Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Sydney

[Ambrose Burnside]

You’re right, he certainly wasn’t an orphan in that regard but just thought it seemed an interesting reception from the crowd that’s all. Venting some frustration perhaps.

Darling copped it the most where I was sitting.

Like from my seat.

It was me.

 

[Goroyals22]

Coming in late here, but how many people listen to the Real Footy podcast?

It was pointed out on this week's pod that WCE fans were among the worst offenders booing Goodes - I wonder if the Swans and their fans had forgotten? I certainly wasn't aware that we were offenders in this regard (mostly because I was living in Melbourne and dependant on FTA so was NEVER going to see a WC/Sydney match on FTA in Melb). Maybe they decided they needed give a little back because they were reminded too. Mind you, next to Freo, I'd put Sydney as our biggest rival team, so it may have had nothing to do with Goodes.

It makes me ashamed to learn that my fellow fans were part of that pile-on though. I hope we've all learned better since then.

You must carry alot of guilt around for things others may or may not have done then..

 

[Rowan18]

I wouldn't think Swans players still think about that, then blame WC fans more than others teams.

That peanut in the crowd with the "it wasn't a mark" placard? Embarrassed to be an Eagles supporter.

"Sampi was held" is a hilarious meme that makes fun of the pettiness of supporters at times (specifically blaming an umpiring non decision causing us to lose a flag). It also pays homage to the great rivalry those two teams had. No one is saying that line in seriousness.

 

[Matera92]

I don't think racism had anything to do with it. Wce fans are close to the most vocal in the comp and good on an. I think the swans were giving it back to them and having a bit of fun with it. Nothing overboard from both crowd and swans. Fair play I say

Your signature is awesome and made me crack a smile, well done!

 

[junebug]

That is a complete lie. Hawks and Carlton fans gave it to Goodes in the weeks before playing us.

When he eventually played us he was doing his usual BS of playing for frees and sniping off the ball, then conned the ump into giving him one in F50 when wrestling with Schofield. He quite rightly got booed when kicking the goal as the free was not there.

Jetta then did his made up spear throw dance at the crowd and also got a boo, no surprise there.

Thanks, good to have this refuted. As I said, I was only seeing what Ch7 deemed worth showing in Melbourne at the time and never saw the whole picture. Maybe I should write a letter to Michael Gleeson at Real Footy and point that out, since it was them peddling that view. I was just theorising based on what I had heard and most definitely did not wish to start an argument about Goodes or racism in general.

 

[CM9000]

Was it injuries and COVID that made us win 10 games last year and miss the finals?

We fielded a star studded, experienced team vs the Dogs in Rd 15 and lost by 55. It was 33 scoring shots to 13. Then we lost by 15 goals to Sydney in Geelong, and then to the wooden spooners at home.

The unfortunate reality is that we're just not very good. It's not 2 hours, it's 3.5 years. We've gone backwards each year since 2018. How many players on our list have enhanced their reputation since the 2018 flag? From the actual flag 22 I count Ryan, probably Sheed and Barrass. On top of that Allen, Waterman and newbies who hadn't yet featured. We've got a lot of players who are not at the level they were when we were contending.

I think the COVID/injury stuff has distracted a few people from the fact that with a pretty easy draw to start the year we'd be pushing shit uphill to have a positive W-L record anyway. We got flogged in the derby by a Freo team missing their midfield that is a borderline finals side to begin with.

We also had the most changes of a team ever (12) before the Freo game, but that doesn’t matter at all, does it? The second half of last year we had a coaching group consisting of Adam Simpson, Adrian Hickmott, Jaymie Graham and Daniel Pratt. Half of them left before the season began (replaced with Matthew Knights and Jarrad Schofield).

The second half of 2021 wasn’t the result of a downward fall, it was the outcome of a stagnation and injury riddled season that permeated the whole club, and we’re now in a worse situation. The issue with your entire viewpoint is you’re assuming the West Coast Eagles football club exists in a vacuum within the AFL, entirely disconnected from a small thing called a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. We had the preseason from hell, and are the worst impacted club in 2022 as a result of COVID, and you still think those factors don’t actually matter?

 

[Superstar swan]

Your signature is awesome and made me crack a smile, well done!

Just a bit of cheek. I can't stand the animosity between supporters. Yea eagles fans boo and it's loud. But good on them. It's their ground , and they have the right to make as much noise as they can. There's no rule against making a ground as hostile as possible for visiting teams. Personally as a swans supporter I love the atmosphere at eagles games and hope it never changes. The game is too sanitised as it is, a bit of raw passion from 60k supporters is greater the game

 

[Dylan82]

When provided opportunity, the forward line actually did their job.

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Problem is, we saw a back-half team against a front-half team and the efficiency of the opposing approach was decisive.

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West Coast managed over 30% more Pressure Acts than Sydney, but the majority of them were in the defensive half and disconnected from the attack. The Swans on the other hand, had almost three-quarters of their pressure acts within their forward half.

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The same discrepancy can be seen when looking at tackles and ground ball gets as well:

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Even when taking the massive disparity of Inside 50s into account, the pressing approach employed by the Swans was far more effective in both creating the opportunity for turnover and then being able to capitalise from it.

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The current approach of the club is so far behind the success curve of the competition that it may as well be playing a different sport.

The Eagles are like medieval knights in armor, stranded upon a battlefield that has been changed by the adoption of ballistics.

Changes in personnel whilst employing the same approach is the equivalent to suiting up different people in chainmail against a battalion of rifles.


The club is 3-11 since the bye last year, and if not for Collingwood lacking a genuine forward last week, this would been 9 losses in succession.

It feels like the current regime has taken this crop as far as they can go. Perhaps it is time for a change.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Is there a reason why Naish still doesn’t have his own number?

It’s been weeks.

 

[Flarn Rarn]

I like this Superstar Swan guy, can we keep him?

 

[southcoast]

Darling copped it the most where I was sitting.

Like from my seat.

It was me.

Was I sitting on your lap, or vice versa?

 

[CM9000]

A lot of people not seeing the big picture here...

Negatives

• After the failed 2019 campaign, Simmo didn't see the need to change the game plan
• After the failure to change the game plan in 2020, the club didn't sack him
• We had a 3 year window 2019-2021 to win another flag. We weren't in the ball park
• We traded in Kelly and coughed up our future. A reasonable gamble at the time but it didn't work

The Reality

• The negatives are done and dusted. Nothing we can do about it
• Whether we changed game plans or not, we were always heading for a rebuild in 2022/2023

The positives

• There is unlikely to be a prolonged 5-6 seasons of being in denial that a rebuild is needed (many clubs do this)
• We won a flag. Many teams get to the premiership window and don't win one (St Kilda, Giants, Freo etc)
• We're probably going to get a top 4 pick. If we can nab a Bont, Dusty, Danger type player, we're in business

People are losing their sh!t over 1 game of footy. Where did you all think this was heading over the last two seasons?

Well this is all an abject misreading. Did you only start following West Coast in 2020?

Find me a single article claiming Simmo should’ve been sacked in 2019.

 

[KERRPOW]

I agree it was embarrassing and atrocious, but those 2 players wouldn't have made any difference IMO to the result and margin.

Your correct we still would have got spanked but Whats pissed so many of us off is that the messaging to our younger players is it doesnt matter if you perform well, once the stars are even half fit you will make way for them.

This club is about past reputation not actual performance.

 

[RUNVS]

I like this Superstar Swan guy, can we keep him?

You can but we want Scotland and a future 3rd rounder.

 

[southcoast]

Can’t read article but headline is telling.

 

[Scotland]

We also had the most changes of a team ever (12) before the Freo game, but that doesn’t matter at all, does it? The second half of last year we had a coaching group consisting of Adam Simpson, Adrian Hickmott, Jaymie Graham and Daniel Pratt. Half of them left before the season began (replaced with Matthew Knights and Jarrad Schofield).

The second half of 2021 wasn’t the result of a downward fall, it was the outcome of a stagnation and injury riddled season that permeated the whole club, and we’re now in a worse situation. The issue with your entire viewpoint is you’re assuming the West Coast Eagles football club exists in a vacuum within the AFL, entirely disconnected from a small thing called a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. We had the preseason from hell, and are the worst impacted club in 2022 as a result of COVID, and you still think those factors don’t actually matter?

Did I say those factors 'don't matter'?

WC exist in a vacuum? WTF are you on about? Assistant coaches move clubs every year. David Hale left Freo. Fyfe hasn't played all year. Their derby team was also missing Mundy, Serong, Darcy etc. and we weren't even competitive.

We've been declining since 2018 and now have a team where most of our better players are 30+. It's footy.

 

[Scotland]

You can but we want Scotland and a future 3rd rounder.

I'm only willing to move to GWS. Restraint of trade!

 

[southjoy]

Oh the Melts.

The kids who missed this game were Hough and Xon. Xon in particular has his best game for the club. These two guys not playing made ZERO difference. WCE played Rotham over Hough because they needed H Edwards and basically Rotham was backup for HEdwards ( who played extremely poorly) as did Rotham.
The only player coming in that I feel could of played WAFL was Cripps. So I personally would of liked to of seen Waterman or Xon play instead.

So two young players not playing made in my opinion no difference. NOT having Nic and Gov made a massive difference (MASSIVE).

But ultimately as another poster has already stated. Our game plan for ball movement especially into the Forward line is non existent.
We work so hard to chip the ball to 40 to 60m out from our goals and then its STAGNANT. Players must lead, leads can be ignored but makes gaps elsewhere. The problem is we are so predictable that often leads and gaps are not used and the Opposition know this and just camp at the contest with more front and centres than us.
This becomes even worse going into our forward line. We don't lead and turn back and lead again. We're extremely stagnant. MOVEMENT creates chaos. And JK is an excellent lead up mark yet we continue to bomb it in and expect an older player to leap and crash ( he can't do that anymore). Can you imagine Sydney delivering the ball to Buddy like that. He wouldn"t of scored 700 goals let alone a 1000. Last week I saw younger non KPP players being honoured in the 50 m arc.

Get rid of Gov Nic JK JD Shuey Hurn and Gaff oh my lord. Oh and while I'm at it. I would of loved to of got two basically number 1's (Mills and Heeney) whilst still being a top ten team ...freaking ridiculous Academy!

We do seriously need to build on speed and winning ball capabilities...that will take years. Positivee of that is that I too will be looking for a seat upgrade

 

[Astro7]

We’d be f*cked in the arse harder...

 

[Chump Change]

Well this is all an abject misreading. Did you only start following West Coast in 2020?

Find me a single article claiming Simmo should’ve been sacked in 2019.

On the subject of "abject misreadings", I never said there were "articles" about it. All I said was, "he should have change the game style, but didn't", and "they should have sacked him, but didn't". I never said they were thinking about it, or any one wrote about it....

As for you patronising comment: since 1987.

You need to back the duck off.

 

[Astro7]

Good to see people on here are wanting a rebuild after the preseason from hell. There are definitely no extenuating circumstances that might cause a result like this to happen.

Because OF COURSE being the worst impacted team in 2022 by COVID doesn’t matter, and the stupendous amount of injuries during the preseason to our most important players doesn’t matter, and the complete lack of conditioning prior to this match shouldn’t have had an impact.

This is the unfortunate reality, that we’re a hundred miles behind every other team simply through injury and COVID. Second half of 2021 aside, this is the reality of the situation - the assumption is being made that the 2 hours on the weekend that feature these players is enough to ascertain the full picture, but there’s 6 months of time that have lead to this point, and its been absolutely f’ed.

Finally, something closer to reality, not just entrenched perceived notions and tropes.

 

[ziad]

The excuse merchants raise some factual stuff and reasons for our performance. But none address the fact that without Kelly we would probably not have won a game in 2021 after the bye, and thankfully the pies kicked themselves out of this seasons only win. We have had no forward pressure for 2 years and key forwars taht stand still waiting for some kind defender to leave them alone. We also kick in generalplay to stationary players, have no real run, dont attack the oposition with the ball and the majority of our emerging players are not the quality that gets you into the top 8. We also now have a weak ruck division.

This isnt a recent occurrence. We are as pathetic as in 2020 and 21. Just a few diffent faces and fresh excuses.

The contrast with Sydney should shine a light on the fact that we recrute and develop very poorly. We keep many players on the list for 3-6 years who are duds, in that they will never lift us to any success. This is simply reinforcing failure.

 

[Ishmael_]

2 more things about the Swans:

Their disposal was shithouse and a good team will exploit that, but who cares when you can kick into space with full trust that your teammate will outrun an unfit Eagles pleb and get onto it first every time.

Their defence was magnificent at spoiling everything coming at them, with full trust that a Swans teammate would win the ground ball and rebound immediately. Was like clockwork, all game.

100%, it was so strange how often Sydney would misskick and yet suffer zero consequences.

I genuinely don't think I've seen a team that feckless at punishing opposition errors, maybe early days GC/GWS. We were always a yard behind, out of position and nowhere near impacting the contest. On the odd occasion when we were, we would complete the turnover only to immediately give it back.

 

[Coasters7]

The excuse merchants raise some factual stuff and reasons for our performance. But none address the fact that without Kelly we would probably not have won a game in 2021 after the bye, and thankfully the pies kicked themselves out of this seasons only win. We have had no forward pressure for 2 years and key forwars taht stand still waiting for some kind defender to leave them alone. We also kick in generalplay to stationary players, have no real run, dont attack the oposition with the ball and the majority of our emerging players are not the quality that gets you into the top 8. We also now have a weak ruck division.

This isnt a recent occurrence.

But who or what is the problem then? Kelly is harshly judged by a lot around here, he’s had a pretty shit run since he arrived here. Yeo and Shuey will never be accused of lacking effort and our small forwards are some of our best players.

There’s a lot of teams out there with worse players than us yet we look like by far the worst side in the comp. The “weak, lazy” (apparently) midfielders are all out of the side at the moment so where are the issues?

Our best just haven’t had enough games together over the past 2 years. This year has buried us deeper with the lack of fitness and covid piling on top. We’re a system based side and have been for years so to try and implement said system without 50% of the pieces (and rotating a new one every week) is nearly impossible. We can’t just call upon the next soldier to fill the gap in the rolling maul like the Swans would.

Whether it’s the smartest idea to live and die by a gameplan built specifically around your best players, who knows. But it means that when they’re all playing we look like the best team in the comp, and when they aren’t vice versa.

I challenge Melbourne to lose Petracca and Oliver for 2 years straight along with intermittent changes to other players week after week and see how slick their ball movement looks and how well their pressure/numbers at stoppage game works.

I know it’s a different sport but the same principle applies. Golden State lost Klay Thompson for 2 years and Curry was in and out of the side. You can’t have a gameplan designed around chucking up 3s when they’re both missing for extended periods, lo and behold, they went crashing down the standings until they sorted their shit out and gained their players back

 

[Rowan18]

But who or what is the problem then? Kelly is harshly judged by a lot around here, he’s had a pretty shit run since he arrived here. Yeo and Shuey will never be accused of lacking effort and our small forwards are some of our best players.

There’s a lot of teams out there with worse players than us yet we look like by far the worst side in the comp. The “weak, lazy” (apparently) midfielders are all out of the side at the moment so where are the issues?

Our best just haven’t had enough games together over the past 2 years. This year has buried us deeper with the lack of fitness and covid piling on top. We’re a system based side and have been for years so to try and implement said system without 50% of the pieces (and rotating a new one every week) is nearly impossible. We can’t just call upon the next soldier to fill the gap in the rolling maul like the Swans would.

Whether it’s the smartest idea to live and die by a gameplan built specifically around your best players, who knows. But it means that when they’re all playing we look like the best team in the comp, and when they aren’t vice versa.

I challenge Melbourne to lose Petracca and Oliver for 2 years straight along with intermittent changes to other players week after week and see how slick their ball movement looks and how well their pressure/numbers at stoppage game works.

I know it’s a different sport but the same principle applies. Golden State lost Klay Thompson for 2 years and Curry was in and out of the side. You can’t have a gameplan designed around chucking up 3s when they’re both missing for extended periods, lo and behold, they went crashing down the standings until they sorted their shit out and gained their players back

Good point. Melbourne did lose a lot of players in 2019 and 2020 and finished second last and 9th.

Their is an argument to say our system needs a change but as Simmo keeps saying, he hasn't been able to demonstrate the change due to the number of players that are out.

I think they need to strip it back. Players should not come into the team until fully fit (which probably means a couple of WAFL games for conditioning). Let's stop kidding ourselves and rushing our senior mids back in. Now is the time to try and get them fit and hopefully we might see some games in the second half of the year where our first choice midfield is fit and firing.

This will give the young guys more games while the senior players and coming back from injury.

Yes, we'll lose more games, but I'd rather see us working to get the players back into shape than getting pumped by 10 goals and achieving nothing.