What's going on with Carlton's list

[forwardflanker]

Essendon and Carlton have been in their rebuild cycle during the same period: 2005 onwards. Before that you were still playing finals with many 2000 players running around and we were in the Pagan phase of topping up to avoid insolvency. Considering we have been in the same cycle for 7 years now I think finishing above you for 5 of those years is pretty relevant in determining future output.

Our 2012 season was complete crap due to injuries and bad form. Our 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 season were very much around the mark of where we should have been. Essendon has been slaughtered in their finals appearances during those seasons, ones they only limped into.

It seems "upside" on this website correlates to "might be good, but we have very little evidence to suggest that will ever happen".

Carlton have failed to compete for a lot longer than Essendon. The fact that Essendon has a list with more potential than Carlton must be really disheartening for their supporters given all the time they spent on the bottom of the ladder harvesting draft picks. Essendon really haven't spent that much time in the bottom 4 at all, they've just been a lot more clever with their recruiting. It also seems like they a long term plan in place and the patience to persist with it. In contrast Carlton have lacked patience. Trading away their draft picks has failed for them, they haven't developed the picks they kept (see Gibbs) and have persisted in sacking coaches who have not given them immediate results. Until Carlton lose their arrogance, obsession with the quick fix, and find the courage to persevere with a long term plan they will remain a mid tier club not capable of winning anything.

Discuss.

 

[WeNeverTanked!]

Your bagging Carlton's list but Maxwell finished top 5 in the Pies BnF, this thread has backfired.

 

[T2B_]

Cant be bothered reading the whole thread, but even reading the OP...I don't get what the problem is. Is it suddenly mandatory to have kids winning B&Fs or something

 

[Silvagnis]

Carlton have failed to compete for a lot longer than Essendon. The fact that Essendon has a list with more potential than Carlton must be really disheartening for their supporters given all the time they spent on the bottom of the ladder harvesting draft picks. Essendon really haven't spent that much time in the bottom 4 at all, they've just been a lot more clever with their recruiting. It also seems like they a long term plan in place and the patience to persist with it. In contrast Carlton have lacked patience. Trading away their draft picks has failed for them, they haven't developed the picks they kept (see Gibbs) and have persisted in sacking coaches who have not given them immediate results. Until Carlton lose their arrogance, obsession with the quick fix, and find the courage to persevere with a long term plan they will remain a mid tier club not capable of winning anything.

Discuss.

This isn't the Bay.

 

[Fadge]

Your bagging Carlton's list but Maxwell finished top 5 in the Pies BnF, this thread has backfired.

Maxwell was also our best finals player in our 2010 premiership year.

And it's you're.

 

[Fadge]

Perhaps Mick is still on our payroll and is doing the ultimate troll.
That, or he's doing a Malcolm Blight 2001*.

(* Didn't attend their B&F this week. Had other important things on like cleaning his shower)

Mick did a pre recorded video as he had a pre arranged commitment which Carlton knew about. You collingwood supporters are reading too much in to it.

I think you will find Mick has a lot of pre-arranged commitments over the next 3 years... largely funded by his Carlton pension.

The thing I find intriguing about Mick's lack of urgency is that every time a Collingwood assistant was appointed head coach of another club, they were straight out the door, regardless of the time of the year the appointment was made. I distinctly recall his logic - 'Being a head coach is all consuming. You want to and need to immediately get into the job; it is all you will want to focus on'.

Is Mick above that?

 

[jonoman89]

Carlton have failed to compete for a lot longer than Essendon. The fact that Essendon has a list with more potential than Carlton must be really disheartening

Already addressed that point, but okey mete.

Essendon really haven't spent that much time in the bottom 4 at all, they've just been a lot more clever with their recruiting.

Then why aren't they better than us?

Trading away their draft picks has failed for them

We've traded picks for McLean and Laidler, two players who have been outstanding for us. Anything else?

 

[Corrosion]

Your username is quite apt, 'medium size', Fletcher is a star, far beyond any Carlton player not named Judd. Even so, he's clearly better than Judd today, despite starting his career what, ten years earlier?

We have the game's best player (if Ablett will allow me some liberty with this claim), Hurley and Carlisle both leave any Carlton tall for dead, Ryder is simply 'vastness' ahead of Kreuzer (I thought he was supposed to be a star).... and Gibbs..... has Heppell already gone past him? LOL.......

Zaharakis, Crameri, Hibberd, Bellchambers..... do you have ANY quality players at the Blues?

Oh wait, Carazzo isn't bad.

Tell me again, oh mod of the Carlton board, how we were told by some that Jobe would 'maybe' make the Carlton midfield ahead of Touhy?

Why is your username amusing? Because as Carlton started it's rise up the ladder, I commented that they could only go so far - a good midfield for sure, but you need the supporting talls to consistently beat the best - and you neglected to recruit them. A 'medium' sized team.

Our list on the other hand, handicapped by injury fell into a hole, but is vastly superior to yours.

The REALLY funny part? It isn't even debatable anymore; no one would want yours ahead of ours - some like to say your chance is now, or has just past; the reality - you never had one.

What dribble? Why do you always post absolute dribble for?

I have one question for you. If Essendon's list is so quality then why did they get smashed by 96 points by Carlton when the Bombers had the 'alleged' superstars of Zaharakis, Crameri, Hibberd, Bellchambers, Ryder, Hurley, Heppell, Carlisle and co all playing, whilst Carlton were missing their best 3 defenders in Jamison, Henderson and Laidler? Don't use the injury excuse either as all you're players were back by then and Carlton were missing more players at that stage.

To take a leaf out of your book....LOL

 

[chunkylover53]

Carlton were genuinely close to folding after they got done for cheating. Having no draft picks, no money and no one wanting to play for them might have something to do with them being down the bottom for so long in earlier years.

So what's Essendons excuse for achieving less than them from that period of time until now? Carlton flogged Essendon by 10 goals in a final last year, and finished above them this year. There is really nothing that shows that Essendon are well ahead of Carlton.

Anyway, Carlton's window is now, some of their best players are heading into their twilight years so its obvious they need to get their shit together, the list is capable, everyone has seen the type of footy that they are capable of playing.

Typical bigfooty tripe though, a year ago John Longmire was "the worst coach in the AFL".

 

[Fadge]

Anyway, Carlton's window is now, some of their best players are heading into their twilight years so its obvious they need to get their shit together, the list is capable, everyone has seen the type of footy that they are capable of playing.

Let's get serious, Carlton never had a window. Playing decent football 10% of the time does not a premiership team make.

 

[Fadge]

What dribble? Why do you always post absolute dribble for?

I have one question for you. If Essendon's list is so quality then why did they get smashed by 96 points by Carlton when the Bombers had the 'alleged' superstars of Zaharakis, Crameri, Hibberd, Bellchambers, Ryder, Hurley, Heppell, Carlisle and co all playing, whilst Carlton were missing their best 3 defenders in Jamison, Henderson and Laidler? Don't use the injury excuse either as all you're players were back by then and Carlton were missing more players at that stage.

To take a leaf out of your book....LOL

Carlton had a good day, Essendon had a bad day. It happens in football. Just like Carlton had a very bad day the week after (refer match v. Gold Coast).

 

[chunkylover53]

Let's get serious, Carlton never had a window. Playing decent football 10% of the time does not a premiership team make.

If their "decent football" is decent enough to beat a top 4 side by 10 goals (Collingwood), flog Essendon by 96 point etc. Then they have a window. It's not all that black and white. It is possible to expand on that "10% of the time" to a 90% of the time. Maybe Malthouse can help.

 

[forwardflanker]

If their "decent football" is decent enough to beat a top 4 side by 10 goals (Collingwood), flog Essendon by 96 point etc. Then they have a window. It's not all that black and white. It is possible to expand on that "10% of the time" to a 90% of the time. Maybe Malthouse can help.

I'm sorry but your not going to convince anyone on here that a side that loses to Gold Coast has a window of opportunity

 

[forwardflanker]

What dribble? Why do you always post absolute dribble for?

I have one question for you. If Essendon's list is so quality then why did they get smashed by 96 points by Carlton when the Bombers had the 'alleged' superstars of Zaharakis, Crameri, Hibberd, Bellchambers, Ryder, Hurley, Heppell, Carlisle and co all playing, whilst Carlton were missing their best 3 defenders in Jamison, Henderson and Laidler? Don't use the injury excuse either as all you're players were back by then and Carlton were missing more players at that stage.

To take a leaf out of your book....LOL

It's drivel not dribble.

 

[chunkylover53]

I'm sorry but your not going to convince anyone on here that a side that loses to Gold Coast has a window of opportunity

Then why start the thread if you already have your mind made up?

 

[forwardflanker]

Then why start the thread if you already have your mind made up?

Cause we're problem solving

 

[chunkylover53]

Cause we're problem solving

I'll forward this to Mick then.

 

[mediumsizered]

Cause we're problem solving

Don't confuse trolling with problem solving. They are nothing alike.

Carlton had a good day, Essendon had a bad day. It happens in football. Just like Carlton had a very bad day the week after (refer match v. Gold Coast).

That makes 3 good Carlton days & 3 bad Essendon days (including a final) in 12 months.

 

[Drexl 31]

Cause we're problem solving

Cringeworthy.......time to shut her down lads.

 

[Fadge]

Don't confuse trolling with problem solving. They are nothing alike.

This, in my opinion, is at the very heart of the problem at Carlton.

There have been a number of posts in this thread that have been able to very accurately articulate the core problems with Carlton and their list. However, those very posts have been dismissed as drivel (or dribble?) and trolling, because in a Carlton supporters eyes, there are absolutely no problems with their list, and anyone who thinks so doesn't know a thing about football and is wasting everyone's time. They are smack bang in the middle of a supposed premiership window, get hit with a couple of injuries, and roll over faster than a $20 hooker on Grey Street.

There is no premiership window at Carlton, and until they acknowledge this and recruit accordingly or display they have the quality and depth of personnel required to maintain a competitive level of football despite one or two injuries to key players (because unfortunately, injuries do happen), they will continue to make up the numbers between 6th and 15th in the competition.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

This, in my opinion, is at the very heart of the problem at Carlton.

There have been a number of posts in this thread that have been able to very accurately articulate the core problems with Carlton and their list. However, those very posts have been dismissed as drivel (or dribble?) and trolling, because in a Carlton supporters eyes, there are absolutely no problems with their list, and anyone who thinks so doesn't know a thing about football and is wasting everyone's time. They are smack bang in the middle of a supposed premiership window, get hit with a couple of injuries, and roll over faster than a $20 hooker on Grey Street.

There is no premiership window at Carlton, and until they acknowledge this and recruit accordingly or display they have the quality and depth of personnel required to maintain a competitive level of football despite one or two injuries to key players (because unfortunately, injuries do happen), they will continue to make up the numbers between 6th and 15th in the competition.

As hard as I look, I can't see it either.

I've been stating for 3 years that they have shizen depth and an imbalanced list.

They should have taken a longer term outlook when they decided to trade for Judd, and rebuilt the list properly.

They are going to have to face the inevitable unless they can pull off some sort of miracle.

 

[GoldyJr]

As hard as I look, I can't see it either.

I've been stating for 3 years that they have shizen depth and an imbalanced list.

They should have taken a longer term outlook when they decided to trade for Judd, and rebuilt the list properly.

They are going to have to face the inevitable unless they can pull off some sort of miracle.

I'm sure Carlton still has a few tricks up their sleeve....none of them legal.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

I'm sure Carlton still has a few tricks up their sleeve....none of them legal.

Carlton's major problem is that they still don't appear to have overcome the outdated philosophy of quick fixes.

It's just not a plausible solution any more in this era of salary caps and drafts.

 

[raymagoo]

this rubbish should probably be on the bay! pretty hard to figure in the b&f when a majority of your top 12 players miss huge chunks of the year!

 

[turbo44]

Crap thread. Close it down.