Who would you trade for the Eagles 1st Round pick?

[WALL-e]

I think the back up ruckman, who will be playing 35% TOG, would wanna be pretty good playing around the ground and who could slot forward or back.

I don't think a lead ruck at the 195 height, but a back up, why not?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is the opposite situation though. This is a senior player disappointed that he's being dropped regardless of his form because a club is playing youngsters regardless of their form.

In our case it's a young player not being in the club yet because his AFL form hasn't been good enough.

You couldn't find a situation further removed from the Walker situation.

Read it again - the parallels that were being drawn were between Naitanui and Walker, not Seaby and Walker.

 

[Mismatched]

What....clubs don’t do that? Say it isn’t so Batman?

Read it again - the parallels that were being drawn were between Naitanui and Walker, not Seaby and Walker.

Just because West Coast do it, doesn't mean its right, we're also talking about 2 different clubs in 2 completely different situations, WC are not going to make the finals and havn't looked like they would all season, so why not play the potential superstar over an average ruckman who's not likely to be at your club next year, make no mistake, if Cox were fit, Naitanui would be recieving far less game time(if any at all). Unlike West Coast, the Crows are looking to push hard into the finals and as such want their best 22 out on the oval, we also happen to have considerable forward line options at the moment. Certainly not the time to be just giving blokes games because they've "got considerable talent".

 

[RealSlimShady]

Please close this thread now, it's getting bad.

Who made you the thread Nazi?
How about you just stop reading the thread.

 

[cmndstab]

So crows98 is saying that the Eagles are doing things right and we're doing things wrong? That's a pretty heavy claim. The Eagles are also on record saying they're happy to bottom out to start to push for a finals berth again whereas we're on record saying the opposite.

 

[Alex99]

So crows98 is saying that the Eagles are doing things right and we're doing things wrong? That's a pretty heavy claim. The Eagles are also on record saying they're happy to bottom out to start to push for a finals berth again whereas we're on record saying the opposite.

If you’re implying (once again) i advocate tanking or bottoming out over winning games and finishing as high as you can, you’re wrong. I just believe taking one or two steps back right now will be more beneficial in the long run. The West Coast Eagles are imploring this option as well. If Dead Cox was fit, i would still be fairly confident in saying that Nick Nat would still be playing – maybe not in the ruck as often as he does, but he would still be playing AFL like he does now.

Unless we win the premiership, finishing everywhere else equals the same. There is only one team that holds the premiership cup up at the end of the year and the general coconscious suggests that will not be us so why not take one or two steps backwards by finishing in 8th spot by getting 22 games into Walker, Danger, Davis, Otten, Petrenko, ect and give us a far greater opportunity next year or the year after rather than being in the middle all the time.

They have also rebuilt a squad and won a premiership by getting solid game time into players after the Ken Judge years. Hawthorn has also done the same thing, get games into player that will win them a premiership and weed out the ones that won’t. You can say i am wrong but the West Coast Eagles (2002-2006) did it over a 4 year period and so did the Hawthorn (2005-2008) after getting rid of Peter Schwab (not advocating getting rid of Neil Craig) but those 2 clubs have gone down the path of rebuilding by getting games into the youth to be rewarded with a premiership. We have not.

We on the other hand are still trying to use a strategy that will and has failed over and over. 2005 and 2006 we had a great opportunity to win a premiership and all would be good if we did but we didn’t. This is why we need to move on and start looking at other options.

 

[kulak]

I'll be interested to see how we're going compared to West Coast in 3 or so years time.

Maybe they'll still be "developing" - or maybe they'll be beating us in finals again through having superior talent, just like they were in '05 and '06.

There seems to be an attitude from some on this board that anyone who advocates focusing on the future rather than now -- and that could be anywhere from saying we should be playing Walker & Sloane over Burton & Shirley, to saying we should have slashed the list at the end of '06 and got the priority pick in '08 -- that person is treated a bit like a mad uncle with conspiracy theories about the CIA.

In reality, it is the AFC which is out of step with the rest of the league.

That doesn't mean the AFC is wrong, but I wouldn't just take for granted that they're right.

 

[showdownhero]

Unless we win the premiership, finishing everywhere else equals the same. There is only one team that holds the premiership cup up at the end of the year and the general coconscious suggests that will not be us so why not take one or two steps backwards by finishing in 8th spot by getting 22 games into Walker, Danger, Davis, Otten, Petrenko, ect and give us a far greater opportunity next year or the year after rather than being in the middle all the time.

No golden tickets mate, unless you want to end up like Fremantle or Richmond.

 

[Alex99]

No golden tickets mate, unless you want to end up like Fremantle or Richmond.

Oh please, every club in the AFL has golden tickets expect you chose to highlight Richmond and Fremantle. They are inept because of poor decisions away from the field, not because they have players with a so called golden ticket.

 

[Coopers]

Seaby would be a good fit for Port I reckon.

How so? Is he missing teeth?

 

[Alex99]

How so? Is he missing teeth?

no heart.

 

[cmndstab]

No, because they need a ruckman ready to play. They can't afford to draft a new ruckmen and give him a few years to develop.

There are better ruckmen out there but I'm not sure how many are going to be for sale.

Hell, we should be offering them Griffin at an inflated price.

 

[Crow-mo]

Read it again - the parallels that were being drawn were between Naitanui and Walker, not Seaby and Walker.

why? unlike natanui, Walker at least knows *how* to play the game.

 

[Crow-mo]

if we traded for anyone, Luke Ball should be given a close look.

 

[cmndstab]

I also love the idea of getting Luke Ball on the cheap, but I have to wonder why he's been so disappointing. Is it a problem with St. Kilda, or just someone needing a change of scenery, or is it indicative of a larger failing of Ball's? He's always seemed like such a talented guy and yet at the moment his skills are just terrible.


If the club reckons they can turn him around we should be offering some decent pick/player to get him because a class midfielder of his size/age/experience is exactly what we need over the next few years of premiership contention.

 

[showdownhero]

Oh please, every club in the AFL has golden tickets expect you chose to highlight Richmond and Fremantle. They are inept because of poor decisions away from the field, not because they have players with a so called golden ticket.

OK fair point.

But what I was referring to was that if you allow a large group of young players into your 22 regardless of form it does more harm than good.

Anyway the debate will really come to nought as Craig has said on numerous occasions that players get a game only if they deserve it.

I think we only need to look at the progress of Dangerfield and Tippet to realise Craig and co. know what they are doing and can promote the best interests of club and player at the same time.

 

[Alex99]

OK fair point.

But what I was referring to was that if you allow a large group of young players into your 22 regardless of form it does more harm than good.

Anyway the debate will really come to nought as Craig has said on numerous occasions that players get a game only if they deserve it.

I think we only need to look at the progress of Dangerfield and Tippet to realise Craig and co. know what they are doing and can promote the best interests of club and player at the same time.

Yep and this debate (new vs. old) will always be around until Neil Craig does something to either improve that dreadful finals record or has a clean out to install some youth into the system.

He will live and die by winning and losing finals. If we go out in straight sets again (god forbid) the voices for his removal will start to get louder. Finishing 5th or even in the finals maybe good enough for some, but for others it’s not.

In my opinion every coach in the AFL knows what they are doing, it's just a matter of implementing the correct strategy and game plan to suit their players. Has Neil Craig’s game plan worked? Have we achieved anything more or less than Fremantle or Richmond over the last 5 or 6 years under his tuition?

 

[Mego Red]

If we go out in straight sets again (god forbid) the voices for his removal will start to get louder.

Has Neil Craig’s game plan worked? Have we achieved anything more or less than Fremantle or Richmond over the last 5 or 6 years under his tuition?

Hmmm - I would have thought most people who post on this board actually watch AFL.

This is odds on one of the stupider posts I think I have ever read. Outside SA, Craig is respected as one of the top three or four coaches in the competition. Have you watched how brilliantly he has managed the limited talent we have on our list? Have you watched how disciplined we play, and yet how quickly we change our gameplan on the fly during games? The Crows have gone from a mediocre gameday side to one of the best coached gameday teams in the league.

 

[Mismatched]

if we traded for anyone, Luke Ball should be given a close look.

Certainly wouldn't complain if we went after Ball, I wonder whether they might be one of the sides interested in Griffin, considering both Gardiner and King are no spring chickens, maybe to create a partnership for the future with McEvoy, could perhaps couple Griff with our first rounder, don't know that it'd be enough, but who know's with trading, its often one of the harder things to predict.

 

[Alex99]

Hmmm - I would have thought most people who post on this board actually watch AFL.

This is odds on one of the stupider posts I think I have ever read. Outside SA, Craig is respected as one of the top three or four coaches in the competition. Have you watched how brilliantly he has managed the limited talent we have on our list? Have you watched how disciplined we play, and yet how quickly we change our gameplan on the fly during games? The Crows have gone from a mediocre gameday side to one of the best coached gameday teams in the league.

Gee I am glad you’re easily satisfied.

Have we won a premiership in all theses year of success we have had? Have we even made a Grand Final?

No and no

Have we been left disappointed? yes.

So how are we any different to Richmond or Fremantle? Just because we finish in the finals doesn’t make losing in the fashion we do suck any less.

I don’t know about you, but i want to make and win premierships, not finish in the finals and say – gee we are good at finishing mid table ever ****ing year.

The way i see it is, finishing 3rd (heck even second) and 16th is exactly the same. Clearly it would be better to finish 2nd or 3rd over finishing 16th but only one team wins.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Gee I am glad you’re easily satisfied.

Have we won a premiership in all theses year of success we have had? Have we even made a Grand Final?

No and no

Have we been left disappointed? yes.

So how are we any different to Richmond or Fremantle? Just because we finish in the finals doesn’t make losing in the fashion we do suck any less.

I don’t know about you, but i want to make and win premierships, not finish in the finals and say – gee we are good at finishing mid table ever ****ing year.

The way i see it is, finishing 3rd (heck even second) and 16th is exactly the same. Clearly it would be better to finish 2nd or 3rd over finishing 16th but only one team wins.

Your logic is incredibally flawed and based purely on hindsight. In hindsight finishing 16th is better than finishing 2nd, for the long term benefit of the club. But your logic seems to suggest that trying to finish bottom is more important than winning finals consistently, which you cannot do from bottom. Please stop posting this utter anti-craig agenda drivle, which you have done for years.

 

[Alex99]

Your logic is incredibally flawed and based purely on hindsight. In hindsight finishing 16th is better than finishing 2nd, for the long term benefit of the club. But your logic seems to suggest that trying to finish bottom is more important than winning finals consistently, which you cannot do from bottom. Please stop posting this utter anti-craig agenda drivle, which you have done for years.

Anti craig? Yeah ok little do you know.

My point is, unless you win the premiership everyone else acheives the same thing. No where did i say anything about finishing bottom is a good thing. It was about 15 other club receiving the same reward.

What part of "only one team wins" don't you understand.

 

[showdownhero]

Gee I am glad you’re easily satisfied.

Have we won a premiership in all theses year of success we have had? Have we even made a Grand Final?

No and no

Have we been left disappointed? yes.

So how are we any different to Richmond or Fremantle? Just because we finish in the finals doesn’t make losing in the fashion we do suck any less.

I don’t know about you, but i want to make and win premierships, not finish in the finals and say – gee we are good at finishing mid table ever ****ing year.

The way i see it is, finishing 3rd (heck even second) and 16th is exactly the same. Clearly it would be better to finish 2nd or 3rd over finishing 16th but only one team wins.

Why don't you ask a Freo or Tiges supporter if they would prefer consistent finals appearances or perennial cellar dwelling?

 

[macca23]

Yep and this debate (new vs. old) will always be around until Neil Craig does something to either improve that dreadful finals record or has a clean out to install some youth into the system.

C98, where have you been this year??

We have had several debutants this year in addition to Dangerfield, Otten andSellar who have played regular AFL footy.

You are like a broken record harping on this path of gibberish. While you might think that it's cool to think differently than everybody else, so do the oddballs that still think the earth is flat.

Time to give it a rest.

 

[Crow-mo]

incidentally aren't all these "golden tickets" that every team has, just an excuse for less knowledgable supporters to explain away the merits of players they cannot fathom but the coaching panels can?

if you see no merit in a player, despite said player having the faith of the match committee, you could re-evaluate your opinion or the state of injury/list, but why do that when you could just say that they're all idiots and its cause the player has a golden ticket etc etc blah blah... much easier than knowing the something about the game, or forming a proper opinion.