Review Good/Bad vs St Kilda, R9 2023

[Danger in Texas]

8 Brodie Smith (ADEL)
8 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
5 Wayne Milera (ADEL)
5 Jordan Dawson (ADEL)
2 Luke Pedlar (ADEL)
1 Chayce Jones (ADEL)
1 Izak Rankine (ADEL)

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

5 - Smith/Milera
4 - Walker/Walker
3 - Dawson/Smith
2 - Pedlar/Dawson
1 - Jones/Rankine

Could switch Smith/Walker and Milera/Dawson

 

[cmndstab]

5 - Smith/Milera
4 - Walker/Walker
3 - Dawson/Smith
2 - Pedlar/Dawson
1 - Jones/Rankine

Could switch Smith/Walker and Milera/Dawson

Fascinating that Milera (or Dawson, I guess) could be considered BOG by one coach and not even listed by the other.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Amazing people don't want them taking shots for goal because they aren't the best at it then complain they don't kick goals whilst creating the most goal assists in the side. You can't make this s**t up.

I just dont understand this attitude that we cant have every one of our forwards kicking goals though..

Its almost like we have to accept mediocrity.. and then when someone questions it a whole heap of strawmen arguments are launched against them..

The comment about Keays not talking shots was made by the games commentators.

Why the hell can we not get one or two small forwards that do exactly what keays and murph do BUT also at the same time kick more than 1 goal every three or four games?..

Its bewildering, and frankly a little strange, that some in here simply accept this. Sort of a “we cant have everyone being good.. every team needs a couple of spuds” attitude.

Why?..

The shit Murphy and Keays do.. gut running, applying tackling pressure and trying hard is the easier shit to teach.. the composure, the xfactor, the goal sense, the silky skills.. thats the shit that isnt easily taugh because it normally always just comes naturally.

if we have some other options like cook, nank, newchurch, dowling, taylor (when he returns from injury) starting to show something do we leave them in the sanfl because we need to keep a couple of “battlers” in the 22?

Dont accept mediocrity.. Blood another one of our talented and promising youth in that forward line thats already packed to the rafters with experience I say.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[CrowBloke]

Dani Rojas Dani Rojas Dani Dani Dani Rojas

I'd like to see/hear an AO Crows crowd take up this next time he kicks 5:
Taylor Walker, Taylor Walker, Taylor Taylor Taylor Walker!

 

[NSolis]

IMO “Goal assists” is another one of those clear as mud bullshit stats like “disposal efficiency” that are really fxxkn dodgy to be hanging your hat on when discussing a players effectiveness in a game..

Its another “how the fxxk do they fairly and equally attribute that stat to a player”

But.. All right.. i’ll go with it and adjust my comment to say..

Surely we can find another couple of small forwards that provide forward pressure AND get involved in goal assists.. that also kick atleast 1 goal a game…

Its not like being involved in a goal assist is somehow an un-achievable mean feat for your average small forward.

If we hadve squeezed just 1 goal a game out of both these lads then we probably wouldve won the pies game for a start.. and been much closer in a couple of others..

Both of them scored 0.0 in that pies game..

Thats two of your forwards not even bothering the scoreboard attendant.

Surely we can dump one of these two and find a player to replace them that can apply pressure, gets involved in general play for score assists and, most importantly, consistently hits the scoreboard..

It can be the difference vetween a win or a close loss.

Goal assists is pretty clear, but honestly this doesn't have to be an academic exercise. Look at the goals that Keays and Murphy were involved in yesterday and judge for yourself how useful their contributions were.

Goal 1: Murphy handballs over the top to Rankine. Goal assist Murphy
Goal 3: Keays with a long kick inside 50 to Walker, who marks and goals. Goal assist Keays
Goal 4: This one is a bit more borderline, Keays wins the loose ball and gets tackled, does enough with the 'handball' to not get pinned HTB, Walker picks up and goals. This would go to Keays as a GA because he got the handball off but it's nothing special. Goal assist Keays
Goal 9: Keays with a long kick inside 50 to Fogarty, who marks and goals. Goal assist Keays
Goal 13: Keays goals after Pedlar drops the ball in the goalsquare.
Goal 14: Murphy gets a free for a high tackle, kicks the goal.
Goal 15: This one is ambiguous, Keays kicks long inside 50 to a pack, Walker grabs it off hands and kicks the goal. Thilthorpe got the last touch off the pack so assume Keays wouldn't get a goal assist here.
Goal 19: Keays grabs the loose ball, runs and handballs to Fogarty inside 50, who goals. Goal assist Keays

I count that as four goal assists for Keays, one for Murphy, and obviously one goal each, which is exactly what the stat line says.

Leaving all that aside, assessing someone like Murphy who plays a lot through the midfield and had 22 touches and 8 tackles like he's some Steven Milne style goalsneak is just totally wrong.

 

[VictorianCrow85]

I just dont understand this attitude that we cant have every one of our forwards kicking goals though..

Its almost like we have to accept mediocrity.. and then when someone questions it a whole heap of strawmen arguments are launched against them..

The comment about Keays not talking shots was made by the games commentators.

Why the hell can we not get one or two small forwards that do exactly what keays and murph do BUT also at the same time kick more than 1 goal every three or four games?..

Its bewildering, and frankly a little strange, that some in here simply accept this. Sort of a “we cant have everyone being good.. every team needs a couple of spuds” attitude.

Why?..

The s**t Murphy and Keays do.. gut running, applying tackling pressure and trying hard is the easier s**t to teach.. the composure, the xfactor, the goal sense, the silky skills.. thats the s**t that isnt easily taugh because it normally always just comes naturally.

if we have some other options like cook, nank, newchurch, dowling, taylor (when he returns from injury) starting to show something do we leave them in the sanfl because we need to keep a couple of “battlers” in the 22?

Dont accept mediocrity.. Blood another one of our talented and promising youth in that forward line thats already packed to the rafters with experience I say.

I'm all for Keays or Murphy to be dropped if their form warrants. Murphy has been very good most of the year, Keays yesterday was far better than I gave him credit for. I'm watching the replay right now and he was actually very good. That kind of manic intensity he brought yesterday is very important for a side, not all our players can do it but it resulted in turn overs & he directly saved us a goal in the 3rd quarter with his defensive running.

 

[davos44]

Good:
Mileras best game but still lacks accuracy by hand and foot
Pedlar is starting to emerge, he just has something, 3 centre clearances from limited attendance
Butts best game, looks healthy again and loves to punch the footy. A defenders defender.
We dont miss Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

, he had 30 touches but did 0 damage.

Bad:
Fog is really struggling; he seems to be hell bent on wrestling opponents. He is way better working up and back but perhaps he lost a bit of zing with his knee problem?
Rachele gets stepped a lot, everyone just waltzes by and he just goes "ah fudge it, I will get them on the rebound"
You have to be ripping up the SANFL to get a gig in our side, kinda wish for some minor injuries just to rotate some players like Worrell and Cook..... and Crouch and.... Hately and.... Himmelberg and where was Gollant? ..... yeah. No injuries please.


Ugly:
Nothing, beautiful day, no breeze, accurate goalkicking, beating a good* side by 9 goals.



*sort of. They are pretty good at Marvel.

 

[Carmo]

Hollands again did little yesterday in the VFL, your infatuation with Elijah needs to be tempered until he actually plays the footy befitting of your infatuation...and yes I did watch most of that game yesterday. There is a reason Elijah isn't playing AFL....form.

Shhh, he's keeping the price we have to pay down. Don't complain.

 

[kirky]

Nathan Buckley was On the Couch last Monday and said Walker/Rankine would kick 8 goals between them - he wasn’t far off, they kicked 7.

 

[VictorianCrow85]

Nathan Buckley was On the Couch last Monday and said Walker/Rankine would kick 8 goals between them - he wasn’t far off, they kicked 7.

Hes had a couple good calls, his call about us vs Carlton earlier in the year was pretty bang on the money too when everyone was all about Carlton being stingey defence too.

 

[Maddogmetro]

Well go on then..

Explain how the “goal assist“ stat is adjudicated..

If player 1 gets the ball on the wing takes three bounces, dodges in and out of traffic, kicks brilliantly to player 2 who marks and gets a simple handball off to player 3 who’s running past and who goes on to goal..

Who gets a “goal assist” added to their stats sheet?..

Both player 1 and 2?..

Does player 1 get a better stat given the fact they made most of the play and did the mercurial?.. does he even get a “goal assist” stat as he wasnt the last bloke to hand off to the goal kicker?

And.. Isnt this all just part of general play?..

If a team takes a kick in after an opposition behind and run it all the way to the other end for a goal and 8 of their players get a involved in the play and get a kick, tap or handball off and no opponents even touch it… do they all get a stat for assisting in the resulting goal?.. even the bloke who took the kick in?

Or is it just the last guy that hands off to the eventual goal kicker that gets the stat?.. if so, why?, if its every player then.. fxxk me its really just a normal bloody possesion isnt it?.

The whole concept of the game is to possess the ball, get it forward and hope the last bloke at the end of the line kicks a goal. Why complicate it with bullshit stats like goal assists!

IMO.. Its just another one of those weird and pointless stats who’s adjudication is as clear as mud..

You have completely missed the point of my comment. My comment had nothing to do with goal assists, and it is perplexing that you decided it did.

Your comment said that Keays' total goals vs games was bad (but that, for some arbitrary reason, we should ignore the game where he kicked 3 goals). That is called cherrypicking, and you seem to do that very often.

 

[CrowBloke]

How to downgrade "Goal Assists" as a useful statistic?
Call it a:

clear as mud bullshit stat ...

... because if Ben Keays can do it, it mustn't be important/valuable, because Ben Keays is crap.

A reminder: I am not a blind Keays fan (he still has no R foot. His Energiser-Bunny frantic Fast-Forward persona shows up as a lack of composure sometimes, although tbf he did stop and look a few more times on Sunday and not just kick blindly). I do defend Keays when he's played well and gets sledged.

When he has a bad game I acknowledge it, but BC looks for anything he can to bag Keays for, eg
if Keays had only kicked one measly goal vs the Pies ...

If we hadve squeezed just 1 goal a game out of both these lads then we probably wouldve won the pies game for a start..

but no mention of the several players who did have easy set shots @ goal and missed.
No, it was Keays' fault. Or the other 'lad'. Mostly Keays.

There was a small 'adjustment':

Surely we can find another couple of small forwards that provide forward pressure AND get involved in goal assists.. that also kick atleast 1 goal a game…

but it overlooks one thing --- the Crows had 12 goalkickers on Sunday.
Twelve.
The Crows do not need 'another couple of small forwards ... etc'. If anything, they need more two-way, hard-gut-running players like Keays, especially a big-bodied mid.

 

[Bearded Clam]

You have completely missed the point of my comment. My comment had nothing to do with goal assists, and it is perplexing that you decided it did.

Your comment said that Keays' total goals vs games was bad (but that, for some arbitrary reason, we should ignore the game where he kicked 3 goals). That is called cherrypicking, and you seem to do that very often.

Geeez.. thats some real fine goal post shifting right there..

Your comment in your own exact words was.

“Take this stat, and now take out a game which I don't like because it is against my argument, and look how bad it looks!”

Thats it.

In response to my comment about the “goal assist” stat being more meaningless bullshit..

How the fxxk else are we meant to read your comment?.. unless you wrote the rest of it in invisible text.

 

[Bearded Clam]

How to downgrade "Goal Assists" as a useful statistic?
Call it a:

... because if Ben Keays can do it, it mustn't be important/valuable, because Ben Keays is crap.

A reminder: I am not a blind Keays fan (he still has no R foot. His Energiser-Bunny frantic Fast-Forward persona shows up as a lack of composure sometimes, although tbf he did stop and look a few more times on Sunday and not just kick blindly). I do defend Keays when he's played well and gets sledged.

When he has a bad game I acknowledge it, but BC looks for anything he can to bag Keays for, eg
if Keays had only kicked one measly goal vs the Pies ...

but no mention of the several players who did have easy set shots @ goal and missed.
No, it was Keays' fault. Or the other 'lad'. Mostly Keays.

There was a small 'adjustment':

but it overlooks one thing --- the Crows had 12 goalkickers on Sunday.
Twelve.
The Crows do not need 'another couple of small forwards ... etc'. If anything, they need more two-way, hard-gut-running players like Keays, especially a big-bodied mid.

You know what’s better than having twelve goal kickers..

Thirteen

 

[CrowBloke]

Player 2 gets the "goal assist". Player 1 gets a "score involvement" (and I think Player 2 might, as well).

You are right that "score involvement" is a pretty dodgy stat - in some cases it is well-earned, e.g. Player 1 in your example, in others not so much.

But IMO Goal Assist (or Score Assist) do have some meaning. That last ball movement isn't always as "simple".

Start of second quarter, E wing:
Tex hips his opponent out of the way to make a little space. That bloke tries to stop the sharp Milera handball over the top to Tex (who is now alone) and feeds off a good handball to the strong-running Jones for what I would call a lovely, fluent goal.
Both Milera/Tex handballs are score involvements, I would say, but the Tex handball is a GA.

Yes, they are 'normal' plays in footy but still have to be well-executed for the goal.
Kudos especially to Jones for making that good run and the polished finish.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[thebirdman 24]

I really liked Jones' game.

21 diposals, 1 goal, and ran hard up and back the wing all day. Dropped back a few times for a relieving mark or a handball outlet.

He has gone from barely cracking 10 disposals to being a really solid contributor, averaging just under 20 a game.

He takes the first option and generally uses the ball well, and we all know how tough and strong he is.

He has really turned things around.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BunjiMac]

I have heard a few mentions of our outside run being a positive, but I disagree and feel it's been a weakness all year and still was in that game.

I think we did well with moving the ball quickly, especially to the outside, but the actual run and carry was still not there.

I don't remember that many running bounces are long runs at all. I remember Jones and Hinge receiving and running out of the backlines through the middle, but on the whole not alot of run.

I think that's an element we could still work on.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I really liked Jones' game.

21 diposals, 1 goal, and ran hard up and back the wing all day. Dropped back a few times for a relieving mark or a handball outlet.

He has gone from barely cracking 10 disposals to being a really solid contributor, averaging just under 20 a game.

He takes the first option and generally uses the ball well, and we all know how tough and strong he is.

He has really turned things around.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

It’s like he’s become a completely different player this year, it’s unbelievable

Him and Sholl doing well on each wing has started to make that 2018 draft at least look decent haha

 

[dogs105]

I'd like to see/hear an AO Crows crowd take up this next time he kicks 5:
Taylor Walker, Taylor Walker, Taylor Taylor Taylor Walker!

I'd like to see Taylor Walker take it up!

 

[Eagleboy2011]

8 Brodie Smith (ADEL)
8 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
5 Wayne Milera (ADEL)
5 Jordan Dawson (ADEL)
2 Luke Pedlar (ADEL)
1 Chayce Jones (ADEL)
1 Izak Rankine (ADEL)

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

The only one I would not have had on that list is Rankine. Soligo was in my best. Our defense was awesom. All played well.

 

[Pugsley]

Ugly - me writing Milera off, played a ripper today.
Gut running from a switched on team.
Seeing the fanatic pressure in the fwd line live is magic.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Loved our tackling ferocity.

 

[Bearded Clam]

You know the difference between a goal assist and a score involvement right? One is the disposal immediately prior to the goal, the other is any disposal in an unbroken set of disposals that results in a score.

Its crazy though isnt it arrowman…
and therein lies the reason why i think it is just another bullshit stat..

So player 1 handballs to player 2 who handballs to player 3 who goals..

1 player gets a score involvement and 1 gets a goal assist!..

Bahahaha.. what an absolute load of meningless horseshit clearly thought up by fxxkn morons with boring lives..

Both player 1 and player 2 handballed the fxxkn ball and a goal was created from it.

Why treat the very same actions differently just because 1 occurs immediately before the goal is kicked?..

 

[Danger in Texas]

Its crazy though isnt it arrowman…
and therein lies the reason why i think it is just another bullshit stat..

So player 1 handballs to player 2 who handballs to player 3 who goals..

1 player gets a score involvement and 1 gets a goal assist!..

Bahahaha.. what an absolute load of meningless horseshit clearly thought up by fxxkn morons with boring lives..

Both player 1 and player 2 handballed the fxxkn ball and a goal was created from it.

Why treat the very same actions differently just because 1 occurs immediately before the goal is kicked?..

I’d love to hear your thoughts on Gryan Miers

One goal as a forward for the year, but Cats supporters love him