Roast Why Derek?

[4#Didak#4]

With Sinclair doubtful for 2018 after soft tissue and concussion injuries ruined his season and Ramsay's future even more in doubt, Murray's selection makes a lot of sense.

Geoff Walsh on NAB Draft Radio last week, suggested Darcy Moore would be tried down back during the pre-season. This would allow Reid to stay forward. Our big weakness this year was our offensive pressure; we were simply second rate once the ball hit inside 50. How to rectify the problem?
If Reid plays permanent CHF with Grundy/Cox at FF, we would still need offensive pressure.

Elliott and Faz are certainties and whilst both are capable of turning a game off their own boots, neither are defensive beasts. How about Goldsack staying forward? It has worked in the past. Now for the remaining spot. There's plenty of love for Kirby and he could well fill a spot, but how about a call from left field? Could Ben Sinclair play forward? He has the pace and the defensive pressure to be considered I reckon. Has Ben ever played forward? Bucks needs to think outside the box in 2018. Provided Sinkers in still on our list going forward, it's worth considering a new role for him.

Yes he started as a forward and was poor. But his whole game was poor. He went back to the twos and buckley converted him to a defender. I like the thinking though. Whilst he was poor a long time ago his game has improved all round a lot so i think he could go ok as a forward now. However i think the future is daicos and kirby.

 

[mike123]

No club wanted him besides North, but only for free or they'd go for him late in the draft.
Nobody wants you that's all one needs to know.

Deal was "fine" because all the club did was allow him easy passage to North as a gesture. To say otherwise is not fully appreciating that nobody wanted him, except North would risk him but only at no cost.

So I'm not fussed on Williams.
By best guess is Club had enough of him. Looks like that was general consensus across the board.

The deal wasn't fine becuase we were left with a hole in the small defender position and wasted 5 years development and games for north to have a free player. Whether we wanted to keep or not doesn't change and whether or not north was the only club who wanted him or not doesn't change this.

 

[cityslick1]

I get a Feeling that when Hine likes someone he is happy to pay Overs to make sure they get to Collingwood

Agree... ala James aish.

And if we and James have another bad year in 2018, I can see Hine being sacked and Aish being traded / delisted, with Hine blaming bucks and the coaching team for poor development skills, with Bucks publicly blaming poor list management decisions, and not his coaching style.

Hope none of it happens of course, but we are only one or two steps away from being the biggest club in the land, but an absolute laughing stock for multiple shizen decisions made, and resultant on field mediocrity.

 

[BPikkers]

Stalemate?

Seems like the beginning of a beautiful union.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

The deal wasn't fine becuase we were left with a hole in the small defender position and wasted 5 years development and games for north to have a free player. Whether we wanted to keep or not doesn't change and whether or not north was the only club who wanted him or not doesn't change this.

You can say that about any player a club moves on. Moot point once you decide player is to be off the list.

No club in my view can work to the standards you'd like set. But I like your aspiration.

 

[Bad Horse]

I agree. Why Derek. Its such a nuff name. Old school and boring.

Like Keith

Or Gordon

Or Donald.

Why not Kamdynne or Kaydhe or Jaxxson. Needs more extraneous consonants and y instead of boring vowels. And glottal stops.

I hereby dub thee

D'Wreckk

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

...Needs more extraneous consonants... instead of boring vowels.

Would that make you Bad Whores for the dyslexics at home?

Edit: and to prove the virtue of your argument BH, the poster below DaVe86 has taken nomenclature to high art IF you say it with a Kiwi accent

 

[DaVe86]

I think if we can hold up defensively, we should be playing all of Goldsack, Elliott and Varcoe inside forward 50. That means we have 3 really strong defensive pressure players, while not sacrificing a lot offensively. De Goey is the other that would float forward.

 

[jackcass]

Yes he started as a forward and was poor. But his whole game was poor. He went back to the twos and buckley converted him to a defender. I like the thinking though. Whilst he was poor a long time ago his game has improved all round a lot so i think he could go ok as a forward now. However i think the future is daicos and kirby.

Was actually quite good, just sprayed a few gettable shots on goal.

 

[TKiL]

People outside the inner sanctum can argue all they like. It's irrelevant...

Are you part of the inner sanctum?

 

[Collingwoodity]

Was actually quite good, just sprayed a few gettable shots on goal.

He wasn't.

He was good at pressure, but bad at goalkicking which is critical for forwards. The issue is, for forwards, if you can't mark or kick, you have a use by date.

 

[jackcass]

He wasn't.

He was good at pressure, but bad at goalkicking which is critical for forwards. The issue is, for forwards, if you can't mark or kick, you have a use by date.

Managed 16 goals 14 across his 1st 25 games playing as a small forward, Lewis Jetta as a similar type managed 8 goals 25 in his 1st 25 games. I'm happy for you to hold this incorrect view about a kid learning his craft, doesn't actually make it so though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'm tipping he plays 17 minimum this season

And if so, I know I'm going to be ecstatic

Wells? Depends on his training load and how it is tailored to him. Should that come to fruition then we're playing finals no question - even if we improve nil elsewhere, however we will. How much and how broadly is the $64000 question

 

[Bad Horse]

Would that make you Bad Whores for the dyslexics at home?

Edit: and to prove the virtue of your argument BH, the poster below DaVe86 has taken nomenclature to high art IF you say it with a Kiwi accent

Rumours i was the horse on 7th avenue in "the boxer" have never been proven.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Managed 16 goals 14 across his 1st 25 games playing as a small forward, Lewis Jetta as a similar type managed 8 goals 25 in his 1st 25 games. I'm happy for you to hold this incorrect view about a kid learning his craft, doesn't actually make it so though.

It's not incorrect. If Sinclair was as good a forward as you say he is, he would not have been moved to the backline.

If you are using Lewis Jetta who kicked 19 consecutive behinds as a good comparison for Sinclair's goalkicking ability, I don't disagree.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Agree... ala James aish.

And if we and James have another bad year in 2018, I can see Hine being sacked and Aish being traded / delisted, with Hine blaming bucks and the coaching team for poor development skills, with Bucks publicly blaming poor list management decisions, and not his coaching style.

Hope none of it happens of course, but we are only one or two steps away from being the biggest club in the land, but an absolute laughing stock for multiple shizen decisions made, and resultant on field mediocrity.

For starters we are the biggest club in the land, where we sit at the end of next year is on a knife edge. From journos to supporters it seems the club are making very questionable trade decisions or lack there of. We will witness either a master stroke or as you say be a laughing stock, I suspect that the club knows something (and won't publicly explain) we don't and / or are banking on the development / off field changes to have effect on the cattle we have as well as what we bring in the draft

 

[jackcass]

It's not incorrect. If Sinclair was as good a forward as you say he is, he would not have been moved to the backline.

If you are using Lewis Jetta who kicked 19 consecutive behinds as a good comparison for Sinclair's goalkicking ability, I don't disagree.

I'm saying that posters on a footy forum are way too quick to judge. If a kid isn't comparable to the current AA by position in his few seasons then they seek reasons to denounce him. Go back and actually watch his games. Yes, he sprayed some gettable goals, but he was actually doing everything right to gain those shots on goal in the first place. He's shown from his recent goal kicking opportunities that he's a much more assured shot on goal, hardly surprising given he's a much more confident footballer. He was fine then and he'd be fine now.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Rumours i was the horse on 7th avenue in "the boxer" have never been proven.

You're not Boxer in Animal Farm?

 

[Collingwoodity]

I'm saying that posters on a footy forum are way too quick to judge. If a kid isn't comparable to the current AA by position in his few seasons then they seek reasons to denounce him. Go back and actually watch his games. Yes, he sprayed some gettable goals, but he was actually doing everything right to gain those shots on goal in the first place. He's shown from his recent goal kicking opportunities that he's a much more assured shot on goal, hardly surprising given he's a much more confident footballer. He was fine then and he'd be fine now.

It's not fair or helpful to generalise.

The criticism levelled at Sinclair as a forward is and was well founded. I don't know if you meant he would be fine now as a forward or as a backman. If you meant as a forward, we have no idea. If as a backman, we know he performed well, but Sinclair's performance as a backman is not the issue in discussion.

 

[jackcass]

It's not fair or helpful to generalise.

The criticism levelled at Sinclair as a forward is and was well founded. I don't know if you meant he would be fine now as a forward or as a backman. If you meant as a forward, we have no idea. If as a backman, we know he performed well, but Sinclair's performance as a backman is not the issue in discussion.

It's not fair or helpful to characterise something off a limited exposure or 1 discrete aspect. His forward play was good, just sprayed a few gettable shots on goal, wasn't the 1st player to ever do it, won't be the last. Would likely have settled into a forward role much as he did in defence. Would be more than happy to see him played forward again if that were to eventuate. Happy for you to believe different.

 

[mike123]

You can say that about any player a club moves on. Moot point once you decide player is to be off the list.

No club in my view can work to the standards you'd like set. But I like your aspiration.

I'm not asking for a premiership every year I'm just asking for the club to try and get fair value for a best 22 player.

I'm not okay with pissing away development but If we couldn't do anything else about it like with Jon Marsh then I'll cop it but with Williams we could have done better.

 

[Collingwoodity]

It's not fair or helpful to characterise something off a limited exposure or 1 discrete aspect. His forward play was good, just sprayed a few gettable shots on goal, wasn't the 1st player to ever do it, won't be the last. Would likely have settled into a forward role much as he did in defence. Would be more than happy to see him played forward again if that were to eventuate. Happy for you to believe different.

I am happy to disagree but I don't think you'll find much agreement that he was better forward than back.

 

[TW Sherrin]

I am happy to disagree but I don't think you'll find much agreement that he was better forward than back.

its much easier to be a better back than forward.

 

[mike123]

Honestly I can't remember the missed shots of Sinclair. I do rememebe the howler against Sydney in the prelim though.

My problem was he was just meh up forward, he chased hard but wasn't a strong tackler, wasn't a strong ball winner wasn't deleviering inside 50 pinpoint passes, wasn't a strong mark, wasn't a prolific scorer and had pace but only used it sometimes.

Down back he's no world beater but it allows him to use his greatest asset, his pace.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I'm not asking for a premiership every year I'm just asking for the club to try and get fair value for a best 22 player.

I'm not okay with pissing away development but If we couldn't do anything else about it like with Jon Marsh then I'll cop it but with Williams we could have done better.

Well just have to agree to disagree.

Nobody wanted Williams.

Not sure what that says but it says something about him.

North would have taken him late in draft so Collingwood helped that passage.

But anyway it's one we can disagree on.

Ps always happy to get more from other clubs.

PPS we seem to have been bent over a bit in recent times.