Review Good/Bad vs St Kilda, R9 2023

[BRL121]

Dawson was a bit grumpy yesterday, first time I’ve seen him that animated since sinking port after the siren.

His kicking was poor yesterday. It was almost as if there was something wrong with the ball, but Tex put paid to that notion.

 

[FR0GGY]

Jordan once again reaffirmed that it was his idea to go into the midfield.

 

[FR0GGY]

His kicking was poor yesterday. It was almost as if there was something wrong with the ball, but Tex put paid to that notion.

I didn’t notice it as much after the first qtr but every kick was a floater at the start from him.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Anyone else notice Dawson saying he did less work with the mids this preseason than he did last year? That certainly doesn't back up the arguments made by some people around here that Dawson to the midfield was the plan all along.

 

[Maddogmetro]

ben Keays 9 games for just 5 goals.. 3 of them in the carlton game. Take that carlton game out and he’s kicked just two goals in 8 games as mostly a small forward. Two.

One of them he pinched off Pedlar yesterday.

L. Murphy 8 games for just 2 goals.

I understand the concept that we have these two in the side to provide this mystical “forward pressure” beast and push into the midfield when required but..

Just 7 measly goals from 17 games all up between them?.. thats a very fxxkn low return for 70/30 forward/mids..

Surely we can find a couple of small forward players that can provide the same defensive pressure and kick, at the very least, a goal or maybe two a game.

'Take this stat, and now take out a game which I don't like because it is against my argument, and look how bad it looks!'

 

[FR0GGY]

Anyone else notice Dawson saying he did less work with the mids this preseason than he did last year? That certainly doesn't back up the arguments made by some people around here that Dawson to the midfield was the plan all along.

Yep as I said above he also reaffirmed it was his idea.

 

[MRB37]

 

[Danger in Texas]

A

IMO “Goal assists” is another one of those clear as mud bullshit stats like “disposal efficiency” that are really fxxkn dodgy to be hanging your hat on when discussing a players effectiveness in a game..

Its another “how the fxxk do they fairly and equally attribute that stat to a player”

But.. All right.. i’ll go with it and adjust my comment to say..

Surely we can find another couple of small forwards that provide forward pressure AND get involved in goal assists.. that also kick atleast 1 goal a game…

Its not like being involved in a goal assist is somehow an un-achievable mean feat for your average small forward.

If we hadve squeezed just 1 goal a game out of both these lads then we probably wouldve won the pies game for a start.. and been much closer in a couple of others..

Both of them scored 0.0 in that pies game..

Thats two of your forwards not even bothering the scoreboard attendant.

Surely we can dump one of these two and find a player to replace them that can apply pressure, gets involved in general play for score assists and, most importantly, consistently hits the scoreboard..

It can be the difference vetween a win or a close loss.

I agree that you should always look to upgrade on what you have if the opportunity arises

But a forward that can do all of the above things, plus work hard up and down the ground to get involved in link play, is extremely hard to find. The player you’re essentially describing is Rankine. Other than McAdam (who’s a different type of forward anyway), there’s no one currently on our list (not presently in our 22) that’s a better all-round forward than Murphy and Keays

Maybe if you want to chase Brad Close from Geelong, who’s OOC at year’s end? But even then, our forward line is humming pretty nicely right now, our close losses were due to poor conversion from our usually more reliable goal kickers more than anything else

 

[Bearded Clam]

'Take this stat, and now take out a game which I don't like because it is against my argument, and look how bad it looks!'

Well go on then..

Explain how the “goal assist“ stat is adjudicated..

If player 1 gets the ball on the wing takes three bounces, dodges in and out of traffic, kicks brilliantly to player 2 who marks and gets a simple handball off to player 3 who’s running past and who goes on to goal..

Who gets a “goal assist” added to their stats sheet?..

Both player 1 and 2?..

Does player 1 get a better stat given the fact they made most of the play and did the mercurial?.. does he even get a “goal assist” stat as he wasnt the last bloke to hand off to the goal kicker?

And.. Isnt this all just part of general play?..

If a team takes a kick in after an opposition behind and run it all the way to the other end for a goal and 8 of their players get a involved in the play and get a kick, tap or handball off and no opponents even touch it… do they all get a stat for assisting in the resulting goal?.. even the bloke who took the kick in?

Or is it just the last guy that hands off to the eventual goal kicker that gets the stat?.. if so, why?, if its every player then.. fxxk me its really just a normal bloody possesion isnt it?.

The whole concept of the game is to possess the ball, get it forward and hope the last bloke at the end of the line kicks a goal. Why complicate it with bullshit stats like goal assists!

IMO.. Its just another one of those weird and pointless stats who’s adjudication is as clear as mud..

 

[rabidcrow]

I noticed our defenders were quite good one-on-one. I rarely saw them get beaten.

I thought our defence was outstanding on the weekend. Their positioning was brilliant for the aerial contests and hardly got beaten at all

When the Saints did get a run of goals in the second quarter it was from chaos football - soccering, slapping the ball forward and it fell their way. When they tried to bring it in with method we cleaned them up consistently


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[arrowman]

Explain how the “goal assist“ stat is adjudicated..

If player 1 gets the ball on the wing takes three bounces, dodges in and out of traffic, kicks brilliantly to player 2 who marks and gets a simple handball off to player 3 who’s running past and who goes on to goal..

Who gets a “goal assist” added to their stats sheet?..

Both player 1 and 2?..

Player 2 gets the "goal assist". Player 1 gets a "score involvement" (and I think Player 2 might, as well).

You are right that "score involvement" is a pretty dodgy stat - in some cases it is well-earned, e.g. Player 1 in your example, in others not so much.

But IMO Goal Assist (or Score Assist) do have some meaning. That last ball movement isn't always as "simple".

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Player 2 gets the "goal assist". Player 1 gets a "score involvement" (and I think Player 2 might, as well).

You are right that "score involvement" is a pretty dodgy stat - in some cases it is well-earned, e.g. Player 1 in your example, in others not so much.

But IMO Goal Assist (or Score Assist) do have some meaning. That last ball movement isn't always as "simple".

Correct ....goes back to a scoring chain, initiated by player 1

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If one player has two possessions in a scoring chain do they get two score involvements?

 

[George Kramer]

Anyone else notice Dawson saying he did less work with the mids this preseason than he did last year? That certainly doesn't back up the arguments made by some people around here that Dawson to the midfield was the plan all along.

Jordan once again reaffirmed that it was his idea to go into the midfield.

Well well well.

Plenty of discussion saying it was planned by a few Nicks cheerleaders, I wonder if they might change their view now and acknowledge they were wrong again

 

[feenix67]

Well go on then..

Explain how the “goal assist“ stat is adjudicated..

If player 1 gets the ball on the wing takes three bounces, dodges in and out of traffic, kicks brilliantly to player 2 who marks and gets a simple handball off to player 3 who’s running past and who goes on to goal..

Who gets a “goal assist” added to their stats sheet?..

Both player 1 and 2?..

Does player 1 get a better stat given the fact they made most of the play and did the mercurial?.. does he even get a “goal assist” stat as he wasnt the last bloke to hand off to the goal kicker?

And.. Isnt this all just part of general play?..

If a team takes a kick in after an opposition behind and run it all the way to the other end for a goal and 8 of their players get a involved in the play and get a kick, tap or handball off and no opponents even touch it… do they all get a stat for assisting in the resulting goal?.. even the bloke who took the kick in?

Or is it just the last guy that hands off to the eventual goal kicker that gets the stat?.. if so, why?, if its every player then.. fxxk me its really just a normal bloody possesion isnt it?.

The whole concept of the game is to possess the ball, get it forward and hope the last bloke at the end of the line kicks a goal. Why complicate it with bullshit stats like goal assists!

IMO.. Its just another one of those weird and pointless stats who’s adjudication is as clear as mud..

You know the difference between a goal assist and a score involvement right? One is the disposal immediately prior to the goal, the other is any disposal in an unbroken set of disposals that results in a score.

 

[arrowman]

If one player has two possessions in a scoring chain do they get two score involvements?

No.

Glossary – AFL – Champion Data

www.championdata.com

Score Involvement: Number of scoring chains where a player was involved with either a disposal, hitout-to-advantage, kick-in or knock-on. If a player has two disposals in the same scoring chain, he is credited with one score involvement.

 

[CrowBloke]

How was the spoil on Darcy Fogarty yesterday.
It was just amusing after the Van Rooyen incident how everyone brought up Fogarty then he cops the same thing this week.
Fogarty was not injured but clearly got a fist to the face and not even a free kick.

Crappest of the crappy Umpiring free-kick-not-paid on the weekend.
The "explanation" (excuse) would be that he had his eye on the ball and spoiled it.

The forerarm/elbow to Fogarty's head was incidental. Momentum.
Remember the McAdam "could-have-caused-injury" excuse the MRO supplied to rub him out for 3?

Fogarty's noggin is "as hard as a cat's head" (Taylor Walker, a while ago).
Luckily.
It would have put a softer-headed player in Hospital.
Umpires/MRO: Nothing to see here; play on.

 

[Cleric]

ben Keays 9 games for just 5 goals.. 3 of them in the carlton game. Take that carlton game out and he’s kicked just two goals in 8 games as mostly a small forward. Two.

One of them he pinched off Pedlar yesterday.

L. Murphy 8 games for just 2 goals.

I understand the concept that we have these two in the side to provide this mystical “forward pressure” beast and push into the midfield when required but..

Just 7 measly goals from 17 games all up between them?.. thats a very fxxkn low return for 70/30 forward/mids..

Surely we can find a couple of small forward players that can provide the same defensive pressure and kick, at the very least, a goal or maybe two a game.

What Keays has shown is that he can kick bunches of goals when he has been put in the forward line. He isn't the long term answer for that position. I hope that Cook can develop into that player for us. He has ridiculous skills, and he has alot of developing ahead of him.
Luke Pedler was never a forward. He was a midfielder as a Jr, but he showed as a Jr that he could also kick multiple goals from the midfield.
We have all seen Murphy for years now. He isn't going to be a goal scoring small forward. He puts pressure on and does the 1%ers. That's his gig. Now in fear of upsetting Bicks, he is a position we can Improve upon. If we can score a player like Kossi Pickett who does all the pressure acts that Murphy does, but is also capable of hitting the scoreboard, then we get even stronger.
If we look at the players that we have brought in I see this.
Pedler - A midfielder who can kick multiple goals in a game.
Cook - Capable of scoring multiple goals a game.
Jones - He is capable of kicking goals consistently off a wing.
Schoenberg- Has shown he can kick multiple goals in a game.
Rochelle, Soligo and Rankine. All of these guys can go in the midfield and also go forward and kick bunches of goals.
Dawson can kick goals from the midfield as well.
Then in the magoos, we have Dowling, another midfielder who can kick bunches of goals in a game.
Kicking goals is a genetic talent. There are lots of mids who don't kick goals. Brad and Matt Crouch for instance rarely kick goals let alone multiple goals in a game. Look at Murphy, he just doesn't know how to kick goals consistently.
We have gone for mids who can kick goals, which makes it harder to defend against, and the spread for goal kickers on the scoresheet is long.

 

[CrowBloke]

ben Keays 9 games for just 5 goals.. 3 of them in the carlton game. Take that carlton game out and he’s kicked just two goals in 8 games as mostly a small forward. Two.

etc etc ...

I haven't watched the full replay but viewed the AFC highlights a few times, paying particular attention to Walker/Pedlar and Keays, thinking afterwards how hard it would be for you to fault Keays' game.

Ah, but you found a way!

I counted three vital linking passages of play that led to goals via Keays delivering I50. One in particular he skitched hard, gut-run, to take possession then handballed (to Fogarty), goal.
Look at his speed and effort, halfway through the last, Keays on the edge of the shadow, from here on:

Looked to me like he was playing a Lynch-like 'connector' role on Sunday and he did it well.

As for the goal "he pinched off Pedlar", seriously?
You're:

What was he supposed to do?
Handball to Pedlar, because it's really Pedlar's goal?
Ask Pedlar for permission?
Stop, and wait for the Umpires to call in favour of the Crows?

C'mon. If he did anything else that didn't result in a goal, you'd be spewing and resorting to your "absolute garbage" attacks, again.

 

[Vader]

What Keays has shown is that he can kick bunches of goals when he has been put in the forward line. He isn't the long term answer for that position. I hope that Cook can develop into that player for us. He has ridiculous skills, and he has alot of developing ahead of him.

The commentators yesterday were joking that Rankine has more chance of kicking a goal from the impossible angle, than Keays does from any angle and any range. The other commentator queried whether that included the goal line. There was no response, though I was mentally saying "yes, including the goal line".

Keays is a bloody awful kick for goal, and that's putting it generously. However, he is a hard nut (and extremely hard worker), who contributes massively by setting up other players - hence his top-20 ranking league-wide when it comes to goal assists.

Accept him for what he is - a complete liability when kicking for goal, but otherwise solid contributor to the team & the forward line in general.

 

[Vader]

etc etc ...

I haven't watched the full replay but viewed the AFC highlights a few times, paying particular attention to Walker/Pedlar and Keays, thinking afterwards how hard it would be for you to fault Keays' game.

Ah, but you found a way!

I counted three vital linking passages of play that led to goals via Keays delivering I50. One in particular he skitched hard, gut-run, to take possession then handballed (to Fogarty), goal.
Look at his speed and effort, halfway through the last, Keays on the edge of the shadow, from here on:
View attachment 1688348
Looked to me like he was playing a Lynch-like 'connector' role on Sunday and he did it well.

Describing him as the new Tom Lynch "connector" makes a great deal of sense!

 

[VictorianCrow85]

Both are equal top for goal assists though.

Amazing people don't want them taking shots for goal because they aren't the best at it then complain they don't kick goals whilst creating the most goal assists in the side. You can't make this shit up.

 

[CrowBloke]

Describing him as the new Tom Lynch "connector" makes a great deal of sense!

I'm not sure if you are serious.
If so, it looked like he was that 'connector' vs Saints.
He delivered long I50 by foot a couple of times for goals.

He had a different role altogether vs. Pies.

I'm starting to think that Nicks is giving him different jobs to do (he said in a presser that Keays likes to be given a specific task) and Keays is not "mostly a small forward" as Bearded Clam claimed.

 

[Brasher]

Keays is better than average with the stuff that is unfashionable, but not so good at the fashionable stuff. Guys like him are always the ones forced out of the bottom of the list. But they are invaluable to a team's profile....the Pies have half a dozen of them and they are going OK.

 

[Crow-eater]

8 Brodie Smith

33

Brodie Smith

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

500.1

5star

D

17.1

4star

K

12.6

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

438.9

5star

D

17.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.6

5star

(ADEL)
8 Taylor Walker

13

Taylor Walker

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.7

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

(ADEL)
5 Wayne Milera

30

Wayne Milera

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

265.3

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.0

2star

MG

282.0

4star

D

11.4

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.4

4star

MG

182.0

3star

(ADEL)
5 Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

(ADEL)
2 Luke Pedlar (ADEL)
1 Chayce Jones

1

Chayce Jones

Age

24

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.6

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.9

4star

MG

178.6

3star

D

8.9

2star

K

4.9

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.6

3star

MG

143.3

3star

D

9.4

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

175.0

3star

(ADEL)
1 Izak Rankine

23

Izak Rankine

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

5star

G

2.0

5star

(ADEL)

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