Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[carltonchelsea]

I'm far from an expert on Islam so I will leave your question to those more qualified.

What I was trying to explain that the Taliban draws more from Pashtun nationalistic ideology than Islam.

I agree that the Taliban are a somewhat interesting entity and may only share Islam and the act of being Muslim as an identity in name only, their culture appears to be significantly different to other Islamic cultures.
I apologise for not getting back to you previously, as I was given some time in the naughty corner and forgot to circle back to our conversation about book burning I think?!

 

[ZEV]

I agree that the Taliban are a somewhat interesting entity and may only share Islam and the act of being Muslim as an identity in name only, their culture appears to be significantly different to other Islamic cultures.
I apologise for not getting back to you previously, as I was given some time in the naughty corner and forgot to circle back to our conversation about book burning I think?!

Yeah I called you ignorant. Sorry about that was having a bad day. Got to love the naughty corner I'm a frequent visitor myself.

 

[evolved2]

To me it looks like you're conflating the Religion with local customs and culture of some areas where the Religion is dominant.

Those things are not connected.

Do you argue the 'Western' phenomena of violence against women to be related to Christianity, or Catholic church priests repeatedly molesting boys and covering it up to be official Church dogma?

About the only 'causation' I can see is if you frame Islam as a patriarchal and misogynistic religion (and it is) and thus creates a fertile ground for violence towards women (even though such violence is prohibited in the religion).

It's a stretch, but there is something there I could see.

Cultural practices are often incorporated by religion; patriarchal religion is fertile ground for actions and beliefs that are inherently anti-female irrespective of what the Quran and Hadiths say on specific topics.

Believers often disagree on interpretation also - who's to say one group is right and another wrong in their interpretation? Maybe Allah hates gays and women, maybe he doesn't. It depends who you ask. Pick any topic and you'll find a justification for both sides in the bible or quran.

If you need a doctorate to know the Quran doesn't allow you to hit your wife, there's an issue.

 

[Malifice]

Cultural practices are often incorporated by religion

Yeah, but in this case they're not.

Honor killings predate Islam, and are expressly prohibited by the Religion.

 

[evolved2]

Yeah, but in this case they're not.

Honor killings predate Islam, and are expressly prohibited by the Religion.

The burqa predates Islam but has been adopted by parts of the religion.

I'm not convinced honor killings are definitively opposed in the Islamic texts. There are passages that can be interpreted as justifying honor killings in some circumstances.

 

[Number37]

In Australia:
1 in 4 women have experienced violence at the hands of an intimate partner.
120 women are hospitalised each week due to domestic violence.
1 woman each week is killed by an intimate partner.
65% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a former partner didn't report it to the police.
82% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a current partner didn't report it to the police.

This shit is happening in our own country.
The idea that it's only other people who do bad things to women is disturbing.
Domestic violence is a serious f'ing problem, why do people continue to trivialise it with bullshit like we have seen in this discussion?

 

[evolved2]

In Australia:
1 in 4 women have experienced violence at the hands of an intimate partner.
120 women are hospitalised each week due to domestic violence.
1 woman each week is killed by an intimate partner.
65% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a former partner didn't report it to the police.
82% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a current partner didn't report it to the police.

This shit is happening in our own country.
The idea that it's only other people who do bad things to women is disturbing.
Domestic violence is a serious f'ing problem, why do people continue to trivialise it with bullshit like we have seen in this discussion?

I haven't seen anyone trivialise DV or claim that it's not a problem in Australia.

Which posts are you referring to in particular?

 

[carltonchelsea]

In Australia:
1 in 4 women have experienced violence at the hands of an intimate partner.
120 women are hospitalised each week due to domestic violence.
1 woman each week is killed by an intimate partner.
65% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a former partner didn't report it to the police.
82% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a current partner didn't report it to the police.

This shit is happening in our own country.
The idea that it's only other people who do bad things to women is disturbing.
Domestic violence is a serious f'ing problem, why do people continue to trivialise it with bullshit like we have seen in this discussion?

4:34
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great. "

 

[Number37]

I haven't seen anyone trivialise DV or claim that it's not a problem in Australia.

Which posts are you referring to in particular?

Making it out like domestic violence in Islam, or any other particular section of the community, is somehow worse than domestic violence in general is trivialising it.
DV is a scourge.
Using it point score just because you hate a religion is poor form.

 

[Number37]

4:34
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great. "

And that is different to DV in any other setting how?
It isn't different.
That you attempt to use it to pointscore just says that you don't actually give a shit about DV.

 

[ZEV]

In Australia:
1 in 4 women have experienced violence at the hands of an intimate partner.
120 women are hospitalised each week due to domestic violence.
1 woman each week is killed by an intimate partner.
65% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a former partner didn't report it to the police.
82% of women who experienced domestic violence at the hands of a current partner didn't report it to the police.

This shit is happening in our own country.
The idea that it's only other people who do bad things to women is disturbing.
Domestic violence is a serious f'ing problem, why do people continue to trivialise it with bullshit like we have seen in this discussion?

How do those statistics compare to predominantly Muslim countries?

 

[carltonchelsea]

And that is different to DV in any other setting how?
It isn't different.
That you attempt to use it to pointscore just says that you don't actually give a shit about DV.

Nah not really compadre, one is a personal issue, the other is mandated by the Muslims imaginary sky daddy!
Secular domestic violence perpetrators don’t have a special book they can point to for their crimes!

 

[Gralin]

Abusers don't need an excuse to abuse

 

[evolved2]

Making it out like domestic violence in Islam, or any other particular section of the community, is somehow worse than domestic violence in general is trivialising it.
DV is a scourge.
Using it point score just because you hate a religion is poor form.

You talk about cookers all the time, yet like to be protective of religious cookers for some reason.

Why shouldn't I hate a religious text that promotes DV? Give me one reason.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Abusers don't need an excuse to abuse

Yeah, religious folk of all ilks have “never” pointed to their book as a reference for privilege over another section of the community hey, cough cough Israel cough clears throat!
I believe in chess, we call that check mate, mate!

 

[Gralin]

Yeah, religious folk of all ilks have “never” pointed to their book as a reference for privilege over another section of the community hey, cough cough Israel cough clears throat!
I believe in chess, we call that check mate, mate!

Not what I said is it

 

[carltonchelsea]

Not what I said is it

FFS, do me the favour and not make me bloody quote the desert trilogy of stupidity, hatred, misogyny, homophobia, genocide, infanticide, domestic abuse and control please Gralin, please don’t make me ****ing do it?!

 

[Gralin]

FFS, do me the favour and not make me bloody quote the desert trilogy of stupidity, hatred, misogyny, homophobia, genocide, infanticide, domestic abuse and control please Gralin, please don’t make me ****ing do it?!

I've got no idea what you're on about other than trying to pretend that DV is different if the person committing it is Muslim which is your garden variety bigotry

 

[Number37]

You talk about cookers all the time, yet like to be protective of religious cookers for some reason.

Why shouldn't I hate a religious text that promotes DV? Give me one reason.

DV in Islam is the same as DV in any other community.
DV is in every community.

Trying to pretend that DV in Islam (or any other community) is somehow different to any other DV, trivialises DV.
If you really care about DV, then you wouldn't be trivialising it.


I am protective of people's right to be whatever they choose to be.

 

[Number37]

Nah not really compadre, one is a personal issue, the other is mandated by the Muslims imaginary sky daddy!
Secular domestic violence perpetrators don’t have a special book they can point to for their crimes!

I thought you believed in thought and logic.
Somehow magically, thought and logic leads you to conclude that a book makes people commit domestic violence.

 

[Number37]

How do those statistics compare to predominantly Muslim countries?

We can add "only" if it makes you feel better?

Only 1 woman a week gets killed by an intimate partner.
Only 85% of women don't report DV to police.
Only
Only
...

Or we can say that our stats are better than the stats of predominantly muslim countries....if it makes you feel better?

 

[carltonchelsea]

I've got no idea what you're on about other than trying to pretend that DV is different if the person committing it is Muslim which is your garden variety bigotry

Ahahaha that’s a pathetic attempt!
I’ve got Muslim friends ya nonce!
Now if you return to my previous post, that’s it, where do I specifically mention Muslims?

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all advocate Domestic Violence FFS!
They encourage it, do you now understand my Israel correlation?
The books and the ****ing teachings are the issue!
In secular society we have to study and search for other reasons as to why a person would domestically abuse their partner, with the religious, it’s not that hard, read their ****ing books FFS!

 

[carltonchelsea]

I thought you believed in thought and logic.
Somehow magically, thought and logic leads you to conclude that a book makes people commit domestic violence.

Well, it made a bunch of Saudis fly two planes in to the World Trade Centre, made a bunch of peaceful Indonesians blow up 200 Australians, so, a bit of DV ain’t a yuge stretch now is it?

 

[Gralin]

Ahahaha that’s a pathetic attempt!
I’ve got Muslim friends ya nonce!

Why are you calling me a pedophile?

Now if you return to my previous post, that’s it, where do I specifically mention Muslims?

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all advocate Domestic Violence FFS!
They encourage it, do you now understand my Israel correlation?
The books and the ****ing teachings are the issue!
In secular society we have to study and search for other reasons as to why a person would domestically abuse their partner, with the religious, it’s not that hard, read their ****ing books FFS!

DV exists without religion and you should ease up on the insults or alternatively take a break if you can't

 

[carltonchelsea]

Why are you calling me a pedophile?

DV exists without religion and you should ease up on the insults or alternatively take a break if you can't

Bye bye, you’re incapable of seeing anything beyond your limited biases!