Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)

[Meteoric Rise]

View attachment 2025697

Looks like they forgot to mention they were only counting the home and away seasons.

Because after the full 2017 season including finals, it was:

D Martin 20.86
P Dangerfield 20.09

It is a shame Patrick didn't learn to kick to any sort of level that would cut it in finals.

I wonder who the highest rating player in a Premiership year is? Some people just seem to know how to make their dominance count for their team. And some don't.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

I’m just trying to work out why the graphic is ordered the way it is

It’s not in chronological or overall rating order

Whoever made it needs to be punched

Isn’t it in overall rating order (descending)?

 

[Muddiemoose]

Isn’t it in overall rating order (descending)?

I can’t believe I looked at it for a good few minutes without picking that up

Was driving me insane…


It’s obviously been a long week

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

I can’t believe I looked at it for a good few minutes without picking that up

Was driving me insane…


It’s obviously been a long week

I was thrown for a minute too.

 

[jakson68]

Looks like they forgot to mention they were only counting the home and away seasons.

Because after the full 2017 season including finals, it was:

D Martin 20.86
P Dangerfield 20.09

It is a shame Patrick didn't learn to kick to any sort of level that would cut it in finals.

I wonder who the highest rating player in a Premiership year is? Some people just seem to know how to make their dominance count for their team. And some don't.

I must admit it makes me smile, when watching the lengths you guys go to protect Dustbin.

It is sad, it is embarrassing, but it makes me smile.

Face it GAJ (so far) is the best and it isn't even close.

 

[JackOutback]

I was thrown for a minute too.

I was thrown by bearded GAJ.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I must admit it makes me smile, when watching the lengths you guys go to protect Dustbin.

It is sad, it is embarrassing, but it makes me smile.

Face it GAJ (so far) is the best and it isn't even close.

Protect Dusty, lol.

Conceded Ablett has a better home and away record, though Dusty's is also very good.

Now look at their respective finals records. Because that is definitely not close.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

147 coaches votes in a single season?

Likely requires an incredibly dominant home and away season + an incredibly dominant finals series.

Also, will anybody ever beat that average of 5.88 coaches votes per game over a whole season? It seems an awful lot.

 

[bzparkes]

147 coaches votes in a single season?

Likely requires an incredibly dominant home and away season + an incredibly dominant finals series.

Also, will anybody ever beat that average of 5.88 coaches votes per game over a whole season? It seems an awful lot.

Who got that?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Who got that?

It happened relatively recently. Do you think it will ever be beaten?

 

[Gavin Excell]

Oh another Dusty thread

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Oh another Dusty thread

Do you think any player will ever beat that mark?

 

[Headless]

147 coaches votes in a single season?

Likely requires an incredibly dominant home and away season + an incredibly dominant finals series.

Also, will anybody ever beat that average of 5.88 coaches votes per game over a whole season? It seems an awful lot.

Oh, you.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Given his talents Dustin Martin was one of the most underwhelming home & away players in history.

I don’t clear nearly enough to fact check, but I find it surprising that he ever won any home and away season awards at all.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Given his talents Dustin Martin was one of the most underwhelming home & away players in history.

I don’t clear nearly enough to fact check, but I find it surprising that he ever won any home and away season awards at all.

No fact checking needed.

In the 2017 season Dusty won the Coaches MVP with a still record 122 votes from 22 matches.

He then won the Gary Ayres Award for best finals player(as voted by coaches) with 25 votes.

122 + 25 = 147 coaches votes from 25 matches.

Do you think anybody will ever beat that, including beating the whole season average of 5.88 coaches votes per game?

 

[Underarm]

Do you think any player will ever beat that mark?

Yes. Much like the Brownlow this year, coaches votes will become more centralised at the top and someone will hit 200 even though they don't deserve it.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yes. Much like the Brownlow this year, coaches votes will become more centralised at the top and someone will hit 200 even though they don't deserve it.

Coaches know the players' roles though. For eg last year despite McRae dead set cheat voting for Daicos, and an increase to 23 games per home & away season, and Cripps & Daicos passing the previous Brownlow voting record they didn't even pass the record 122 coaches MVP votes, let alone the 5.88 vots per game average.

 

[Sirlemsip]

No fact checking needed.

In the 2017 season Dusty won the Coaches MVP with a still record 122 votes from 22 matches.

He then won the Gary Ayres Award for best finals player(as voted by coaches) with 25 votes.

122 + 25 = 147 coaches votes from 25 matches.

Do you think anybody will ever beat that, including beating the whole season average of 5.88 coaches votes per game?

Dusty had many 'good' seasons, but only one truly amazing season (2017).
Yes, it was probably the best individual season - in the modern/AFL era with current stat records.

The majority of supporters (i.e. non-Richmond supporters) if given the choice would easily take the whole career of GAJ over Dusty.

I would also strongly argue that Leigh Matthews' 1977 season was better than Dusty in 2017.
Hawthorn didn't win the premiership that season, but Lethal's stats that year were absurd:

• 27.1 disposals / game
• 3.8 goals / game

For comparison, Dusty's 2017:

• 29.7 disposals / game
• 1.5 goals / game

 

[blaisee]

Dusty had many 'good' seasons, but only one truly amazing season (2017).
Yes, it was probably the best individual season - in the modern/AFL era with current stat records.

The majority of supporters (i.e. non-Richmond supporters) if given the choice would easily take the whole career of GAJ over Dusty.

I would also strongly argue that Leigh Matthews' 1977 season was better than Dusty in 2017.
Hawthorn didn't win the premiership that season, but Lethal's stats that year were absurd:

• 27.1 disposals / game
• 3.8 goals / game

For comparison, Dusty's 2017:

• 29.7 disposals / game
• 1.5 goals / game

Thats crazy talk

One was a mercenary who stat padded and went missing in finals

The other was the ultimate team player who was his teams best player in almost every final he ever played, and undoubtedly the greatest grand final player in history

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Dusty had many 'good' seasons, but only one truly amazing season (2017).
Yes, it was probably the best individual season - in the modern/AFL era with current stat records.

The majority of supporters (i.e. non-Richmond supporters) if given the choice would easily take the whole career of GAJ over Dusty.

I would also strongly argue that Leigh Matthews' 1977 season was better than Dusty in 2017.
Hawthorn didn't win the premiership that season, but Lethal's stats that year were absurd:

• 27.1 disposals / game
• 3.8 goals / game

For comparison, Dusty's 2017:

• 29.7 disposals / game
• 1.5 goals / game

Will anybody ever beat that Coaches vote season record of 147?

It is supported by:

• then record Brownlow votes
• Norm Smith Medal win adjudged best, best, best, best, 3rd best by the 5 judges
• Season leading average player rating
• Finals average of player rating above 24 - the highest ever recorded(apart from Dusty's own astonishing 26.9 player rating average from 4 finals in 2020.)

Matthews 1977 season was incredible, but it was a different(much higher scoring) era, and he wasn't so damaging in the finals series, and did not win the Brownlow. We will never have the tools to compare modern players with players of past eras properly, so I was more thinking of the future with this question.

 

[Sirlemsip]

Will anybody ever beat that Coaches vote season record of 147?

Matthews 1977 season was incredible, but it was a different(much higher scoring) era, and he wasn't so damaging in the finals series, and did not win the Brownlow. We will never have the tools to compare modern players with players of past eras properly, so I was more thinking of the future with this question.

It will take a long time, but records are made to be broken.
For example, if North Melbourne and West Coast finally start getting double figure wins in a season, Sheezel and Reid are the type of players who could challenge 147.

Yes, Matthews' era was more high scoring (meaning goals were easier to come across), but it was also an era with far less disposals, meaning his average of 27 was probably closer to 30 or even 35 in todays' game.

It is always difficult to compare players from decades apart.
In any case, I would still have GAJ comfortably above Dusty from a career perspective.

The GAJ vs. Matthews debate is an interesting one.

 

[Sirlemsip]

Thats crazy talk

One was a mercenary who stat padded and went missing in finals

The other was the ultimate team player who was his teams best player in almost every final he ever played, and undoubtedly the greatest grand final player in history

Dusty was a great finals player, no doubt.

He had three fantastic GF performances, but even Richmond supporters would agree that the overall quality of opponents was... low.

Anyway, you agree with my point - as a Richmond supporter you rank Dusty above GAJ.

Let's see what some other neutrals think.

 

[STPer18]

Dusty was a great finals player, no doubt.

He had three fantastic GF performances, but even Richmond supporters would agree that the overall quality of opponents was... low.

Anyway, you agree with my point - as a Richmond supporter you rank Dusty above GAJ.

Let's see what some other neutrals think.

Moved Thread - Who was/is the better player. Gary Ablett jnr or Dustin Martin?

Different players. Ablett jnr was a dominant midfeider who accumulated possessions at will. Dustin is the ultimate big game player and probably the greatest finals player of all time.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Cyclops]

Dusty likely the greatest big game player ever, probably gone past Billy Picken Snake Baker and Dermott Brereton.

Not the best player ever unless you make the criteria "big game performances".

 

[Meteoric Rise]

It will take a long time, but records are made to be broken.
For example, if North Melbourne and West Coast finally start getting double figure wins in a season, Sheezel and Reid are the type of players who could challenge 147.

Yes, Matthews' era was more high scoring (meaning goals were easier to come across), but it was also an era with far less disposals, meaning his average of 27 was probably closer to 30 or even 35 in todays' game.

It is always difficult to compare players from decades apart.
In any case, I would still have GAJ comfortably above Dusty from a career perspective.

The GAJ vs. Matthews debate is an interesting one.

Ablett Jr 4 Grand Finals for 13 Smith Medal votes. Dusty 3 Grand Finals for 43 Smith Medal votes.

Ablett Jr finals averaged 23 disposals 1.3 goals + assists. Dusty finals averaged 22 disposals, 2.8 goals + assists.

Ablett Jr probably has it over everyone else in the modern era for consistently high level home & away performances, though Franklin is probably at least his equal in reality once you allow for the positions they played. Ablett's big game record is decent, but is pretty middling for players at this level in the discussion.

Where with all these players their finals records seem to be a step down from their incredible home & away records, with Dusty it is the opposite. His finals performances are a step up from his very credible home & away record. But then he threw in 2017 which is pretty clearly the most decorated season any player has ever played.