refuse to keep fighting, and unite in a social movement to overthrow Zelensky and Putin.

A nuclear exchange would end the world as we know it. It would set off an unstoppable chain of events once the first nuclear bomb is sent.